13 ms·

Holding Your Breath in India

158 points by fractalb 11y ago

eveningcoffee 11y ago
"Several medical ethicists said it would be impossible to get approval for a clinical trial to send a group of children to Delhi to monitor their health." So what about sending children from Delhi into another places and then comparing them with children that stay in Delhi?
- lake99 11y ago
  Thousands of kids are already sent from one place to another in India. It's usually kids from cities who are sent off to boarding schools in more isolated locations, usually because the parents have jobs that make it inconvenient to raise kids at home, and often because some of these boarding schools offer excellent education. If they wanted to conduct such a study, they could study these kids. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_boarding_schools_in_India https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_boarding_schools_in_In...
- anigbrowl 11y ago
  Or performing tests with livestock (eg pigs), whose lung function could probably be measured non-invasively, and who could be ethically slaughtered and autopsied whereas people obviously couldn't. Animals aren't the same as humans but when the problem is particulate matter and broad-spectrum toxins as described in this article I rather doubt the biological differences would invalidate the observations the way it might if you were studying digestion.
  - ghshephard 11y ago
    There is a great deal of experience using animals to model allergic airway disease. http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2831565/ http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2831565/ Thankfully, mice are good models, and I would hope that there are no ethical issues associated with relocating mice to Delhi.
- ars 11y ago
  I don't think they actually have any need for the study. They were just making a point of how bad the air is.
hakcermani 11y ago
Everything Gardiner is saying is true :-( As an indian and also an immigrant here in the US, i can only be ashamed. it is hard to defend India when such simple things taken for granted everywhere else is a luxury. India is a mystery. How do things even work? (Try an evening commute in a suburban train in Mumbai) How can people (that too 1.2 B) even live in such conditions ? (Are the conditions because of the 1.2B?). But the country has a strange resilience. It is a country steeped in tradition on one side and trying hard to catch up with the rest of the world in modernization on the other. There are sparks of brilliance everywhere. Like lotus in a mucky pond. (http://www.thebetterindia.com/25026/gatimaan-express-10-interesting-facts-about-indias-fastest-train/ http://www.thebetterindia.com/25026/gatimaan-express-10-inte...). My only wish is a little less corruption, and basic amenities for all within 5 years. The problem is huge, and unlike software humanity cannot be just rewritten from scratch :-(
- sremani 11y ago
  Corruption is not the entire problem. The open defecation rates of India beat Sub-Saharan Africa handily an estimated 60-70% of world's open defecation is in India. I mean, come on, we should stop taking the cover of corruption and colonialism for every problem that persists.
  - kamaal 11y ago
    >>Corruption is not the entire problem. Or may be it is. At least for our population scale. How and why do you think rules and regulations get flouted? Plus I don't tend to restrict corruption to what government officials do. The business(of all sizes) who don't pay a penny in taxes, Common public who break every single law knowing that they can buy their way out, people/managers in private companies blatantly indulging in linguistic, regional and religious politics quelling whatever little is left of meritocracy are all equally guilty. >>I mean, come on, we should stop taking the cover of corruption and colonialism for every problem that persists. Colonialism probably damaged India in ways which can't even be repaired now. To tell that it doesn't have any impact on how things are running now is very naive.
    - 11y ago
noipv4 11y ago
Delhi's air is a disaster. It's immediately apparent just before landing. After leaving the terminal one can literally see and smell the dirty smog, especially in winters. Air pollution's quite bad in Inland Empire, California as well (Riverside, San Bernardino, etc). One can see the air that they breathe.
frozenport 11y ago
I am shocked that the author couldn't find a place for her kid to live state side. For example, live with grandparents, maybe a boarding school. Now your kid has permanent lung damage, thanks Mom and Dad.
- MicroBerto 11y ago
  Yeah, imagine Bram re-reading this article when he's a brittle 25-year-old whose health is failing while his peers are in their physical primes. Because they wanted to write for a newspaper column. I feel bad for all of the children involved, but I feel extra bad for the ones who shouldn't have been in harms way in the first place, yet get thrown straight into it by will of their selfish and narcissistic parents.
  - anigbrowl 11y ago
    Too right. I had bad asthma as a child and although I don't think I ever had an episode as catastrophic as decribed in this article there's definitely a long-term health deficit that's carried forward.
  - Dylan16807 11y ago
    The way I understand it is that most of the damage was done before they understood the danger. While I'm sure it didn't help to stay for two more years, the effect of that is much more marginal, as long as they do get out. You're rushing too hard to judge.
- jpatokal 11y ago
  Thought experiment: Bram moves to Washington DC, where the air is cleaner than in Delhi, but is instead shot in a mugging gone wrong and permanently confined to a wheelchair. It's well known that rate of gun crime in DC is far higher than in Delhi. Are his parents at fault?
  - wavefunction 11y ago
    How many children are mugged in Washington DC though... To add some context.
lake99 11y ago
Anand Ranganathan wrote a good response to this article [1]. The TL;DR of it all was that the NTY article is too alarmist, and cites scant and old data, and that India still needs to needs to conduct more research on this issue. Edit: for bonus points, read the comments below, and you'll see why the problem is unlikely to be fixed. [1] http://www.newslaundry.com/2015/06/03/hold-your-breath-and-cut-the-hyperbole-mr-new-york-times-reporter/ http://www.newslaundry.com/2015/06/03/hold-your-breath-and-c...
