10 ms·

Some benefits of a functioning railway system: - increased throughput compared to highways due to lower volume per passenger (something the US is trying to ach

by avz 11y ago

Some benefits of a functioning railway system: - increased throughput compared to highways due to lower volume per passenger (something the US is trying to achieve with carpooling lines), - increased reliability (there are no train-jams), - increased passenger convenience (no need to look for parking or do maintenance on the train you ride), - increased passenger productivity (you can work or read on a train), - ease of transition to green source of energy. Advantages of the car over the train: - greater flexibility (generally roads offer denser network than railways, even in Europe or Japan), - car is much more convenient for families with children. I love trains. I love driving. I find that the latter is much more fun and convenience in places where the former works well. San Francisco's 101 could be one of such places if Caltrain was more like SBB. EDIT: one more important benefit of the train: - increased safety (much fewer fatalities per passenger; also no need for a designated driver when you go to a party).

hueving 11y ago
Most of your train benefits are only relevant to local trains. The interstates outside of the big cities aren't really crowded at all (e.g. The 101 through central CA).
- mentat 11y ago
  That hasn't been my experience with the 5 going from north to south or south to north.
Coding_Cat 11y ago
> -increased reliability (there are no train-jams), ``Ding dong Due to planned maintenance/a defective signal/ a computer error/ a tree on the tracks (or a leaf, or snow)/a collision with a person no connection is possible between Utrecht Central and Amsterdam Central.'' Generally you can take a detour, or busses will be employed to ferry people (after several hours usually), but it's not a very uncommon situation, I'd say we have a really major jam about 2-4 times a year, hard to judge. Still prefer the train over the car, but when I need to go to the airport to catch a plane I won't risk it. Also, our main rail maintainer, train provider, and the Gov't officials involved are a special kind of screw-up. So it might be a whole lot better if you can get the right people in charge.
- ekianjo 11y ago
  > -increased reliability (there are no train-jams) Exactly, and let's not forget the ongoing strikes in France, very common among SNCF employees (who are akin to civil servants and go on strike at least a dozen times a year). If you job depends on it, you are screwed.
- timr 11y ago
  "Due to planned maintenance/a defective signal/ a computer error/ a tree on the tracks (or a leaf, or snow)/a collision with a person no connection is possible between Utrecht Central and Amsterdam Central" Are you joking? Utrecht to Amsterdam is a local train. That's like saying that CalTrain is frequently delayed, therefore we shouldn't build any high-speed lines. Appels en Peren.
  - Coding_Cat 11y ago
    Oh don't get me wrong. I like rail-networks, I was just pointing out that while trains might not get jams there is still plenty of comparable ails they suffer from. I only picked Amsterdam and Utrecht because they popped into my head first.
- Cthulhu_ 11y ago
  Also of note is that you mention the Netherlands, which for routes like the one you mentioned still has the option for alternative routes with, in that particular case, at most a 30-60 minute delay from your original travel plan. At a larger scale / longer distances, that's no longer the case; if the track between Meppel and Zwolle has an issue, it'd be better comparable; that basically severs the north from the south. Compare NL with France, too: http://www.fairriqh.nl/stations/Spoorkaart/Spoorkaart%20Nederland.jpg http://www.fairriqh.nl/stations/Spoorkaart/Spoorkaart%20Nede..., http://www.bonjourlafrance.com/france-trains/images/france-train-network.jpg http://www.bonjourlafrance.com/france-trains/images/france-t..., NL looks more like a subway system.
  - bazzargh 11y ago
