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Still no python3 either. The more I use it (and see minimial improvements), the more I'm sure AppEngine is a stale project, kept alive by the potential wrath o

by suvelx 11y ago

Still no python3 either. The more I use it (and see minimial improvements), the more I'm sure AppEngine is a stale project, kept alive by the potential wrath of the internet if they canned it. [edit] I'll give them credit, They've redone the console. But it's terrible. And you still need the old one to do things such as turn on cloud-storage.

jfoster 11y ago
Google have been giving mixed signals on whether they will ditch App Engine. They update the SDK quite regularly: https://code.google.com/p/googleappengine/wiki/SdkReleaseNotes https://code.google.com/p/googleappengine/wiki/SdkReleaseNot... They rarely handle bugs well. The linked issue is typical. They don't even need to do any work to do a whole lot better; they just need to give developers an indication about what to expect. That does mean that they need to make decisions internally, which might be the problem. Potentially, management is umm'ing & arr'ing about whether to kill App Engine. They recently threw a bit of a contribution in the direction of AppScale, but it's difficult to read that. It could be to soften the blow in the event of discontinuation, or it could be to remove the perception of App Engine as a service with no alternative. There have also been new features recently introduced, albeit projects that seem like they should have lower prioritization than ensuring folk can use SSL with App Engine, or use modern versions of their programming language. For example, this recent addition: http://googlecloudplatform.blogspot.com.au/2015/02/using-google-cloud-platform-for.html http://googlecloudplatform.blogspot.com.au/2015/02/using-goo... My reading of the situation is that Google Cloud folk have resources (headcount) to do routine maintenance on App Engine, but not embark on any infrastructural advancements, like new versions of Python & Java, or significant new functionality.
- randomfool 11y ago
  https://code.google.com/p/googleappengine/issues/detail?id=9537#c68 https://code.google.com/p/googleappengine/issues/detail?id=9... Sounds like their answer for Java8 is probably the same for Python3: "To echo comment #66, App Engine in fact is not going away. To the contrary, we're investing heavily, and the new hosting environment that is based on containerized virtual machines (what we're currently calling "App Engine Managed VMs") allows you to utilize Java 8 as well as Servlet 3.x."
- nly 11y ago
  Snapchat runs off the back of App Engine, I don't think they're going to ditch it anytime soon.
  - chii 11y ago
    why would snapchat's decisions have any consequence for google's appengine roadmap?
    - lmm 11y ago
      Because Snapchat is a large enough client that Google cares about keeping them happy? (Not that I believe that)
  - rahij 11y ago
    IIRC, Snapchat moved off of app engine to EC2 last year.
    - TheHippo 11y ago
      No. HTTP requests to snapchat still return with "Server: Google Frontend" header.
    - Veratyr 11y ago
      I googled around and couldn't find any mention of this. Could you find a source?
bkovacev 11y ago
Do you think they gave up on it completely? They haven't updated anything python related for a really long period of time. I have been using webapp2, but the lack of improvements and general care for the framework, makes me rethink if I should continue using it.
- bquinlan 11y ago
  Are you talking about the lack of improvements in webapp2 or the lack of improvements in the App Engine Python SDK in general? webapp2 was started outside of Google by Rodrigo Moraes, who has since moved on to other projects. Googlers have contributed to the webapp2 but have never taken the lead. There are probably dozens of WSGI-compatible web frameworks that are under active development and you can choose any one that you like.
Lewisham 11y ago
Disclaimer: I'm a software engineer on Google Cloud SQL, not on App Engine, I'm not senior management and I don't have any particular visibility into App Engine that other Googlers don't. App Engine is very far from dead, either in the "time to turn off the service" or the "it's destaffed but the servers still run" use of the term. App Engine is well-staffed and, AFAICT, is actually growing. They're working extremely hard on getting system reliability to a place where they want it to be. [1] seems to indicate the fruits of that labor, paying off in the last month or so. Now, reliability means reliable for _all_ their customers, from the one person bedroom coder to SnapChat. They have had a big task meeting the requirements of everyone. I can't talk to the bug triaging system of App Engine nor their future plans. That said, work continues apace to get Managed VMs [2] out of beta, and it seems like a pretty exciting new road which may be a custom better fit for larger companies. [1] https://status.cloud.google.com/summary https://status.cloud.google.com/summary [2] https://cloud.google.com/appengine/docs/managed-vms/ https://cloud.google.com/appengine/docs/managed-vms/
stickfigure 11y ago
> They've redone the console. But it's terrible. And you still need the old one to do things such as turn on cloud-storage. This is no longer correct. As a long-time GAE user, I was one of the last holdouts on the old console. Recently, however, I spun up a large new project - and discovered that I haven't needed (or wanted to use) the old console at all. Including for GCS. The new console is vastly more usable than the AWS console, and significantly more useful than Heroku's. Just the logging system alone is priceless.

