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Latest prototype self-driving vehicles cruising around Mountain View

70 points by msoad 11y ago

deleted 11y ago
[deleted]
atallcostsky 11y ago
It looks like Google will be posting monthly reports of their self-driving cars from now on. Looks very interesting. See: http://www.google.com/selfdrivingcar/reports/ http://www.google.com/selfdrivingcar/reports/
- septerr 11y ago
  It is interesting that most of the accidents were other vehicles rear ending (or close to rear ending) their car.
- refurb 11y ago
  Is it just me, or does this incident seems like it was made worse by the autonomous mode? A Google Lexus model AV was traveling northbound on El Camino Real in autonomous mode when another vehicle traveling westbound on View Street failed to come to a stop at the stop sign at the intersection of El Camino and View Street. The other vehicle rolled through the stop sign and struck the right rear quarter panel and right rear wheel of the Google AV. Prior to the collision, the Google AV’s autonomous technology began applying the brakes in response to its detection of the other vehicle’s speed and trajectory. Just before the collision, the driver of the Google AV disengaged autonomous mode and took manual control of the vehicle in response to the application of the brakes by the Google AV’s autonomous technology. It looks like the Google Vehicle (GV) was traveling on El Camino (I'm assuming it had no stop sign), the computer saw the vehicle approaching (what should have been a stop) and hit the brakes. The driver took over (right before the collision) to stop the brakes from being applied and the car hit the rear of the GV. With out the computer controlling the speed, I wonder if the GV would have cleared the intersection already? Then again, depending when each event happened, maybe if the driver didn't take over, the GV wouldn't have been hit? Hard to tell.
  - btian 11y ago
    How about everything would have been all right if the other vehicle stopped at the stop sign?
protomyth 11y ago
"The prototypes’ speed is capped at a neighborhood-friendly 25mph" What are the speed limits of the roads the car will be driving on?
- mcintyre1994 11y ago
  I was going to ask the same - if that road in the picture is representative then surely 25 is way under the limit there?
  - mortehu 11y ago
    This looks to me like the bridge over the Caltrain track on San Antonio road: https://www.google.com/maps/@37.410117,-122.107073,3a,15y,204.67h,91.41t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1sj9Ffwl-STWxIe3ypTDYAGg!2e0!7i13312!8i6656 https://www.google.com/maps/@37.410117,-122.107073,3a,15y,20... The speed limit there is 35 mph.
    - nilkn 11y ago
      Which I assume means people are actually going 40 mph.
      - greglindahl 11y ago
        40-45, yes. I don't think drivers are going to like having all of these slow-moving vehicles around, but, it'll be good training for the cars to see how pissed off human drivers are constantly attempting to pass.
    - protomyth 11y ago
      So they won't be going with the flow of traffic?
      - greglindahl 11y ago
        No. And it's worth pointing out that the Lexus self-driving cars do drive with the flow, i.e. they speed like humans do.
bkjelden 11y ago
One thing I've noticed seeing the Lexus cars drive around Mountain View is that they're incredibly cautious. I wonder what will happen once they become more commonplace, and human drivers realize they can be incredibly aggressive around the self-driving cars - cut them off, etc - and the self driving cars will happily accommodate the human driver, except with better reaction time and precision than a human driver could ever have.
- trhway 11y ago
  >human drivers realize they can be incredibly aggressive around the self-driving cars - cut them off, etc - and the self driving cars will happily accommodate the human driver well, as my driving school instructor was saying - "Do yield to the moron".
- steckerbrett 11y ago
  It'll probably make a lot more sense when you have a majority of cars that can act as a swarm rather than having to tolerate irrational and unpredictable human drivers. I can imagine there will be eventually some sort of standard for near field communication of autonomous drivers that can give hints about behavior rather than needing to infer them. Doesn't even need to be trusted or authenticated, a driver can just make more detailed signals than the human readable yellow and red lights that we currently use. Even just being able to say that you'll be turning in 1KM would make things significantly more efficient to navigate around. It extends even further if you want to have drivers like ambulances and fire trucks to have "sudo" powers, autonomous drivers can get themselves into a formation to allow the vehicle through before it is even visible over the horizon.
