7 ms·

I'm no grade A programmer. Yes, I know all the sorting algorithms and graph theory and all that. I can work effectively in a continuous development scrum base

I'm no grade A programmer. Yes, I know all the sorting algorithms and graph theory and all that. I can work effectively in a continuous development scrum based environment. I know .net and all the popular browser stacks. I can engineer dimensional ETL warehouses. Yada yada... Everyone can at this point. What made me really famous in my little circle was my ability to do really fast problem mitigation. While all the other hardcore devs were freaking out due to all the stress of having to work and communicate directly with management while dealing with rapidfire requirement changes, I took it all in stride and just got it done. My reputation was this: if I was on the case, it got done on time and with a smile... period. No one in any interview I've ever had was interested in that skill set. They only wanted to know about old school algorithm skills and how fluent I was with popular frameworks. It's as if upper management actually believes that my project management skills are irrelevant because hey! they've got project managers and staff for those. Why would a dev need it! Oh, and I don't have a college degree. So, good bye... NEXT CANDIDATE! Sorry...I ranted.

jacquesm 11y ago
You sound like a 'grade A programmer' to me!
- FrankenPC 11y ago
  The bar for "grade A" is REALLY freakin high. I'm not talking about applying for low level dev positions. I only apply for senior or higher positions. Autodidacts like me are no longer interesting to companies.
  - jacquesm 11y ago
    Not all companies. There are definitely places that are looking for your talents and that know how to appreciate them. Getting the job done in time and with a smile is a very large asset and should lead to some really good references. I'd avoid applying for positions directly but concentrate on leveraging your network of past employers who will always know more people in the position of needing someone to simply deliver the goods. Applying for positions directly will work against you because you are setting yourself up for comparison in a way that does not show off your most valuable skills.
  - eru 11y ago
    Google is definitely interested in that.
    - zo1 11y ago
      Last time I checked, most of their programming job postings had something along the lines of "Minimum: Tertiary Qualification/Degree ; Preferred: PHD/Masters".
      - eru 11y ago
        I work for them without a degree.
  - spacecowboy_lon 11y ago
    Unfortunately I think the industry has to many in it that are just doing it for the $$ and learned their skils by rote and hence are recruiting people like them.
greenyoda 11y ago
"Everyone can at this point." I think you're dramatically over-estimating the competence of the average programmer. "No one in any interview I've ever had was interested in that skill set. They only wanted to know about old school algorithm skills and how fluent I was with popular frameworks." What kind of companies have you been interviewing at? My guess is that companies with established products that customers are paying for would be very interested in someone who can quickly address customers' problems.
- FrankenPC 11y ago
  Used to. Not anymore. I feel like I'm the last of the old school waterfall experts. Everyone wants lockstep scrum only continuous development. I can do that, but then I have to get past the lack of a formal education and ultimately I'm only offered mid level positions.
danieltillett 11y ago
I am also not a “rock star” developer and I would have no chance of answering all the language trivia questions in an interview, but despite this I have managed to solve complex problems that nobody else seemed to be able to. On the topic of language trivia is there anyone out there that can keep it all in their head? I only spend about 25% of my time writing code and I need to work in 5 languages (C, Java, JavaScript, PHP and ObjC) on 5 different platforms (Linux, Windows, MacOS, iOS and Android). I find it impossible to keep more than a limited amount of all the detail in my brain at any time. How do you geniuses do it?
- Animats 11y ago
  That drives me nuts. Too often I put a semicolon in Python or fail to use one in Go.
- dsp1234 11y ago
  I work on a daily basis in javascript (server side jscript and node, and client side browser/extensions), vbscript, php and t-sql (and occasionally golang and ruby). I mostly handle it by trying to stay in one "mode" for as long as possible. For example, I'll try to get all of my vbscript code done first, then the j(ava)script interop code, which are both server side, then I'll write the needed database code, then move to working in the browser once I have a stable api to work with. I try not to mix them unless I'm doing maintenance that requires slicing through all the layers. I keep the documentation for all of the systems open so that I can quickly reference the stuff I forget. I just try to keep the major stuff "in cache", and then I remember the broad strokes and look that stuff up when needed. In addition to the official documentation, I have a directory of old code examples that I can lean on when I have to remember how to do some uncommon or rare things. Even then, I still often use brackets in my vbscript and "end functions" in my javascript/php code. It's just a hazard of working in multiple languages environments that I've learned to live with.
  - danieltillett 11y ago
    This is pretty much the way I work too, but I find it hard to block in a good amount of time just in one language. One thing I have found is that having separate monitors and keyboards for the different languages help me. I have a bank of them set up on a long bench and I slide from one to the other as needed. When I use this approach I am able to get back into the swing much faster than switching desktops on the one monitor/keyboard setup. There is something about changing the physical set up that helps me switch mentally.

jacquesm 11y ago

You sound like a 'grade A programmer' to me!