by suvelx 11y ago

jfoster 11y ago

Google have been giving mixed signals on whether they will ditch App Engine. They update the SDK quite regularly: https://code.google.com/p/googleappengine/wiki/SdkReleaseNotes https://code.google.com/p/googleappengine/wiki/SdkReleaseNot... They rarely handle bugs well. The linked issue is typical. They don't even need to do any work to do a whole lot better; they just need to give developers an indication about what to expect. That does mean that they need to make decisions internally, which might be the problem. Potentially, management is umm'ing & arr'ing about whether to kill App Engine. They recently threw a bit of a contribution in the direction of AppScale, but it's difficult to read that. It could be to soften the blow in the event of discontinuation, or it could be to remove the perception of App Engine as a service with no alternative. There have also been new features recently introduced, albeit projects that seem like they should have lower prioritization than ensuring folk can use SSL with App Engine, or use modern versions of their programming language. For example, this recent addition: http://googlecloudplatform.blogspot.com.au/2015/02/using-google-cloud-platform-for.html http://googlecloudplatform.blogspot.com.au/2015/02/using-goo... My reading of the situation is that Google Cloud folk have resources (headcount) to do routine maintenance on App Engine, but not embark on any infrastructural advancements, like new versions of Python & Java, or significant new functionality.

randomfool 11y ago
https://code.google.com/p/googleappengine/issues/detail?id=9537#c68 https://code.google.com/p/googleappengine/issues/detail?id=9... Sounds like their answer for Java8 is probably the same for Python3: "To echo comment #66, App Engine in fact is not going away. To the contrary, we're investing heavily, and the new hosting environment that is based on containerized virtual machines (what we're currently calling "App Engine Managed VMs") allows you to utilize Java 8 as well as Servlet 3.x."
nly 11y ago
Snapchat runs off the back of App Engine, I don't think they're going to ditch it anytime soon.
- chii 11y ago
  why would snapchat's decisions have any consequence for google's appengine roadmap?
  - lmm 11y ago
    Because Snapchat is a large enough client that Google cares about keeping them happy? (Not that I believe that)
- rahij 11y ago
  IIRC, Snapchat moved off of app engine to EC2 last year.
  - TheHippo 11y ago
    No. HTTP requests to snapchat still return with "Server: Google Frontend" header.
  - Veratyr 11y ago
    I googled around and couldn't find any mention of this. Could you find a source?

bkovacev 11y ago

Do you think they gave up on it completely? They haven't updated anything python related for a really long period of time. I have been using webapp2, but the lack of improvements and general care for the framework, makes me rethink if I should continue using it.

bquinlan 11y ago
Are you talking about the lack of improvements in webapp2 or the lack of improvements in the App Engine Python SDK in general? webapp2 was started outside of Google by Rodrigo Moraes, who has since moved on to other projects. Googlers have contributed to the webapp2 but have never taken the lead. There are probably dozens of WSGI-compatible web frameworks that are under active development and you can choose any one that you like.

Lewisham 11y ago

Disclaimer: I'm a software engineer on Google Cloud SQL, not on App Engine, I'm not senior management and I don't have any particular visibility into App Engine that other Googlers don't. App Engine is very far from dead, either in the "time to turn off the service" or the "it's destaffed but the servers still run" use of the term. App Engine is well-staffed and, AFAICT, is actually growing. They're working extremely hard on getting system reliability to a place where they want it to be. [1] seems to indicate the fruits of that labor, paying off in the last month or so. Now, reliability means reliable for _all_ their customers, from the one person bedroom coder to SnapChat. They have had a big task meeting the requirements of everyone. I can't talk to the bug triaging system of App Engine nor their future plans. That said, work continues apace to get Managed VMs [2] out of beta, and it seems like a pretty exciting new road which may be a custom better fit for larger companies. [1] https://status.cloud.google.com/summary https://status.cloud.google.com/summary [2] https://cloud.google.com/appengine/docs/managed-vms/ https://cloud.google.com/appengine/docs/managed-vms/

stickfigure 11y ago

> They've redone the console. But it's terrible. And you still need the old one to do things such as turn on cloud-storage. This is no longer correct. As a long-time GAE user, I was one of the last holdouts on the old console. Recently, however, I spun up a large new project - and discovered that I haven't needed (or wanted to use) the old console at all. Including for GCS. The new console is vastly more usable than the AWS console, and significantly more useful than Heroku's. Just the logging system alone is priceless.