- Chathamization 11y ago
  Not just other cars, but pedestrians too. It's common around here to see people trying to jam themselves into closing subway doors, often getting limbs or bags stuck in them. It's also not uncommon to see people try to help them by attempting to hold open or pry open the doors. One can imagine what some people will act like when they start to believe that cars will stop whenever they run out in front of them.
nlh 11y ago
Was discussing self-driving cars with a few colleagues on a drive the other day, and a question came up: Does anyone have a sense how the cars handle situations where traffic is being directed by a human, with hand signals, etc? I.e. a cop standing in the middle of the road, waving through cars through an intersection where there's been an accident, etc.? We pondered a few scenarios -- are they reading the hand signals? Are they judging other cars' movement? What if it's not a cop but a crazy random person who jumps into traffic and decides to play cop? We humans are remarkably good at determining "soft" things like "that guy looks crazy - let's get out of here" vs "that's a cop, I better pay attention", etc. The rabbit hole gets quite deep here...
- rabbidruster 11y ago
  I actually ran into a simple example of a challenge like this. The power went out in mountain view a few weeks ago and a bunch of stop lights stopped working. I pulled up behind the self driving car which had stopped at the disabled light. Instead of treating the light like a stop sign, the car remained stop. After 5 or so seconds stopped at the light (there were no other cars at the intersection), I honked at them. I assume someone took manual control because it started to move right after. While this situation could probably be addressed, it is a great examples of challenges these cars may come across.
  - ikeboy 11y ago
    That's why they get tested for years before being sold; so almost every possible situation comes up at least once and can be included in the system. I bet that driver filed a note about what happened and it was fixed soon.
    - scrollaway 11y ago
      Woah. What do you think actually went down, there? "Hey, of course, let's just implement the StopHandler::HumanStopSign() subroutine, thanks for the report!"?
      - 11y ago
msoad 11y ago
One way that Google can launch its driverless Uber is by using remote drivers that can take over once the program can't decide what to do...
- eru 11y ago
  It depends on the legal framework.
jliptzin 11y ago
Looks like the Howard.
shpx 11y ago
I don't mean to troll, but I really hope that that is not the final look of the car. Looks like one of those toy red and yellow cars [0]. Such an amazing engineering achievement deserves a more serious, futuristic look. [0] https://s-media-cache-ak0.pinimg.com/736x/2c/7b/4b/2c7b4b50b3e4cc44b0b4a7f341b419c6.jpg https://s-media-cache-ak0.pinimg.com/736x/2c/7b/4b/2c7b4b50b...
- lotu 11y ago
  This was something that Elon Musk really got right with Tesla, he made it a point for his cars to have sex appeal. His model names are even S3X. On the other hand I think this little car is probably going to be geared to the elderly or the disabled who would not be able to drive a regular car, so in that case sex appeal might not matter that much.
  - a_c_s 11y ago
    I think "cute and harmless" is actually the right approach for these cars, at least while they are in development. It is harder to project fears of unsafe, dangerous, menacing AI on something that looks likes a kid's toy. Once autonomous cars are for sale and established in the market then I totally agree with you.
    - gammarator 11y ago
      Reminds me of this: New Yorkers will help a cute but hapless robot get where it's trying to go: http://www.tweenbots.com/ http://www.tweenbots.com/
dzhiurgis 11y ago
> the same fleet that has self-driven over 1 million miles since we started the project Of which only a fraction was in self driving mode. They spent 1 million miles learning the model.
- EmployedRussian 11y ago
  You are mistaken: "We’ve self-driven over 1 million miles" http://www.google.com/selfdrivingcar/where/ http://www.google.com/selfdrivingcar/where/ (The total miles driven in both manual and self-driving mode is closer to 2 million miles I believe.)
  - dzhiurgis 11y ago
    Ok, there was an article previously that I've misinterpreted. From their monthly report: > Autonomous mode: 1,011,338 miles > Manual mode: 796,250 miles
    - toomuchtodo 11y ago
      I asked why they don't include the miles their algorithms have trained on using simulated driving, and one of their safety drivers emailed me back and said they'd consider it.

