4 ms·

> ... names of neighbors and close friends. Why for christs sake do they even collect this data in the first place? This is not a database on felons or potenti

by spacko 11y ago

> ... names of neighbors and close friends. Why for christs sake do they even collect this data in the first place? This is not a database on felons or potential terrorists ... why does the government care about the neighbours of their employees???

deleted 11y ago
[deleted]
modeless 11y ago
This is a database of potential Snowdens. The "intelligence community" is a strange, puritanical, paranoid sort of place. It wouldn't be so bad if it hadn't grown so preposterously large.
- jbuzbee 11y ago
  Note that this is far larger than the "intelligence community". This would include everyone from janitors who empty the trash in secure facilities to accountants, to mechanical engineers who design pumps for nuclear facilities, to web designers who write database front-ends, etc, etc, etc. And to say all of these folks are "puritanical, paranoid" is a very limited viewpoint.
  - modeless 11y ago
    If you filled out an SF86 it's because the "intelligence community" demanded it. That doesn't mean you're personally puritanical or paranoid; you're just subjected to the requirements of people who are; people who have altogether too much power and influence these days. And now those requirements have come back to bite you.
    - jbuzbee 11y ago
      As more clarification, this is not just relevant for the "intelligence community", i.e. the three-letter-agencies. It would also apply to folks at various National Laboratories, Army bases, NASA, etc. And even for universities doing government-sponsored research. When I worked at Cal-Tech associated Jet Propulsion Laboratory, plenty of people had clearances.
      - hga 11y ago
        And every officer in the military has to get a Secret clearance.
      - modeless 11y ago
        We are using different definitions of the words "intelligence community". To me, if you have a clearance then that makes you part of the "intelligence community" regardless of whether your salary is paid by NSA, NASA, a defense contractor, a national lab, the Army, a university, or whatever.
        mpyne 11y ago
        If your definition of "intelligence community" includes NASA or random low-level soldiers just trying to keep their planned operations out of the hands of their adversaries, then I'd submit that your definition of "intelligence community" is functionally useless. Just say "clearance holders" if that's what you mean... there's already a very precise definition of "intelligence community" as it pertains to the U.S. anyways.
hollerith 11y ago
>why does the government care about the neighbours of their employees??? I think that's so they can ask the neighbours questions.
jbuzbee 11y ago
I've been through this multiple times. Basically they just come out to your neighborhood and ask your neighbors if they've noticed anything suspicious going on. Strange behavior, odd visitors, unexplained affluence, etc. Takes all of 5 minutes. If it were my job to vet people, I suppose I'd be doing the same sanity-checks to make sure I wasn't dealing with an unstable person: drug addict, wife-beater, etc.
- gohrt 11y ago
  And then would you retain the details forever?
  - jbuzbee 11y ago
    I've been on other side of the coin as well. Agents came to me asking about another person. They tell you up front that it's voluntary to speak to them and that anything you say can get back to the person under investigation if that person asks for the investigation records. All in the open.
rayiner 11y ago
It's for security-sensitive positions. They ask questions to your neighbors about you to see if you're hiding anything. Heck, just to apply to the bar I had to list eight character references plus a contact at every employer I've had in 13 years. It's pretty standard practice for trust-sensitive jobs to ferret out people who have something to hide or are lying on their application.
viraptor 11y ago
Different country, similar use case (clearance) - guy I worked with says a great way to get a proper fake identity is to assume one of a dead child from years ago when documentation wasn't as precise as it is now. (gives you a real, registered birth certificate) That's where family/neighbors information comes in - agency asks them and they say "sure, I remember, he died so young"...

by spacko 11y ago

deleted 11y ago

[deleted]

modeless 11y ago

This is a database of potential Snowdens. The "intelligence community" is a strange, puritanical, paranoid sort of place. It wouldn't be so bad if it hadn't grown so preposterously large.

jbuzbee 11y ago
Note that this is far larger than the "intelligence community". This would include everyone from janitors who empty the trash in secure facilities to accountants, to mechanical engineers who design pumps for nuclear facilities, to web designers who write database front-ends, etc, etc, etc. And to say all of these folks are "puritanical, paranoid" is a very limited viewpoint.
- modeless 11y ago
  If you filled out an SF86 it's because the "intelligence community" demanded it. That doesn't mean you're personally puritanical or paranoid; you're just subjected to the requirements of people who are; people who have altogether too much power and influence these days. And now those requirements have come back to bite you.
  - jbuzbee 11y ago
    As more clarification, this is not just relevant for the "intelligence community", i.e. the three-letter-agencies. It would also apply to folks at various National Laboratories, Army bases, NASA, etc. And even for universities doing government-sponsored research. When I worked at Cal-Tech associated Jet Propulsion Laboratory, plenty of people had clearances.
    - hga 11y ago
      And every officer in the military has to get a Secret clearance.
    - modeless 11y ago
      We are using different definitions of the words "intelligence community". To me, if you have a clearance then that makes you part of the "intelligence community" regardless of whether your salary is paid by NSA, NASA, a defense contractor, a national lab, the Army, a university, or whatever.
      - mpyne 11y ago
        If your definition of "intelligence community" includes NASA or random low-level soldiers just trying to keep their planned operations out of the hands of their adversaries, then I'd submit that your definition of "intelligence community" is functionally useless. Just say "clearance holders" if that's what you mean... there's already a very precise definition of "intelligence community" as it pertains to the U.S. anyways.

hollerith 11y ago

>why does the government care about the neighbours of their employees??? I think that's so they can ask the neighbours questions.

jbuzbee 11y ago

I've been through this multiple times. Basically they just come out to your neighborhood and ask your neighbors if they've noticed anything suspicious going on. Strange behavior, odd visitors, unexplained affluence, etc. Takes all of 5 minutes. If it were my job to vet people, I suppose I'd be doing the same sanity-checks to make sure I wasn't dealing with an unstable person: drug addict, wife-beater, etc.

gohrt 11y ago
And then would you retain the details forever?
- jbuzbee 11y ago
  I've been on other side of the coin as well. Agents came to me asking about another person. They tell you up front that it's voluntary to speak to them and that anything you say can get back to the person under investigation if that person asks for the investigation records. All in the open.

rayiner 11y ago

It's for security-sensitive positions. They ask questions to your neighbors about you to see if you're hiding anything. Heck, just to apply to the bar I had to list eight character references plus a contact at every employer I've had in 13 years. It's pretty standard practice for trust-sensitive jobs to ferret out people who have something to hide or are lying on their application.

viraptor 11y ago

Different country, similar use case (clearance) - guy I worked with says a great way to get a proper fake identity is to assume one of a dead child from years ago when documentation wasn't as precise as it is now. (gives you a real, registered birth certificate) That's where family/neighbors information comes in - agency asks them and they say "sure, I remember, he died so young"...