4 ms·

Where to start? >> "as someone whose salary is only five figured" That's a pretty huge range from very poor to quite well off, without being more specific it'

Where to start? >> "as someone whose salary is only five figured" That's a pretty huge range from very poor to quite well off, without being more specific it's hard to judge any of the claims the author makes. >> "I don't think I'm asking for much, I only want a secure family home with a garden, enough money saved for a good pension, access to fresh air, and some peace and quiet." That's actually asking quite a lot from a city especially a huge capital city. Pretty hard to find peace and quiet in capital city - there's usually a lot going on. But to be fair in London you actually can find it in one of the many parks. Also, there aren't enough apartments/houses (hence high rents) yet you think asking for one with a garden isn't asking a lot. >> "zone 4 paying out a minimum of £1200 pcm for a 1 bed flat" Doesn't sound accurate to me. I've been looking at 1 bed flats recently in zone 2 and there are decent places going for £1300 so I'd expect zone 4 to be a lot less expensive.

Nursie 11y ago
>> That's a pretty huge range from very poor to quite well off, without being more specific it's hard to judge any of the claims the author makes. Not really, unless you're very high earning then getting what he wanted, a three+ bed house with a garden, and not so far away as to make life difficult for commuting, is very very expensive. >> That's actually asking quite a lot from a city especially a huge capital city. Pretty hard to find peace and quiet in capital city - there's usually a lot going on. But to be fair in London you actually can find it in one of the many parks. Also, there aren't enough apartments/houses (hence high rents) yet you think asking for one with a garden isn't asking a lot. That's exactly the point, in most of the country and most of the world it's not asking that much. He's reached a state where the benefits of 'city' do not outweigh the compromises one has to make to live there. If that balance is not something that's tipped for you (yet?) then cool. For many, many of us it has.
- k-mcgrady 11y ago
  >> "He's reached a state where the benefits of 'city' do not outweigh the compromises one has to make to live there." But it's like complaining water is wet. That's just the way it is. There are things cities have that smaller towns don't a vice versa.
  - Nursie 11y ago
    Part of the problem highlighted here is that it wasn't 'just the way it is' until about 15 years ago. Before that, much of London was relatively affordable to live in, for a couple of middle class professionals. Now, it's not.
    - dreamfactory2 11y ago
      And compared to 15 years previously that was also 'unaffordable' (even with the crash in the 90s)
- swombat 11y ago
  Yeah, but in one of the world's top cities, asking for a 3-bed house with garden and fresh air - wtf, why not ask for a hunting forest while you're at it? Do you ask for a 3-bed house with garden in Manhattan? Do you think a 3-bed house with garden in downtown Tokyo is just a reasonable expectation for the average person? I'd love my 3-bed house with garden just off the Champs Elysés, too, why not. Perhaps one on the space station too. London is one of the world's top cities. If you don't want to live there, fine - but don't bitch about how unfair it is that you can't get some kind of dream property in one of the most desirable places in the world, where tens if not hundreds of millions of people want to live in a space that only supports a fraction of that...
  - bpodgursky 11y ago
    If you don't think a 3 bed house (parents and two kids) and some trivial exposure to nature is a reasonable expectation for a normal worker/employee, that says something sad about this over-urbanization trend.
  - alkonaut 11y ago
    You have to be reasonable about commute times of course. What's reasonable is dependent on the city size, but a 1hr commute in either end of the work day is probably reasonable in big cities, in the biggest ones such as London, Paris or Tokyo you probably have to accept 2h (And if that isn't reasonable to you, you have to move. I could never do a 1.5 or 2h commute). I can only assume that what he meant was that it wasn't reasonable to find a 3bedroom house with a small guarden within reasonable commute distance and reasonable budget. When moving in stockholm I looked for just this, (sub 1h commute, 3bedrooms) and had to make a heatmap for public transit times in order to find the good spots. Needed to be in the orange (40minute travel) to have <1h door-to-door with a 10minute walk to/from public transport. http://commutemap.azurewebsites.net/ http://commutemap.azurewebsites.net/
  - Nursie 11y ago
    I think you've missed the point, entirely. If the city living, for you, outweighs the cramped conditions, poor air and general crowding, then you go for it you urbanite. A lot of people realise after a while that what London has to offer doesn't seem like a good value proposition. That's what the article is about.
- dreamfactory2 11y ago
  Good luck getting a house with garden in Paris, New York, Barcelona etc
notahacker 11y ago
I'd have probably started with "The London Underground advertises a seven-day service, but this is a fallacy. It is effectively out of service on weekends and bank holidays"... London has 99 problems, but absence of daytime transport at weekends ain't one.
- k-mcgrady 11y ago
  Very true. If a routes closed for maintenance there's always an alternative.