70 points by msoad 11y ago

deleted 11y ago

[deleted]

It looks like Google will be posting monthly reports of their self-driving cars from now on. Looks very interesting. See: http://www.google.com/selfdrivingcar/reports/ http://www.google.com/selfdrivingcar/reports/

septerr 11y ago
It is interesting that most of the accidents were other vehicles rear ending (or close to rear ending) their car.
refurb 11y ago
Is it just me, or does this incident seems like it was made worse by the autonomous mode? A Google Lexus model AV was traveling northbound on El Camino Real in autonomous mode when another vehicle traveling westbound on View Street failed to come to a stop at the stop sign at the intersection of El Camino and View Street. The other vehicle rolled through the stop sign and struck the right rear quarter panel and right rear wheel of the Google AV. Prior to the collision, the Google AV’s autonomous technology began applying the brakes in response to its detection of the other vehicle’s speed and trajectory. Just before the collision, the driver of the Google AV disengaged autonomous mode and took manual control of the vehicle in response to the application of the brakes by the Google AV’s autonomous technology. It looks like the Google Vehicle (GV) was traveling on El Camino (I'm assuming it had no stop sign), the computer saw the vehicle approaching (what should have been a stop) and hit the brakes. The driver took over (right before the collision) to stop the brakes from being applied and the car hit the rear of the GV. With out the computer controlling the speed, I wonder if the GV would have cleared the intersection already? Then again, depending when each event happened, maybe if the driver didn't take over, the GV wouldn't have been hit? Hard to tell.
- btian 11y ago
  How about everything would have been all right if the other vehicle stopped at the stop sign?

protomyth 11y ago

"The prototypes’ speed is capped at a neighborhood-friendly 25mph" What are the speed limits of the roads the car will be driving on?

mcintyre1994 11y ago
I was going to ask the same - if that road in the picture is representative then surely 25 is way under the limit there?
- mortehu 11y ago
  This looks to me like the bridge over the Caltrain track on San Antonio road: https://www.google.com/maps/@37.410117,-122.107073,3a,15y,204.67h,91.41t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1sj9Ffwl-STWxIe3ypTDYAGg!2e0!7i13312!8i6656 https://www.google.com/maps/@37.410117,-122.107073,3a,15y,20... The speed limit there is 35 mph.
  - nilkn 11y ago
    Which I assume means people are actually going 40 mph.
    - greglindahl 11y ago
      40-45, yes. I don't think drivers are going to like having all of these slow-moving vehicles around, but, it'll be good training for the cars to see how pissed off human drivers are constantly attempting to pass.
  - protomyth 11y ago
    So they won't be going with the flow of traffic?
    - greglindahl 11y ago
      No. And it's worth pointing out that the Lexus self-driving cars do drive with the flow, i.e. they speed like humans do.

bkjelden 11y ago

One thing I've noticed seeing the Lexus cars drive around Mountain View is that they're incredibly cautious. I wonder what will happen once they become more commonplace, and human drivers realize they can be incredibly aggressive around the self-driving cars - cut them off, etc - and the self driving cars will happily accommodate the human driver, except with better reaction time and precision than a human driver could ever have.

trhway 11y ago
>human drivers realize they can be incredibly aggressive around the self-driving cars - cut them off, etc - and the self driving cars will happily accommodate the human driver well, as my driving school instructor was saying - "Do yield to the moron".
steckerbrett 11y ago
It'll probably make a lot more sense when you have a majority of cars that can act as a swarm rather than having to tolerate irrational and unpredictable human drivers. I can imagine there will be eventually some sort of standard for near field communication of autonomous drivers that can give hints about behavior rather than needing to infer them. Doesn't even need to be trusted or authenticated, a driver can just make more detailed signals than the human readable yellow and red lights that we currently use. Even just being able to say that you'll be turning in 1KM would make things significantly more efficient to navigate around. It extends even further if you want to have drivers like ambulances and fire trucks to have "sudo" powers, autonomous drivers can get themselves into a formation to allow the vehicle through before it is even visible over the horizon.
Chathamization 11y ago
Not just other cars, but pedestrians too. It's common around here to see people trying to jam themselves into closing subway doors, often getting limbs or bags stuck in them. It's also not uncommon to see people try to help them by attempting to hold open or pry open the doors. One can imagine what some people will act like when they start to believe that cars will stop whenever they run out in front of them.

