8 ms·

goddamn, what a clusterfuck that was... Who cares if the scientist wears a shirt with some titties on it. So much teacup-hurricane outrage.

• tlear 11y ago
  It is the Exhibit A when I have to discuss SJWs with people
  • lordnacho 11y ago
    What does SJW stand for?
    • yoha 11y ago
      Social Justice Warrior
      • rimantas 11y ago
        And sadly, HN is full of them. They don't even feel the irony.
    • rkapsoro 11y ago
      "Social Justice Warrior" http://knowyourmeme.com/memes/social-justice-warrior http://knowyourmeme.com/memes/social-justice-warrior
    • ZeroGravitas 11y ago
      It's the new reactionary right-wing term for "feminazis". They belatedly realised that term made them look ridiculous It'll take them another decade or so to realise that naming your political opponents as warriors for social justice is a boneheaded move.
    • Steuard 11y ago
      It's a pejorative term meaning "social justice warrior", almost invariably intended as an insult. In my experience, there's no well-defined meaning to the term (it covers a lot of ground), but it does send a pretty consistent message about the person using it.
      • jsmthrowaway 11y ago
        There is also a pretty consistent message sent by identifying the term as pejorative and insulting, to be fair. There's a huge false dichotomy that holds that anyone who utters that phrase cannot possibly be progressive, when in fact the more likely scenario is that the speaker is progressive and is tired of a certain class of tactics overpowering the message. This thread is exhibit A, to that end. Look how many people are up in arms about the shirt and have really lost the plot of what they're mad about, and still invest their lives arguing over the shirt months after it was dead and gone and the guy apologized, in response to a one line aside from the original commenter that was interpreted as permission to get opinions off chests. There's a person nearby fervently arguing about the shirt without even having seen the shirt, and yet we are supposed to accept that this is the best path to equality and progressive change? I am not sharing an opinion (seriously, read my comment again), but I can tell from voting that it wouldn't matter anyway. My opinion would probably surprise the people voting on this comment, but I know better after several years than to ever speak to Hacker News about this topic and expect a coherent response. Again, I point to the thread.
        • Steuard 11y ago
          I'm not sure that I know which way you mean that initial comment. I don't see there being any question that "SJW" is almost always intended as an insult: it's almost universally used by people who disapprove of that philosophy, and the term "warrior" is clearly meant as mockery. (I've occasionally seen folks say, "Why do they think that's an insult? I'd be proud to wear that label!" But that's a very different thing.) I absolutely agree, though, that it also tells you things about the speaker when someone takes the time to speak up and say, "Hey, that term is used as an insult." (Disapproval of name-calling is only one of those things.)
          • jsmthrowaway 11y ago
            Your error is the presupposition that it matters, and that we are indebted to you for gracing us with your speaking up about it. Misogynistic anti-progressives, as well as progressives who fetishize three letters and rail about their insulting properties, have nearly identical DNA when it comes to caring about self-image which is what it says about you. Someone called you a SJW. Oh, no. What does it matter if you stay strong for what you believe? If you strongly believe in equality and comfortable environments for all, it will not matter what you are labeled or called, because you're above it. Soiling yourself with arguing about the term completely devalues whatever opinion you had. I see lots of people speaking up about the term "SJW," and I lose respect for every single one of their points of view. I'm not alone in that, based on conversations I have with people who don't take the time to subject their opinions to voting like this. One can be progressive and distance themselves from much of the "SJW identity." The problem is that progressives like yourself would consider such a person moderate, and that's where you're disconnected from reality. I can tell that about you just based on the two comments I've read alone (especially your logical leap from one side of the colon to the other in your second sentence, that insulting a person implies beliefs), and I've trained that on far more people than yourself; I've also never been wrong. Yes, I've inferred a lot about you from what you're saying, but since I've never met you I cannot possibly be expected to behave otherwise. Put another way, my biggest problem with the intersection of progressivism and the Internet these days is that both the SJW and anti-SJW camps have made everyone forget what the point of all of it actually is, and we're focused more on the failures of individuals like a shirt. The SJW-like progressives are just as complicit in that, but any opinion daring to say that is immediately seen as anti-progressive. Look at the effect: we're talking about an article of clothing months later. Remember when I said my opinion would surprise you? Watch me hold these three simultaneously: I thought the shirt was mildly amusing, millions who have never met the person slamming him in public was unacceptable, and if it made someone in his workplace uncomfortable they should be empowered to speak up and all parties involved have a reasonable and productive conversation and potential behavior correction without fear of retribution. Most people would read and understand all three. The current debaters would stop at the first one and rail me into oblivion. That's my problem. I'd call those people SJWs, and your initial comment which started this thread is that you can identify something about me based on that. Clearly, you cannot. This thread sucks. I regret being involved in it.
