4 ms·

"Russian government" and "freedom effort" in the same sentence. Screenshot, print, frame, hang on wall.

by finnjohnsen2 11y ago

_yosefk 11y ago
Hang it near the screenshot of Edward Snowden getting political asylum in Russia.
- kaufland 11y ago
  Snowden's status in Russia is more that of a pet, or a trophy -- up for trade at any moment, for a high enough price -- than that of a political refugee. And he knows it, which is why he's trying to GTHO of there (even at the price of a reasonably short prison sentence in the U.S.).
  - _yosefk 11y ago
    I was joking (could I say deadpanning?), the serious part being that Snowden showed a need for freedom from US-made software (regardless of citizens' freedoms), and that the rest of the world tries hard to look so bad that it makes Russia look better than it deserves.
- adventured 11y ago
  I wonder what Russia would have done to him, had he been a Russian citizen leaking / revealing vast amounts of their classified information. Pretty obvious what would have happened, and it's also obvious why Russia gave him asylum. There's a reason Snowden would leave Russia at the earliest possibility.
  - k-mcgrady 11y ago
    They would have done the same as the US.
    - adventured 11y ago
      Plus or minus some polonium. Assassinations aren't uncommon in Russia among the opposition. I'm skeptical Russia would allow someone like William Binney to walk around saying the things he has been for years. Or that Russia wouldn't essentially rig a sentence up for someone like Daniel Ellsberg, given Russia's extraordinarily corrupt justice system.
      - k-mcgrady 11y ago
        I'm no conspiracy theorist but if Snowden hadn't have gone public so quickly I believe he would be dead or disappeared. It's easy to look at the horrible things countries like Russia have done/do but let's not forget things like illegal rendition and torture that the US has done with the backing of other major countries.
- deleted 11y ago
  [deleted]
ommunist 11y ago
Believe it or not, Russia today is very free country with very good life for an average Joe, comparing to the UK. And ReactOS story is just another proof of that.
- tdees40 11y ago
  As long as you're not gay.
  - Demiurge 11y ago
    The same way you're not free being game in a religiously conservative population that did not undergo sexual revolution of the 60s. Gay people are not hunted and jailed like someone might want you believe. In regards to gay freedoms, Russia is where US was in the 80s, things are changing.
- yosefk 11y ago
  Erm... your definition of "free" and "good" ought to be fairly unusual to believe that statement. I think the likelihood of a UK journalist to be murdered by the UK government is 10000x smaller than the analogous probability in Russia. As to "very good life" - while quality is subjective, the quantity of life the average Joe is expected to have (aka life expectancy) is certainly less than it is in the UK. And to reply to a sister comment - you don't have to be gay to run into various trouble you wouldn't expect to run into in the West, though being one will likely make matters worse.
  - Demiurge 11y ago
    You'r belief on the likelihood probability is not factual, it's based on claims of a side in geopolitical confrontation, the one you choose to believe, because that's where you live. It is certainly true that standard of living is lower in Russia, but is better than many other countries you consider "free".
    - yosefk 11y ago
      Even though it's beside the point, I personally was born in Russia. A lot of Russian journalists opposing the government were murdered, for instance: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anna_Politkovskaya https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anna_Politkovskaya When you demand "facts", do you demand definite proof that the government did it (a bloody hard thing to obtain in the case of a murdering government), or are you claiming that the UK murders a similar amount of journalists? As to "countries that I consider free" - I don't know where you get insight into my thinking; I was talking specifically about the UK which the grandparent brought up. I have to admit that I'm sick and tired of relativism brought to a point where black and white are supposed to be indistinguishable. Seriously, who'd you rather fuck with, the Putin government or the current UK government? I think we all know the answer. Why are people wishing to sound "objective" so eager to ignore the obvious?
Demiurge 11y ago
I know you're just making a joke, but obviously Russia is not free from vendor lock-in any more than any country. Even ignoring the context, Russia is more free than US in anarchical sense, as you can do more things without repercussions there than in US. US jails population vastly outnumbers Russias, and you don't need a fishing license in Russia :)
- drzaiusapelord 11y ago
  >Russia is more free than US in anarchical sense, as you can do more things without repercussions there than in US. That is very questionable. Try being gay in Russia and then tell me how free you are. It wont be the government oppressing you usually (oh they will - see Pussy Riot) it'll be your neighbors, employers, cops, etc. There are other "oppressors" than rule of law, there's also mob mentalities. Russia is also very low on any human/political freedom index. Yeah, and bragging about shitty wildlife conservationism isn't impressive either. Reminds me of the Chinese who are patriotic, then don a mask to not breath in the filthy polluted air they live with.
  - pgeorgi 11y ago
    It's not all that hard to find such examples for any country in the world. Try being black in South Carolina. [to add: I have no interest in defending Russia, and no skin in the game. However the cheap shots annoy me]
    - drzaiusapelord 11y ago
      You can nitpick all you want. Russia is ranked 57 on the Human Development Index, while the US is 4 and the top 10 dominated by western countries whose values Russians hate. Theres no comparison here and its disingenuous to play up a horrible autocracy like Russia as some wonderful place, although, its sadly, upvote heaven on HN.
  - kushti 11y ago
    How much time have you spent in Russia? I have a feeling all your "knowledge" is from the western media, means you have been totally mislead in this life.

