6 ms·

I wonder -- if Uber converted drivers in California to employees and dealt with the increased costs (passing them on to riders) but also prevented the now-emplo

by nugget 11y ago

I wonder -- if Uber converted drivers in California to employees and dealt with the increased costs (passing them on to riders) but also prevented the now-employed drivers from driving with competing services (Lyft) -- whether the company wouldn't actually become even more valuable than they already are. If you are driving for both services but Uber comprises 80% of your volume and Lyft 20%, it's an easy decision to make. Given that the real asset for all these sharing economy companies is their elastic work forces (drivers and cars for Uber, residents and homes for Airbnb), the CLC may have just created an entrenched monopoly without realizing it. Beyond that there is a really interesting debate as to whether sharing economy jobs are an end-run around minimum wage laws, rendering such laws meaningless for certain industries going forward. If the majority of workers are turned into 1099 consultants, but are doing effectively the same jobs (drivers, delivery people, etc) that employees did in the past, what does that mean for society?

tomasien 11y ago
There are a lot of downsides to drivers for this potentially, even beyond preventing them from driving for competing services. They also may be forced into working certain hours, which would be horrible for many Uber drivers who aren't doing it full time. I'm worried!
- viola11 11y ago
  The could equally well be forced to work certain hours before as well, by Uber deciding to just give fares to them during certain times.
- s73v3r 11y ago
  Uber punishes drivers for not working enough hours and taking enough fares in the first place.
toomuchtodo 11y ago
> Beyond that there is a really interesting debate as to whether sharing economy jobs are an end-run around minimum wage laws, rendering such laws meaningless for certain industries going forward. If the majority of workers are turned into 1099 consultants, but are doing effectively the same jobs (drivers, delivery people, etc) that employees did in the past, what does that mean for society? Please excuse my demeanor, but it means that if the "sharing" economy is really the "tech companies sidestepping worker/labor protections with no repercussions", then society is screwed.
- clarkmoody 11y ago
  What does it say about what the Uber drivers think about "worker/labor protections" that they are willing to work without those protections of their own free will? > society is screwed Please elaborate.
  - toomuchtodo 11y ago
    Labor protections are in place to ensure workers can support themselves. To subvert those regulations pushes quality of life down for a populace. Walmart is guilty of this to a lesser extent, as while they categorize their workers properly, they pay them so little that they have company-provided documentation on how to collect social benefits to supplement their income, which means we're subsidizing Walmart's labor costs directly. This will be less of a problem as the minimum wage rises across the country, and companies are held accountable for proper worker classification.
    - prostoalex 11y ago
      Wal-Mart just follows legal framework. We can certainly lobby our legal representatives to change that legal framework, but it's questionable whether raising the wage floor minimizes social benefits payout.
      - toomuchtodo 11y ago
        > Wal-Mart just follows legal framework. We can certainly lobby our legal representatives to change that legal framework Agreed. > but it's questionable whether raising the wage floor minimizes social benefits payout. Disagree. http://www.dol.gov/minwage/mythbuster.htm http://www.dol.gov/minwage/mythbuster.htm http://www.npr.org/2012/01/03/144594861/raising-the-minimum-wage-who-does-it-help http://www.npr.org/2012/01/03/144594861/raising-the-minimum-... "Increases in the minimum wage are essentially a shift from corporate profits to low-wage employees," he says. "And we know that low-wage employees spend more of their money. They're going to spend essentially every penny they get, so that increased demand is going to result in more economic activity and potentially more jobs."
viola11 11y ago
Historically the exploitation of workers has lead to the workers organizing and protesting for better rights in various ways. Usually involving in the formation of unions and creation of legislation ensuring rights for the employees. Or revolution, armed insurrection and stuff like that. Honestly, the fundamental situation is not new, only the particulars are novel.
MarkMc 11y ago
> If you are driving for both services but Uber comprises 80% of your volume and Lyft 20%, it's an easy decision to make. And if you are looking for a ride and Uber has 80% chance of having the closest available car then you are probably willing to pay a premium to use their service.
nostrademons 11y ago
The workforce becomes significantly less elastic if Uber drivers are ruled to be employees. Uber would have to pay them at least minimum wages. They'd face wrongful termination suits if they ended their business relationship with a driver. Many drivers might also drop out of the workforce if Uber had to be their sole employer - one of the big draws of becoming an Uber driver is that it's a way to earn extra money without giving up freedom.