• keslag 11y ago
  Because I would feel uncomfortable if my boss wore a shirt of dicks all over it. Its inappropriate in any professional setting other than porn star or pimp. It's sexist objectification of women, and undoubtedly makes some of his peers uncomfortable. Not cool. edit: I should have googled the shirt first, somehow in my mind is was a lot worse than it was. It was more tasteless than anything. edit2: I kept digging, looking for more angles, and it is still bad. Impossibly figured hyper sexualized illustrated women don't belong in the workplace.
  • douche 11y ago
    Is there any evidence that it did make his peers uncomfortable? It's fucking clothes. Who gives a shit what someone else is wearing?
    • keslag 11y ago
      When those clothes belittle an entire class of people. It sends a message to his female peers that he views them primarily as objects, and as human being second. If he wore that to my office, he would be rightfully fired on the spot.
      • douche 11y ago
        I'm glad that I don't work in your office. Any kind of work environment that is that intolerant is a huge red flag.
        • keslag 11y ago
          Yea, we're incredibly intolerant. Men and women in equal roles, with equal pay, and a healthy diversity of cultures, ideas, and religions. Everyone feels comfortable suggesting an idea, or challenging a preconceived notion. The only real rule is Don't be a douche. You wouldn't like it.
          • hoopd 11y ago
• chippy 11y ago
  At least he didn't lose his job over it.
  • arrrg 11y ago
    People were asking for him to dress appropriately, he apologized, happy end. I mean, that’s a neat solution to someone wearing a really dumb and inappropriate shirt and no one every had to be fired over this … nor am I really aware of many people demanding that?
    • hoopd 11y ago
      He wasn't internationally labeled as an inappropriate dresser, he was internationally labeled a sexist. That crossed a line and the fact he had to give a tearful apology on one of the biggest days of his career without making that distinction or defending himself in any way is disgusting.
      • arrrg 11y ago
        What the fuck are you even talking about. You make no sense. And people are allowed to cricise people who are in very public places in obvious positions of power and who also act as role models. That comes with the job, you know. Sometimes you might have to face criticism and sometimes that criticism might be a bit unfair or harsh. Oh my god, the horror. What an unbelievable thing. (I think that’s something you have to allow groups of people who were oppressed and specifically excluded from science for centuries, you know.) He dealt with it and that’s that. I’m astonished how suddenly people want to treat someone like a raw egg while simultaneously decrying people who voice their criticism (and it’s mostly criticism, no offense!) as too delicate or always taking offense. It’s so weird (probably because it’s an argument made completely in bad faith, just to complain about bad feminists or some similar misogynist bullshit link voting websites are so good at spewing).
        • hoopd 11y ago
          > I think that’s something you have to allow groups of people who were oppressed and specifically excluded from science for centuries, you know. I disagree with this on so many levels. He wasn't attacked by women, in your argument only women have "earned" the right to be abusive to him because it's somehow reasonable to punish him for things done by men who are no longer around? Either way, he was attacked by the social justice movement and last I checked there has not been a concerted effort to exclude them from science. In general, you get special concessions to fight back against people who have oppressed you directly, by the time you start attacking a group's grandchildren for what they did to your grandparents you're just being a jerk. > just to complain about bad feminists or some similar misogynist bullshit Have I oppressed you? Have I excluded you? This is not an appropriate way to talk to somebody who simply disagrees with you.