    there are way, way more lines in france than are depicted on that rough map. http://www.bueker.net/trainspotting/map.php?file=maps/french-network/french-network.gif http://www.bueker.net/trainspotting/map.php?file=maps/french... (a more detailed map can be found on the website of RFF, the agency that runs the network: http://www.rff.fr/cartes/pdf/carte-reseau-2011-medium.pdf http://www.rff.fr/cartes/pdf/carte-reseau-2011-medium.pdf)
ekianjo 11y ago
Some clear issues with long distance railway system: - it costs TONS of money to built. - you need to buy tons of land. - to keep straight lines in a place like Europe, it often means you have to go through places where people live, and you need to have villages partly destroyed by it. Yay, democracy. You'll notice that high speed train systems are usually very much correlated with socialism (France and Japan are both well known socialistic countries - no surprise here at all). - Above certain distances it makes no sense to take the train over the plane. I take the train in Japan every week for work between Kansai and Kantou, and it takes about 3 hours. A plane takes one hour, and it is 40% cheaper. Remind me why we need trains there? - The maintenance of a railway is a huge ongoing cost. - if there is one incident on the main railways, your subsequent trains are delayed or blocked. Yay for flexibility and "reliability". - Try working in economy class in TGV in France. It's about as narrow as plane economy, and it sucks for working. In Japan the situation is much better but don't make a generalization there. - green energy ? Oh, like in Japan where most of the electricity is produced by gas, petrol, imported at high costs from overseas since they have no such natural resources? Yay for efficiency! (truth is, Fukushima did not help, and electricity bills have been doubling since then (even home bills)). - Anything that does not depend on railways can be upgraded, transformed, improved. We will have self driving cars at some point, and we will be stuck with high cost trains running on linear tracks forever, because there's no improvement to be made there. It's a 18th century concept pushed to the max. There are cases for high speed trains, but even in Japan what they are doing is stretching it - nobody takes a train from north Japan to south Japan even if it's possible. It is just too expensive and takes too much time to be actually worth it.
- lars512 11y ago
  I agree that planes are faster over longer distances, and cheaper too. The amount of hassle involved in planes is definitely more though, more waiting, you're supposed to be there earlier, more transit time to and from the airport. I think a 3h train and 1h flight are pretty comparable in the end.
  - verytrivial 11y ago
    Couldn't agree more. Short haul airlines are only profitable because they treat passengers' wasted time as free (and for some reason passengers agree).
anonymfus 11y ago
>car is much more convenient for families with children. How so? Kids can not travel in cars alone because they have no license. Kids can travel in trains alone.
- nn3 11y ago
  Remember the US is the nation of the helicopter parents, where it is common to drive the kids to school and everywhere else until they get their own driving license. And cops are common to pick up younger kids which are around on their own because it is so unusual Putting a kid on its own on a train would be absolutely unthinkable.
  - uhwhat 11y ago
    I rode trains through out my teen years in the USA. No issues!
    - mentat 11y ago
      And that world no longer exists.
  - thecopy 11y ago
    Jesus. In Switzerlans i saw kids as young as 7 walk to school alone taking trams and walking.
- paulhauggis 11y ago
  "Kids can travel in trains alone." Parents can't even let their kids walk to school alone. I seriously doubt they would allow their kids to ride a train alone.
  - Crito 11y ago
    That case was an aberration. That's why it became such big news. If that were the norm, it would not have become national news. This said, helicopter parents are real. I've ridden on amtrak many dozens of times, but never saw an unaccompanied child.

