10 ms·

I agree absolutely. That's why I use piwik on my sites. Unfortunately, uBlock blocks piwik all the same.

VieElm 11y ago
> uBlock blocks piwik all the same Good. I don't want to contribute to your analytics. I don't want ads. I just want to browse the web without being tracked. I don't care if that means you can't pay for your site, other sites will spring up that can without annoying users with ads and without tracking them.
- DanBC 11y ago
  But you're only blocking ads and analytics? You're not making any effort to avoid the sites that track?
  - baddox 11y ago
    Why avoid the sites that track if it's trivial to visit those sites without getting tracked?
    - DanBC 11y ago
      Some of the ad-block using crowd say that this is not about getting the content and avoiding the ads - it's just about avoiding the ads. I've started asking people who use an ad-blocker if there are any sites they no longer visit.
- Doctor_Fegg 11y ago
  The "other site" in the area I'm operating in is Google. So the situation is more like "other sites will continue to dominate by cross-subsidising from their core business, namely annoying users with ads and tracking them". Is that really what you want?
  - danso 11y ago
    No, he wants free content without any convenience to him. He doesn't care about the so-called bigger picture, just the instant gratification he's been entitled to.
    - VieElm 11y ago
      This isn't true, I'm perfectly willing to pay for content. I just don't want ads and I don't want to be tracked. Thanks to browser extensions I don't have to no matter how much that hurts your feelings. You say I'm entitled but it's actually you who isn't entitled to control how the software works on my computer. I'm perfectly willing to support business models that aren't terrible. Perhaps you might also consider users not wanting to install rootkits, spyware and adware to support content entitled? It's the same, it's a shitty experience people don't want.
      - danso 11y ago
        OK, I'll bite. So what kind of Internet content have you paid for? And how do you pay for it without being tracked? Because you know, credit cards payments transmit your personal information. Or have you successfully transitioned to a Bitcoin-only currency lifestyle?
        VieElm 11y ago
        A recurring monthly payment doesn't track my activity does it. It just tracks that I've paid for something. Many sites offer PayPal so there's no personal information conveyed at all. I pay for a lot of Twitch subs. I am currently subbed to like 7 channels. I've also payed for the NYTimes and Washington Post through Amazon's payment system. I've paid for Ars Technica. I pay for Pandora. I pay for Reddit gold. I also buy skins and mounts in free to play games like Heroes of the Storm and TF2. I pay lots. Do I meet your approval now?
        Doctor_Fegg 11y ago
        I'm sure you're not seeking my approval, but it genuinely bemuses me that you're happy for your shopping purchases to be tracked by Amazon and PayPal, two giants with a history of privacy-insensitive behaviour, yet not for individual sites to run JS-based, self-hosted, same-domain analytics simply to count whether you're one or 10 unique users within a month.
sbierwagen 11y ago
What? How? If Piwik just analyzes server logs, there should be no way for uBlock to touch it. But if by "uBlock blocks piwik" you mean "uBlock blocks the piwik javascript file" then that sounds like mission fuckin accomplished to me.
- lucideer 11y ago
  piwik is essentially a self-hosted GA. So it uses JS (like GA) but tracks to a DB on your own server so the data on your visit remains private between you and the site-owner (rather than also being provided to a third-party like Google)
- seanp2k2 11y ago
  Since I can't reply to the reply on this, piwik (the paid version) works just like GA and is offered as a SaaS where they store and analyze the data. Edit: link: https://piwik.pro https://piwik.pro
  - sbierwagen 11y ago
    So, it's bad in exactly the same way that GA is bad: it leaks user information to a third party.
    - Doctor_Fegg 11y ago
      Except we're discussing the self-hosted version here ("use whatever you want as long as it's selfhosted").
  - gpvos 11y ago
    Yes, that's Piwik Pro. Apparently "Pro" nowadays means a downgrade, or "for simpletons".
deleted 11y ago
[deleted]

> uBlock blocks piwik all the same Good. I don't want to contribute to your analytics. I don't want ads. I just want to browse the web without being tracked. I don't care if that means you can't pay for your site, other sites will spring up that can without annoying users with ads and without tracking them.

DanBC 11y ago
But you're only blocking ads and analytics? You're not making any effort to avoid the sites that track?
- baddox 11y ago
  Why avoid the sites that track if it's trivial to visit those sites without getting tracked?
  - DanBC 11y ago
    Some of the ad-block using crowd say that this is not about getting the content and avoiding the ads - it's just about avoiding the ads. I've started asking people who use an ad-blocker if there are any sites they no longer visit.
Doctor_Fegg 11y ago
The "other site" in the area I'm operating in is Google. So the situation is more like "other sites will continue to dominate by cross-subsidising from their core business, namely annoying users with ads and tracking them". Is that really what you want?
- danso 11y ago
  No, he wants free content without any convenience to him. He doesn't care about the so-called bigger picture, just the instant gratification he's been entitled to.
  - VieElm 11y ago
    This isn't true, I'm perfectly willing to pay for content. I just don't want ads and I don't want to be tracked. Thanks to browser extensions I don't have to no matter how much that hurts your feelings. You say I'm entitled but it's actually you who isn't entitled to control how the software works on my computer. I'm perfectly willing to support business models that aren't terrible. Perhaps you might also consider users not wanting to install rootkits, spyware and adware to support content entitled? It's the same, it's a shitty experience people don't want.
    - danso 11y ago
      OK, I'll bite. So what kind of Internet content have you paid for? And how do you pay for it without being tracked? Because you know, credit cards payments transmit your personal information. Or have you successfully transitioned to a Bitcoin-only currency lifestyle?
      - VieElm 11y ago
        A recurring monthly payment doesn't track my activity does it. It just tracks that I've paid for something. Many sites offer PayPal so there's no personal information conveyed at all. I pay for a lot of Twitch subs. I am currently subbed to like 7 channels. I've also payed for the NYTimes and Washington Post through Amazon's payment system. I've paid for Ars Technica. I pay for Pandora. I pay for Reddit gold. I also buy skins and mounts in free to play games like Heroes of the Storm and TF2. I pay lots. Do I meet your approval now?
        Doctor_Fegg 11y ago
        I'm sure you're not seeking my approval, but it genuinely bemuses me that you're happy for your shopping purchases to be tracked by Amazon and PayPal, two giants with a history of privacy-insensitive behaviour, yet not for individual sites to run JS-based, self-hosted, same-domain analytics simply to count whether you're one or 10 unique users within a month.

sbierwagen 11y ago

What? How? If Piwik just analyzes server logs, there should be no way for uBlock to touch it. But if by "uBlock blocks piwik" you mean "uBlock blocks the piwik javascript file" then that sounds like mission fuckin accomplished to me.

lucideer 11y ago
piwik is essentially a self-hosted GA. So it uses JS (like GA) but tracks to a DB on your own server so the data on your visit remains private between you and the site-owner (rather than also being provided to a third-party like Google)
seanp2k2 11y ago
Since I can't reply to the reply on this, piwik (the paid version) works just like GA and is offered as a SaaS where they store and analyze the data. Edit: link: https://piwik.pro https://piwik.pro
- sbierwagen 11y ago
  So, it's bad in exactly the same way that GA is bad: it leaks user information to a third party.
  - Doctor_Fegg 11y ago
    Except we're discussing the self-hosted version here ("use whatever you want as long as it's selfhosted").
- gpvos 11y ago
  Yes, that's Piwik Pro. Apparently "Pro" nowadays means a downgrade, or "for simpletons".

deleted 11y ago

[deleted]