nlh 11y ago

Was discussing self-driving cars with a few colleagues on a drive the other day, and a question came up: Does anyone have a sense how the cars handle situations where traffic is being directed by a human, with hand signals, etc? I.e. a cop standing in the middle of the road, waving through cars through an intersection where there's been an accident, etc.? We pondered a few scenarios -- are they reading the hand signals? Are they judging other cars' movement? What if it's not a cop but a crazy random person who jumps into traffic and decides to play cop? We humans are remarkably good at determining "soft" things like "that guy looks crazy - let's get out of here" vs "that's a cop, I better pay attention", etc. The rabbit hole gets quite deep here...

rabbidruster 11y ago
I actually ran into a simple example of a challenge like this. The power went out in mountain view a few weeks ago and a bunch of stop lights stopped working. I pulled up behind the self driving car which had stopped at the disabled light. Instead of treating the light like a stop sign, the car remained stop. After 5 or so seconds stopped at the light (there were no other cars at the intersection), I honked at them. I assume someone took manual control because it started to move right after. While this situation could probably be addressed, it is a great examples of challenges these cars may come across.
- ikeboy 11y ago
  That's why they get tested for years before being sold; so almost every possible situation comes up at least once and can be included in the system. I bet that driver filed a note about what happened and it was fixed soon.
  - scrollaway 11y ago
    Woah. What do you think actually went down, there? "Hey, of course, let's just implement the StopHandler::HumanStopSign() subroutine, thanks for the report!"?
    - 11y ago

msoad 11y ago

One way that Google can launch its driverless Uber is by using remote drivers that can take over once the program can't decide what to do...

eru 11y ago
It depends on the legal framework.

jliptzin 11y ago

Looks like the Howard.

shpx 11y ago

I don't mean to troll, but I really hope that that is not the final look of the car. Looks like one of those toy red and yellow cars [0]. Such an amazing engineering achievement deserves a more serious, futuristic look. [0] https://s-media-cache-ak0.pinimg.com/736x/2c/7b/4b/2c7b4b50b3e4cc44b0b4a7f341b419c6.jpg https://s-media-cache-ak0.pinimg.com/736x/2c/7b/4b/2c7b4b50b...

lotu 11y ago
This was something that Elon Musk really got right with Tesla, he made it a point for his cars to have sex appeal. His model names are even S3X. On the other hand I think this little car is probably going to be geared to the elderly or the disabled who would not be able to drive a regular car, so in that case sex appeal might not matter that much.
- a_c_s 11y ago
  I think "cute and harmless" is actually the right approach for these cars, at least while they are in development. It is harder to project fears of unsafe, dangerous, menacing AI on something that looks likes a kid's toy. Once autonomous cars are for sale and established in the market then I totally agree with you.
  - gammarator 11y ago
    Reminds me of this: New Yorkers will help a cute but hapless robot get where it's trying to go: http://www.tweenbots.com/ http://www.tweenbots.com/

dzhiurgis 11y ago

> the same fleet that has self-driven over 1 million miles since we started the project Of which only a fraction was in self driving mode. They spent 1 million miles learning the model.

EmployedRussian 11y ago
You are mistaken: "We’ve self-driven over 1 million miles" http://www.google.com/selfdrivingcar/where/ http://www.google.com/selfdrivingcar/where/ (The total miles driven in both manual and self-driving mode is closer to 2 million miles I believe.)
- dzhiurgis 11y ago
  Ok, there was an article previously that I've misinterpreted. From their monthly report: > Autonomous mode: 1,011,338 miles > Manual mode: 796,250 miles
  - toomuchtodo 11y ago
    I asked why they don't include the miles their algorithms have trained on using simulated driving, and one of their safety drivers emailed me back and said they'd consider it.