"Russian government" and "freedom effort" in the same sentence. Screenshot, print, frame, hang on wall.

_yosefk 11y ago

Hang it near the screenshot of Edward Snowden getting political asylum in Russia.

kaufland 11y ago
Snowden's status in Russia is more that of a pet, or a trophy -- up for trade at any moment, for a high enough price -- than that of a political refugee. And he knows it, which is why he's trying to GTHO of there (even at the price of a reasonably short prison sentence in the U.S.).
- _yosefk 11y ago
  I was joking (could I say deadpanning?), the serious part being that Snowden showed a need for freedom from US-made software (regardless of citizens' freedoms), and that the rest of the world tries hard to look so bad that it makes Russia look better than it deserves.
adventured 11y ago
I wonder what Russia would have done to him, had he been a Russian citizen leaking / revealing vast amounts of their classified information. Pretty obvious what would have happened, and it's also obvious why Russia gave him asylum. There's a reason Snowden would leave Russia at the earliest possibility.
- k-mcgrady 11y ago
  They would have done the same as the US.
  - adventured 11y ago
    Plus or minus some polonium. Assassinations aren't uncommon in Russia among the opposition. I'm skeptical Russia would allow someone like William Binney to walk around saying the things he has been for years. Or that Russia wouldn't essentially rig a sentence up for someone like Daniel Ellsberg, given Russia's extraordinarily corrupt justice system.
    - k-mcgrady 11y ago
      I'm no conspiracy theorist but if Snowden hadn't have gone public so quickly I believe he would be dead or disappeared. It's easy to look at the horrible things countries like Russia have done/do but let's not forget things like illegal rendition and torture that the US has done with the backing of other major countries.
deleted 11y ago
[deleted]

ommunist 11y ago

Believe it or not, Russia today is very free country with very good life for an average Joe, comparing to the UK. And ReactOS story is just another proof of that.

tdees40 11y ago
As long as you're not gay.
- Demiurge 11y ago
  The same way you're not free being game in a religiously conservative population that did not undergo sexual revolution of the 60s. Gay people are not hunted and jailed like someone might want you believe. In regards to gay freedoms, Russia is where US was in the 80s, things are changing.
yosefk 11y ago
Erm... your definition of "free" and "good" ought to be fairly unusual to believe that statement. I think the likelihood of a UK journalist to be murdered by the UK government is 10000x smaller than the analogous probability in Russia. As to "very good life" - while quality is subjective, the quantity of life the average Joe is expected to have (aka life expectancy) is certainly less than it is in the UK. And to reply to a sister comment - you don't have to be gay to run into various trouble you wouldn't expect to run into in the West, though being one will likely make matters worse.
- Demiurge 11y ago
  You'r belief on the likelihood probability is not factual, it's based on claims of a side in geopolitical confrontation, the one you choose to believe, because that's where you live. It is certainly true that standard of living is lower in Russia, but is better than many other countries you consider "free".
  - yosefk 11y ago
    Even though it's beside the point, I personally was born in Russia. A lot of Russian journalists opposing the government were murdered, for instance: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anna_Politkovskaya https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anna_Politkovskaya When you demand "facts", do you demand definite proof that the government did it (a bloody hard thing to obtain in the case of a murdering government), or are you claiming that the UK murders a similar amount of journalists? As to "countries that I consider free" - I don't know where you get insight into my thinking; I was talking specifically about the UK which the grandparent brought up. I have to admit that I'm sick and tired of relativism brought to a point where black and white are supposed to be indistinguishable. Seriously, who'd you rather fuck with, the Putin government or the current UK government? I think we all know the answer. Why are people wishing to sound "objective" so eager to ignore the obvious?

Demiurge 11y ago

I know you're just making a joke, but obviously Russia is not free from vendor lock-in any more than any country. Even ignoring the context, Russia is more free than US in anarchical sense, as you can do more things without repercussions there than in US. US jails population vastly outnumbers Russias, and you don't need a fishing license in Russia :)

drzaiusapelord 11y ago
>Russia is more free than US in anarchical sense, as you can do more things without repercussions there than in US. That is very questionable. Try being gay in Russia and then tell me how free you are. It wont be the government oppressing you usually (oh they will - see Pussy Riot) it'll be your neighbors, employers, cops, etc. There are other "oppressors" than rule of law, there's also mob mentalities. Russia is also very low on any human/political freedom index. Yeah, and bragging about shitty wildlife conservationism isn't impressive either. Reminds me of the Chinese who are patriotic, then don a mask to not breath in the filthy polluted air they live with.
- pgeorgi 11y ago
  It's not all that hard to find such examples for any country in the world. Try being black in South Carolina. [to add: I have no interest in defending Russia, and no skin in the game. However the cheap shots annoy me]
  - drzaiusapelord 11y ago
    You can nitpick all you want. Russia is ranked 57 on the Human Development Index, while the US is 4 and the top 10 dominated by western countries whose values Russians hate. Theres no comparison here and its disingenuous to play up a horrible autocracy like Russia as some wonderful place, although, its sadly, upvote heaven on HN.
- kushti 11y ago
  How much time have you spent in Russia? I have a feeling all your "knowledge" is from the western media, means you have been totally mislead in this life.