Nursie 11y ago

>> That's a pretty huge range from very poor to quite well off, without being more specific it's hard to judge any of the claims the author makes. Not really, unless you're very high earning then getting what he wanted, a three+ bed house with a garden, and not so far away as to make life difficult for commuting, is very very expensive. >> That's actually asking quite a lot from a city especially a huge capital city. Pretty hard to find peace and quiet in capital city - there's usually a lot going on. But to be fair in London you actually can find it in one of the many parks. Also, there aren't enough apartments/houses (hence high rents) yet you think asking for one with a garden isn't asking a lot. That's exactly the point, in most of the country and most of the world it's not asking that much. He's reached a state where the benefits of 'city' do not outweigh the compromises one has to make to live there. If that balance is not something that's tipped for you (yet?) then cool. For many, many of us it has.

k-mcgrady 11y ago
>> "He's reached a state where the benefits of 'city' do not outweigh the compromises one has to make to live there." But it's like complaining water is wet. That's just the way it is. There are things cities have that smaller towns don't a vice versa.
- Nursie 11y ago
  Part of the problem highlighted here is that it wasn't 'just the way it is' until about 15 years ago. Before that, much of London was relatively affordable to live in, for a couple of middle class professionals. Now, it's not.
  - dreamfactory2 11y ago
    And compared to 15 years previously that was also 'unaffordable' (even with the crash in the 90s)
swombat 11y ago
Yeah, but in one of the world's top cities, asking for a 3-bed house with garden and fresh air - wtf, why not ask for a hunting forest while you're at it? Do you ask for a 3-bed house with garden in Manhattan? Do you think a 3-bed house with garden in downtown Tokyo is just a reasonable expectation for the average person? I'd love my 3-bed house with garden just off the Champs Elysés, too, why not. Perhaps one on the space station too. London is one of the world's top cities. If you don't want to live there, fine - but don't bitch about how unfair it is that you can't get some kind of dream property in one of the most desirable places in the world, where tens if not hundreds of millions of people want to live in a space that only supports a fraction of that...
- bpodgursky 11y ago
  If you don't think a 3 bed house (parents and two kids) and some trivial exposure to nature is a reasonable expectation for a normal worker/employee, that says something sad about this over-urbanization trend.
- alkonaut 11y ago
  You have to be reasonable about commute times of course. What's reasonable is dependent on the city size, but a 1hr commute in either end of the work day is probably reasonable in big cities, in the biggest ones such as London, Paris or Tokyo you probably have to accept 2h (And if that isn't reasonable to you, you have to move. I could never do a 1.5 or 2h commute). I can only assume that what he meant was that it wasn't reasonable to find a 3bedroom house with a small guarden within reasonable commute distance and reasonable budget. When moving in stockholm I looked for just this, (sub 1h commute, 3bedrooms) and had to make a heatmap for public transit times in order to find the good spots. Needed to be in the orange (40minute travel) to have <1h door-to-door with a 10minute walk to/from public transport. http://commutemap.azurewebsites.net/ http://commutemap.azurewebsites.net/
- Nursie 11y ago
  I think you've missed the point, entirely. If the city living, for you, outweighs the cramped conditions, poor air and general crowding, then you go for it you urbanite. A lot of people realise after a while that what London has to offer doesn't seem like a good value proposition. That's what the article is about.
dreamfactory2 11y ago
Good luck getting a house with garden in Paris, New York, Barcelona etc

notahacker 11y ago

I'd have probably started with "The London Underground advertises a seven-day service, but this is a fallacy. It is effectively out of service on weekends and bank holidays"... London has 99 problems, but absence of daytime transport at weekends ain't one.

k-mcgrady 11y ago
Very true. If a routes closed for maintenance there's always an alternative.