4 ms·

Discrete electronic components (resistors, capacitors, transistors, simple ICs and sensors, etc) are sort of the "assembly language" of electronics, but the vas

Discrete electronic components (resistors, capacitors, transistors, simple ICs and sensors, etc) are sort of the "assembly language" of electronics, but the vast majority of programmers never touch assembly. There have been attempts to create higher level abstractions (like Arduino "shields", etc) but the cost (time and money) to produce reusable modules is huge relative to the cost of the components, whereas CPUs are so fast the overhead of higher level languages and function calls is usually insignificant. I'm not sure what the solution is. Maybe better software, and methods of manufacturing small runs of boards?

sklogic 11y ago
My bet is on 3d-printing, probably used alongside with some kind of CV-assisted robotic assembly, with an HDL-based design toolchain. I'm trying to use a simple robotic manipulator to pick up and put electronic components and pour conductive paste to a 3d-printed board (while it is being printed). Trying to compensate a lack of mechanical precision with CV, sort of like what we do with our own imperfect fingers.
cellularmitosis 11y ago
Perhaps a solution is reducing the friction of learning the first steps beyond assembly language? These trading cards seem to be a step in the right direction (e.g. Towards the goal of learning in a few years the kind of knowledge which the old analog wizards amassed over the course of an entire career). https://www.adafruit.com/products/1474 https://www.adafruit.com/products/1474
pjc50 11y ago
Software is infinitely duplicable at zero cost. This drives a lot of its economics and society of programmers. It also means you can solve your software problems easily by adding more software. This is never going to be true of hardware. Having said that, the "shield" approach is clearly winning among the introductory and hobby market. You can buy loads of them for low cost: http://www.dx.com/p/arduno-37-in-1-sensor-module-kit-black-142834 http://www.dx.com/p/arduno-37-in-1-sensor-module-kit-black-1... Productisation is limited by regulatory effects, FCC/CE and so on.
amelius 11y ago
> Discrete electronic components are sort of the "assembly language" of electronics Yes, but to make the analogy more realistic, it is an assembly language for a relatively simple and very slow and inefficient, power-consuming processor. Nowadays, with discrete electronics components, one unfortunately cannot make fast and lean electronics like any of the big companies are making.
- vvanders 11y ago
  If you're using discrete components for digital processor, sure. However they still have a very real application in the analog domain(along with a strong understanding of discrete ICs like Opamps and Transistors).
minthd 11y ago
There are plenty of interesting electronic technologies offering programmability at a reasonable price : Xmos is offering low cost microcontroller family where you can program your digital peripherals in c. So are others. Cypress is offering programmable analog chips. Very versatile. There are extremely low cost fpgas. To is offering an mcu with programmable wireless protocols, currently only by them but maybe there's hope. For users interfaces, the phone offers a great users interface, if made accessible like simblee promises. So basically there are lots of option available but what is missing is ease of use and maybe options to combine them together.
- tlrobinson 11y ago
  Microcontrollers alone don't let you do anything a PC can't do, you need to couple them with sensors, UI, and IO.
jononor 11y ago
We need compilers, high-level languages and 'linkers'. A way to represent module interfaces, allowing multiple module implementations: from a ready-made board (like an Arduino shield), to an 'optimized' piece of an integrated board for whole system. A package manager to easily download and integrate such modules into ones project...

sklogic 11y ago

My bet is on 3d-printing, probably used alongside with some kind of CV-assisted robotic assembly, with an HDL-based design toolchain. I'm trying to use a simple robotic manipulator to pick up and put electronic components and pour conductive paste to a 3d-printed board (while it is being printed). Trying to compensate a lack of mechanical precision with CV, sort of like what we do with our own imperfect fingers.

cellularmitosis 11y ago

Perhaps a solution is reducing the friction of learning the first steps beyond assembly language? These trading cards seem to be a step in the right direction (e.g. Towards the goal of learning in a few years the kind of knowledge which the old analog wizards amassed over the course of an entire career). https://www.adafruit.com/products/1474 https://www.adafruit.com/products/1474

pjc50 11y ago

Software is infinitely duplicable at zero cost. This drives a lot of its economics and society of programmers. It also means you can solve your software problems easily by adding more software. This is never going to be true of hardware. Having said that, the "shield" approach is clearly winning among the introductory and hobby market. You can buy loads of them for low cost: http://www.dx.com/p/arduno-37-in-1-sensor-module-kit-black-142834 http://www.dx.com/p/arduno-37-in-1-sensor-module-kit-black-1... Productisation is limited by regulatory effects, FCC/CE and so on.

amelius 11y ago

> Discrete electronic components are sort of the "assembly language" of electronics Yes, but to make the analogy more realistic, it is an assembly language for a relatively simple and very slow and inefficient, power-consuming processor. Nowadays, with discrete electronics components, one unfortunately cannot make fast and lean electronics like any of the big companies are making.

vvanders 11y ago
If you're using discrete components for digital processor, sure. However they still have a very real application in the analog domain(along with a strong understanding of discrete ICs like Opamps and Transistors).

minthd 11y ago

There are plenty of interesting electronic technologies offering programmability at a reasonable price : Xmos is offering low cost microcontroller family where you can program your digital peripherals in c. So are others. Cypress is offering programmable analog chips. Very versatile. There are extremely low cost fpgas. To is offering an mcu with programmable wireless protocols, currently only by them but maybe there's hope. For users interfaces, the phone offers a great users interface, if made accessible like simblee promises. So basically there are lots of option available but what is missing is ease of use and maybe options to combine them together.

tlrobinson 11y ago
Microcontrollers alone don't let you do anything a PC can't do, you need to couple them with sensors, UI, and IO.

jononor 11y ago

We need compilers, high-level languages and 'linkers'. A way to represent module interfaces, allowing multiple module implementations: from a ready-made board (like an Arduino shield), to an 'optimized' piece of an integrated board for whole system. A package manager to easily download and integrate such modules into ones project...