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I have two web apps running on App Engine since a couple of years ago. It's nice enough, but I wonder why Google isn't doing much with it. App Engine could be p

I have two web apps running on App Engine since a couple of years ago. It's nice enough, but I wonder why Google isn't doing much with it. App Engine could be positioned as the full service PaaS here you don't have to worry about load balancers and all that. Google has also broken backwards compatibility multiple times, forcing me to spend time just to keep the apps running.

brianwawok 11y ago
It's just not as nice to use PaaS. For your really small hobby app.. its a pain sometimes to deal with all the config. For a real app with real traffic, you want to scale in different ways. What you can do with dockr and a bunch of VMs gives you a TON of flexibility. I know a few people with apps on App Engine.. I used it myself for a toy project. It's "ok".. but compared to buying a $5 digital ocean VM and getting a real server for less money? Makes no sense if you know linux at all.
- jfoster 11y ago
  The rationale behind App Engine is very valid, though. You are one person, or perhaps a small company focused on developing particular software. Can you do as good a job as Google's App Engine's security team at keeping your servers securely running your application? That includes potentially urgent patches to the kernel, libraries, web server, etc. Even if you can match Google's efforts in doing all that, why would you want to waste your time doing that maintenance work rather than working on your application itself? Docker VMs are an appealing concept to me, but it occurs to me that I would be dependent upon some third-party that I know very little about to release an updated image whenever something in the stack needs to be updated. Additionally, I need to be involved in that deployment. With App Engine, Google have my code, so they update the image and my code is always running in a VM that ought to be far more bullet-proof than I could manage. (even with some Linux knowledge)
  - chii 11y ago
    > That includes potentially urgent patches to the kernel, libraries, web server, etc. but given that java 7 is getting EOL'ed, there will be no more security patches for it. So how do you expect their jvm is secure? The basis for google's ability to patch better than yourself is pure faith.
    - jfoster 11y ago
      Google's execution of App Engine has been sloppy and half-hearted, but the concept makes sense, doesn't it? That said, I'm assuming their JVM is still secure despite being old. Oracle are EOLing their Java 7 JVM, but that doesn't directly affect App Engine unless that's the JVM Google are using. The indirect effects are inexcusable, though. That developers need to stick to an old language to use App Engine while the rest of the world has moved on is ridiculous.
  - lmm 11y ago
    The rationale is very valid, but the experience with Heroku is just so much better.
- rifung 11y ago
  I thought the whole appeal of App Engine is that you dont get a real server and thus dont have to worry about managing them. It seems like if you prefer a real server you aren't the target market.
- Kurtz79 11y ago
  It's just a matter of using Linux: you must know also about setting up a database server, replication, load balancing, security, logging... things that App Engine gives you for "free".

brianwawok 11y ago

It's just not as nice to use PaaS. For your really small hobby app.. its a pain sometimes to deal with all the config. For a real app with real traffic, you want to scale in different ways. What you can do with dockr and a bunch of VMs gives you a TON of flexibility. I know a few people with apps on App Engine.. I used it myself for a toy project. It's "ok".. but compared to buying a $5 digital ocean VM and getting a real server for less money? Makes no sense if you know linux at all.

jfoster 11y ago
The rationale behind App Engine is very valid, though. You are one person, or perhaps a small company focused on developing particular software. Can you do as good a job as Google's App Engine's security team at keeping your servers securely running your application? That includes potentially urgent patches to the kernel, libraries, web server, etc. Even if you can match Google's efforts in doing all that, why would you want to waste your time doing that maintenance work rather than working on your application itself? Docker VMs are an appealing concept to me, but it occurs to me that I would be dependent upon some third-party that I know very little about to release an updated image whenever something in the stack needs to be updated. Additionally, I need to be involved in that deployment. With App Engine, Google have my code, so they update the image and my code is always running in a VM that ought to be far more bullet-proof than I could manage. (even with some Linux knowledge)
- chii 11y ago
  > That includes potentially urgent patches to the kernel, libraries, web server, etc. but given that java 7 is getting EOL'ed, there will be no more security patches for it. So how do you expect their jvm is secure? The basis for google's ability to patch better than yourself is pure faith.
  - jfoster 11y ago
    Google's execution of App Engine has been sloppy and half-hearted, but the concept makes sense, doesn't it? That said, I'm assuming their JVM is still secure despite being old. Oracle are EOLing their Java 7 JVM, but that doesn't directly affect App Engine unless that's the JVM Google are using. The indirect effects are inexcusable, though. That developers need to stick to an old language to use App Engine while the rest of the world has moved on is ridiculous.
- lmm 11y ago
  The rationale is very valid, but the experience with Heroku is just so much better.
rifung 11y ago
I thought the whole appeal of App Engine is that you dont get a real server and thus dont have to worry about managing them. It seems like if you prefer a real server you aren't the target market.
Kurtz79 11y ago
It's just a matter of using Linux: you must know also about setting up a database server, replication, load balancing, security, logging... things that App Engine gives you for "free".