2 ms·
I will give a Greeks view, backed by some facts, then I'll express my opinion about what happened in Germany. Greece was never asked to take any burden. It was
by atmosx 11y ago
I will give a Greeks view, backed by some facts, then I'll express my opinion about what happened in Germany. Greece was never asked to take any burden. It was exploited and it's still being heavily exploited because it's politicians allowed this. Modern Greece is a protectorate. It has always been like that. It's political class has always acted as a low-level lackey more than anything else. Of course the population is to blame too, but with so much misinformation receive by the tightly controlled media (Press Freedom Index says Greece is 99th bellow Kyrgyzstan and Gabon - no offense to these countries) by a small oligarchy, it's only natural that the average Greek doesn't really know what's happening.
SOME FACTS
The "bail-outs" Greece received where the largest ones, but they were never meant to help Greece. They were made in order to save German and French banks. Less than 10% from the money received so far stayed in Greece. These money were issued in order for Greece to pay high-yielding bonds to Franco-German banks, until these banks were able to dump their bonds to the ECB. Basically they made a private debt (held by bankers) public (now is held by the ECB and by extension by EU tax-payers.). The result for Greece was that the public debt rose and sacrifices went largely unnoticed.
The German's gov choice for a Greek technocrat PM was, Loukas Papademos. He acted as a middleman between the Simitis government and Goldman Sachs. Isn't that a weird choice, from a country who accuses Greece of false statistics? I'd say it's weird.
Christoforakos was not extradited to Greece[1] from Germany. I'd say that this again is a weird choice from someone who is taking a "moral" stance towards Greece, wouldn't you?
I think Germany exploited Greece in every possible way, like getting paid for non-working submarines. Bribing politicians to get corporate contracts, etc. Add to that 1945 (second WW) German atrocities to all that, which is a theme revived by far-right and far-left political and social groups and you see the pictures. Some say that WWII doesn't matter, but I'd say that it's hard to swallow for people who saw their entire families annihilated and they're still alive[3].
You could say that in the end of the day, it's Greece fault. But that's partly true. Greece has it's own faults, of course, who doesn't? But in many situations, it was never given a real choice, because in the bigger picture, Greece "matters" way more than it would be optimal.
Also here, we have to understand, that Greece has 400 years of Turkish occupation that left an incredibly strong cultural sign. Greece is literally a mix between western and eastern culture and this is something that takes many generations to change.
By all means, Greeks work more hours on average than any other European[4]. Yet they are mostly seen as "lazy". Again that's not the EU's fault. Greece has a prime minister who literally took a tour of around Europe stating that "Greeks are lazy, tax evaders" (George Papandreou).
ABOUT GERMANY
Angela Merkel's 2009 victory was largely based on the promise that "Greeks will pay" for their "bad attitude". This "hate speech" (she literally called Greeks "lazy" among other negative terms) let to the largest CDU victory in their history. And she delivered, I mean Greece has already collapsed, the only who doesn't know are people getting informed from the TV.
At the same times - as other people noted - German exports boomed. Unemployment in Germany became record low, because having countries like the PIGS inside the EU drove the EURO exchange rate down and Germany exploited the situation. It even borrowed money to Greece with a "lower" interest rate (which morally speaking, it's like raping a dead woman.. but anyway).
After SYRIZA came to power, populist German media (mainly Bild, but not only) fueled the feeling that "Greece is a household of people who party day and night and pass the bill to them". Merkel found herself against the wall because IMHO she would very much like to end this crisis with a debt-restructing and a New Deal for Greece... Because the numbers are not that big and ultimately the Euro is very positive for Germany, but how do you explain to your voters that you were lying all these years? That's impossible. Every time Merkel (it's Brussels but the quarrel is perceived between Germany and Greece mostly) gives away something the opposition attacks, every time she stands 'firm' she risks finding herself in uncharted waters bringing Greece closer to default.
In the end of the day the problem was never financial. The problem is/was political. SYRIZA is in the same position: If it blinks it looses the majority overnight, if it doesn't it will have to manage an extremely difficult situation (at least in the short-term, but will it survive?).
[1] https://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Michael_Christoforakos https://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Michael_Christoforakos
[2] http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/10895239/Greece-sues-for-7-billion-euros-over-German-submarines-that-have-never-sailed.html http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/10895239/Greece-su...
[3] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Distomo_massacre https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Distomo_massacre
[4] http://www.theguardian.com/news/datablog/2011/dec/08/europe-working-hours http://www.theguardian.com/news/datablog/2011/dec/08/europe-...
- Pyxl101 11y agoIt seems like the problem is at least partly financial. Greece lived beyond its means for years, running a significant trade deficit. The government did not take appropriate steps for the country to live within its means. The link that you provided about the submarines demonstrates significant irresponsible spending: Greece had twice as many tanks as UK. Why did it buy four new submarines? Did it not at least consider cutting all that pointless military spending? It also seems like there's a lot of corruption and irresponsible financial policy. For example, Greece's ridiculous policies around early retirement, such as that allow hairdressers, radio or television anchors, and musicians playing wind isntruments to retire at 50 for women, and 55 for men, due to "hazardous working conditions". http://www.nytimes.com/2010/03/12/business/global/12pension.html http://www.nytimes.com/2010/03/12/business/global/12pension.... http://www.theguardian.com/business/2015/jun/15/unsustainable-futures-greece-pensions-dilemma-explained-financial-crisis-default-eurozone http://www.theguardian.com/business/2015/jun/15/unsustainabl... A starting point would be predominately eliminating early retirement, and raising the retirement age to one similar to other countries. It seems like Syriza has been refusing to do that, because the Greek population is pushing them to keep these policies in place. Germany, by comparison, raised its retirement age to 67 years and Spain has done the same. They're talking about raising it to 69. It's understandable if German taxpayers are reluctant to fund Greeks' early retirement (on average, the lowest in Europe). If Greece and the Greek government wants to embrace reforms, then they need to end corruption and put reasonable policies in place. To be fair, the current article has Greece's finance minister proposing to end early retirement. But, why is this being proposed at the 11th hour, right before default? Why is this part of their proposal to receive further loans, rather than an a voluntary sovereign action that's obviously necessary to correct their economy (independent from any loans)? The fact that Greece hasn't already taken steps like these to reform their economy, and is essentially holding the reforms hostage on further loans, is surely part of the reason why Greece's partners don't trust them. Greece should have put these reforms in place long ago by their own accord. They should have done it in a way that's clearly advertised to their own taxpayers as Greek responsibility for Greek spending, rather than positioning it as part of an agreement that, no doubt, they will say was "forced" on them. All of these facts together give the impression that Greece isn't committed to doing the right thing. Greece's irresponsible spending and financial policy are the responsibility of its government and people. If Greeks want to keep retiring early, OK, but it's understandable that the rest of the Eurozone doesn't want to provide them loans used to fund those pensions.