FrankenPC 11y ago
The bar for "grade A" is REALLY freakin high. I'm not talking about applying for low level dev positions. I only apply for senior or higher positions. Autodidacts like me are no longer interesting to companies.
- jacquesm 11y ago
  Not all companies. There are definitely places that are looking for your talents and that know how to appreciate them. Getting the job done in time and with a smile is a very large asset and should lead to some really good references. I'd avoid applying for positions directly but concentrate on leveraging your network of past employers who will always know more people in the position of needing someone to simply deliver the goods. Applying for positions directly will work against you because you are setting yourself up for comparison in a way that does not show off your most valuable skills.
- eru 11y ago
  Google is definitely interested in that.
  - zo1 11y ago
    Last time I checked, most of their programming job postings had something along the lines of "Minimum: Tertiary Qualification/Degree ; Preferred: PHD/Masters".
    - eru 11y ago
      I work for them without a degree.
- spacecowboy_lon 11y ago
  Unfortunately I think the industry has to many in it that are just doing it for the $$ and learned their skils by rote and hence are recruiting people like them.

greenyoda 11y ago

"Everyone can at this point." I think you're dramatically over-estimating the competence of the average programmer. "No one in any interview I've ever had was interested in that skill set. They only wanted to know about old school algorithm skills and how fluent I was with popular frameworks." What kind of companies have you been interviewing at? My guess is that companies with established products that customers are paying for would be very interested in someone who can quickly address customers' problems.

FrankenPC 11y ago
Used to. Not anymore. I feel like I'm the last of the old school waterfall experts. Everyone wants lockstep scrum only continuous development. I can do that, but then I have to get past the lack of a formal education and ultimately I'm only offered mid level positions.

danieltillett 11y ago

I am also not a “rock star” developer and I would have no chance of answering all the language trivia questions in an interview, but despite this I have managed to solve complex problems that nobody else seemed to be able to. On the topic of language trivia is there anyone out there that can keep it all in their head? I only spend about 25% of my time writing code and I need to work in 5 languages (C, Java, JavaScript, PHP and ObjC) on 5 different platforms (Linux, Windows, MacOS, iOS and Android). I find it impossible to keep more than a limited amount of all the detail in my brain at any time. How do you geniuses do it?

Animats 11y ago
That drives me nuts. Too often I put a semicolon in Python or fail to use one in Go.
dsp1234 11y ago
I work on a daily basis in javascript (server side jscript and node, and client side browser/extensions), vbscript, php and t-sql (and occasionally golang and ruby). I mostly handle it by trying to stay in one "mode" for as long as possible. For example, I'll try to get all of my vbscript code done first, then the j(ava)script interop code, which are both server side, then I'll write the needed database code, then move to working in the browser once I have a stable api to work with. I try not to mix them unless I'm doing maintenance that requires slicing through all the layers. I keep the documentation for all of the systems open so that I can quickly reference the stuff I forget. I just try to keep the major stuff "in cache", and then I remember the broad strokes and look that stuff up when needed. In addition to the official documentation, I have a directory of old code examples that I can lean on when I have to remember how to do some uncommon or rare things. Even then, I still often use brackets in my vbscript and "end functions" in my javascript/php code. It's just a hazard of working in multiple languages environments that I've learned to live with.
- danieltillett 11y ago
  This is pretty much the way I work too, but I find it hard to block in a good amount of time just in one language. One thing I have found is that having separate monitors and keyboards for the different languages help me. I have a bank of them set up on a long bench and I slide from one to the other as needed. When I use this approach I am able to get back into the swing much faster than switching desktops on the one monitor/keyboard setup. There is something about changing the physical set up that helps me switch mentally.