by avz 11y ago

hueving 11y ago

Most of your train benefits are only relevant to local trains. The interstates outside of the big cities aren't really crowded at all (e.g. The 101 through central CA).

mentat 11y ago
That hasn't been my experience with the 5 going from north to south or south to north.

Coding_Cat 11y ago

> -increased reliability (there are no train-jams), ``Ding dong Due to planned maintenance/a defective signal/ a computer error/ a tree on the tracks (or a leaf, or snow)/a collision with a person no connection is possible between Utrecht Central and Amsterdam Central.'' Generally you can take a detour, or busses will be employed to ferry people (after several hours usually), but it's not a very uncommon situation, I'd say we have a really major jam about 2-4 times a year, hard to judge. Still prefer the train over the car, but when I need to go to the airport to catch a plane I won't risk it. Also, our main rail maintainer, train provider, and the Gov't officials involved are a special kind of screw-up. So it might be a whole lot better if you can get the right people in charge.

ekianjo 11y ago
> -increased reliability (there are no train-jams) Exactly, and let's not forget the ongoing strikes in France, very common among SNCF employees (who are akin to civil servants and go on strike at least a dozen times a year). If you job depends on it, you are screwed.
timr 11y ago
"Due to planned maintenance/a defective signal/ a computer error/ a tree on the tracks (or a leaf, or snow)/a collision with a person no connection is possible between Utrecht Central and Amsterdam Central" Are you joking? Utrecht to Amsterdam is a local train. That's like saying that CalTrain is frequently delayed, therefore we shouldn't build any high-speed lines. Appels en Peren.
- Coding_Cat 11y ago
  Oh don't get me wrong. I like rail-networks, I was just pointing out that while trains might not get jams there is still plenty of comparable ails they suffer from. I only picked Amsterdam and Utrecht because they popped into my head first.
Cthulhu_ 11y ago
Also of note is that you mention the Netherlands, which for routes like the one you mentioned still has the option for alternative routes with, in that particular case, at most a 30-60 minute delay from your original travel plan. At a larger scale / longer distances, that's no longer the case; if the track between Meppel and Zwolle has an issue, it'd be better comparable; that basically severs the north from the south. Compare NL with France, too: http://www.fairriqh.nl/stations/Spoorkaart/Spoorkaart%20Nederland.jpg http://www.fairriqh.nl/stations/Spoorkaart/Spoorkaart%20Nede..., http://www.bonjourlafrance.com/france-trains/images/france-train-network.jpg http://www.bonjourlafrance.com/france-trains/images/france-t..., NL looks more like a subway system.
- bazzargh 11y ago
  there are way, way more lines in france than are depicted on that rough map. http://www.bueker.net/trainspotting/map.php?file=maps/french-network/french-network.gif http://www.bueker.net/trainspotting/map.php?file=maps/french... (a more detailed map can be found on the website of RFF, the agency that runs the network: http://www.rff.fr/cartes/pdf/carte-reseau-2011-medium.pdf http://www.rff.fr/cartes/pdf/carte-reseau-2011-medium.pdf)

ekianjo 11y ago

Some clear issues with long distance railway system: - it costs TONS of money to built. - you need to buy tons of land. - to keep straight lines in a place like Europe, it often means you have to go through places where people live, and you need to have villages partly destroyed by it. Yay, democracy. You'll notice that high speed train systems are usually very much correlated with socialism (France and Japan are both well known socialistic countries - no surprise here at all). - Above certain distances it makes no sense to take the train over the plane. I take the train in Japan every week for work between Kansai and Kantou, and it takes about 3 hours. A plane takes one hour, and it is 40% cheaper. Remind me why we need trains there? - The maintenance of a railway is a huge ongoing cost. - if there is one incident on the main railways, your subsequent trains are delayed or blocked. Yay for flexibility and "reliability". - Try working in economy class in TGV in France. It's about as narrow as plane economy, and it sucks for working. In Japan the situation is much better but don't make a generalization there. - green energy ? Oh, like in Japan where most of the electricity is produced by gas, petrol, imported at high costs from overseas since they have no such natural resources? Yay for efficiency! (truth is, Fukushima did not help, and electricity bills have been doubling since then (even home bills)). - Anything that does not depend on railways can be upgraded, transformed, improved. We will have self driving cars at some point, and we will be stuck with high cost trains running on linear tracks forever, because there's no improvement to be made there. It's a 18th century concept pushed to the max. There are cases for high speed trains, but even in Japan what they are doing is stretching it - nobody takes a train from north Japan to south Japan even if it's possible. It is just too expensive and takes too much time to be actually worth it.

lars512 11y ago
I agree that planes are faster over longer distances, and cheaper too. The amount of hassle involved in planes is definitely more though, more waiting, you're supposed to be there earlier, more transit time to and from the airport. I think a 3h train and 1h flight are pretty comparable in the end.
- verytrivial 11y ago
  Couldn't agree more. Short haul airlines are only profitable because they treat passengers' wasted time as free (and for some reason passengers agree).

anonymfus 11y ago

>car is much more convenient for families with children. How so? Kids can not travel in cars alone because they have no license. Kids can travel in trains alone.

nn3 11y ago
Remember the US is the nation of the helicopter parents, where it is common to drive the kids to school and everywhere else until they get their own driving license. And cops are common to pick up younger kids which are around on their own because it is so unusual Putting a kid on its own on a train would be absolutely unthinkable.
- uhwhat 11y ago
  I rode trains through out my teen years in the USA. No issues!
  - mentat 11y ago
    And that world no longer exists.
- thecopy 11y ago
  Jesus. In Switzerlans i saw kids as young as 7 walk to school alone taking trams and walking.
paulhauggis 11y ago
"Kids can travel in trains alone." Parents can't even let their kids walk to school alone. I seriously doubt they would allow their kids to ride a train alone.
- Crito 11y ago
  That case was an aberration. That's why it became such big news. If that were the norm, it would not have become national news. This said, helicopter parents are real. I've ridden on amtrak many dozens of times, but never saw an unaccompanied child.