by nugget 11y ago

tomasien 11y ago

There are a lot of downsides to drivers for this potentially, even beyond preventing them from driving for competing services. They also may be forced into working certain hours, which would be horrible for many Uber drivers who aren't doing it full time. I'm worried!

viola11 11y ago
The could equally well be forced to work certain hours before as well, by Uber deciding to just give fares to them during certain times.
s73v3r 11y ago
Uber punishes drivers for not working enough hours and taking enough fares in the first place.

toomuchtodo 11y ago

> Beyond that there is a really interesting debate as to whether sharing economy jobs are an end-run around minimum wage laws, rendering such laws meaningless for certain industries going forward. If the majority of workers are turned into 1099 consultants, but are doing effectively the same jobs (drivers, delivery people, etc) that employees did in the past, what does that mean for society? Please excuse my demeanor, but it means that if the "sharing" economy is really the "tech companies sidestepping worker/labor protections with no repercussions", then society is screwed.

clarkmoody 11y ago
What does it say about what the Uber drivers think about "worker/labor protections" that they are willing to work without those protections of their own free will? > society is screwed Please elaborate.
- toomuchtodo 11y ago
  Labor protections are in place to ensure workers can support themselves. To subvert those regulations pushes quality of life down for a populace. Walmart is guilty of this to a lesser extent, as while they categorize their workers properly, they pay them so little that they have company-provided documentation on how to collect social benefits to supplement their income, which means we're subsidizing Walmart's labor costs directly. This will be less of a problem as the minimum wage rises across the country, and companies are held accountable for proper worker classification.
  - prostoalex 11y ago
    Wal-Mart just follows legal framework. We can certainly lobby our legal representatives to change that legal framework, but it's questionable whether raising the wage floor minimizes social benefits payout.
    - toomuchtodo 11y ago
      > Wal-Mart just follows legal framework. We can certainly lobby our legal representatives to change that legal framework Agreed. > but it's questionable whether raising the wage floor minimizes social benefits payout. Disagree. http://www.dol.gov/minwage/mythbuster.htm http://www.dol.gov/minwage/mythbuster.htm http://www.npr.org/2012/01/03/144594861/raising-the-minimum-wage-who-does-it-help http://www.npr.org/2012/01/03/144594861/raising-the-minimum-... "Increases in the minimum wage are essentially a shift from corporate profits to low-wage employees," he says. "And we know that low-wage employees spend more of their money. They're going to spend essentially every penny they get, so that increased demand is going to result in more economic activity and potentially more jobs."

viola11 11y ago

Historically the exploitation of workers has lead to the workers organizing and protesting for better rights in various ways. Usually involving in the formation of unions and creation of legislation ensuring rights for the employees. Or revolution, armed insurrection and stuff like that. Honestly, the fundamental situation is not new, only the particulars are novel.

MarkMc 11y ago

> If you are driving for both services but Uber comprises 80% of your volume and Lyft 20%, it's an easy decision to make. And if you are looking for a ride and Uber has 80% chance of having the closest available car then you are probably willing to pay a premium to use their service.

nostrademons 11y ago

The workforce becomes significantly less elastic if Uber drivers are ruled to be employees. Uber would have to pay them at least minimum wages. They'd face wrongful termination suits if they ended their business relationship with a driver. Many drivers might also drop out of the workforce if Uber had to be their sole employer - one of the big draws of becoming an Uber driver is that it's a way to earn extra money without giving up freedom.