- addicted 11y ago
  How is that a good response? His argument basically is that an article in a general-news newspaper is not meeting the same standards as a peer reviewed paper? Well, duh. Or him dismissing the study Harris does mention because it was conducted 10 years ago? Never mind that since Delhi's pollution has only gotten a lot worse since then, the research probably UNDERSTATES the negative effects of Delhi's pollution. And anyways, at the end he basically eviscerates his own response, by rebranding his article as not dismissing Harris's concern, but rather as a complaint against the lack of data India is collecting. I guess even he realized he really wasn't negating anything Harris was saying, and if anything was providing evidence that would suggest that Harris may even be understating the issue.
  - lake99 11y ago
    > His argument basically is that an article in a general-news newspaper is not meeting the same standards as a peer reviewed paper? Are you assuming that not meeting the standards of peer reviewed journals means not meeting good journalistic standards either? In any case, Anand Ranganathan has written for peer reviewed journals[1], and he has written for this general-news outlet [2]. He's usually very good at knowing where to draw the line with citations and details. > And anyways, at the end he basically eviscerates his own response He does no such thing. His main point is up there, under the title, "For an article that talks in excruciating detail of the cataclysmic effect of Delhi’s air, Harris Gardiner quotes but a single scientific study." [1] http://www.icgeb.org/anand-ranganathan-lab.html http://www.icgeb.org/anand-ranganathan-lab.html [2] http://www.newslaundry.com/author/anand-ranganathan/ http://www.newslaundry.com/author/anand-ranganathan/
zapdrive 11y ago
So much for Modi's "Clean India" campaign. I used to think illiteracy is the root cause for all the evils in India. But now I guess corruption is. And the people are somehow responsible. Most Indians are overly religious. They are so deeply involved in visiting temples & godmen, praying etc., that they do not think about anything else. They vote on religious lines. I lived in Mumbai for a month. Every apartment in my 15 story apartment building had a picture of a god/godess, or other religious symbols on the front door. I guess the people are relying too much on "god" to set everything right. And the politicians are taking advantage of this fact.
- dman 11y ago
  Did you gather all those conclusions in a month?
  - zapdrive 11y ago
    I lived in India for the first 22 years of my life. And was in India for an year and a half, recently. Was in Mumbai for a month.
- calvinbhai 11y ago
  If you are expecting the campaign to undo the effects of decades/centuries of degeneration, well ...
- discardorama 11y ago
  > So much for Modi's "Clean India" campaign. Really. You expect a nation of 1.2B people to change overnight (it's been a year since Modi got elected). The task is gargantuan; it won't happen in a year or even a decade. Here's a simple example: the Cuyahoga river in Ohio caught fire because of pollution several times over a period of 100 years before someone decided to do something; and even then, it took decades to clean it up: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cuyahoga_River http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cuyahoga_River This is in America, a land with so much wealth and so many resources.
  - xxpor 11y ago
meric 11y ago
Delhi air worse than Beijing air. http://www.hindustantimes.com/newdelhi/toxic-capitals-delhi-vs-beijing-air-in-one-chart/article1-1339725.aspx http://www.hindustantimes.com/newdelhi/toxic-capitals-delhi-...
littletimmy 11y ago
I find it hard to believe that the author could not escape pollution. The standard thing to do is to get an apartment in the tallest building you can find, and then use an air filtration system. Plus, every Indian city has a few neighborhoods where the rich live. These are normally clean.
nitishmd 11y ago
How is pollution in Bangalore?
- shawn-butler 11y ago
  National Air Quality Index, Central Pollution Control Board. http://aqi.iitk.ac.in:9000 http://aqi.iitk.ac.in:9000 If you can trust the sensor readings, that is.
  - trendroid 11y ago
    Bangalore seems one of the safest. Astonishing how troublesome some residential places in Delhi are than some others in the same city.
- yummyfajitas 11y ago
  In Bangalore I dont constantly blow my nose. When I do, the resulting snot isn't black.
tptacek 11y ago
What are the causes of air pollution in Delhi? It makes sense that trash burning would contribute, but to see pollution numbers worse than Beijing, one assumes there has to be some industrial process behind it. 75% of India's power comes from coal; is that the issue?
- zapdrive 11y ago
  Industrial and vehicular pollution are the other two main contributors.
- deleted 11y ago
  [deleted]
jtchang 11y ago
Did India ever try to implement a one child policy like in China? It may seem drastic but a lot of the conditions they are experiencing are a result of overpopulation coupled with poor infrastructure. The poor infrastructure is a direct result of the endemic corruption in the government resulting in reduced taxes and failure to forge ahead with much needed public works projects.
- calvinbhai 11y ago
  thats like a "chopping leg to cure a headache" approach. China will soon start relaxing those norms, out of desperate need.
- w1ntermute 11y ago
  Yes: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Compulsory_sterilization#India http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Compulsory_sterilization#India > A strong backlash against any initiative associated with family planning followed the highly controversial program, which continues into the 21st century.
- bad_user 11y ago
  There is a direct relationship between quality of life and birth rate. The poorer a population, the higher the birth rate. In Europe the birth rate has been on a decline and the population is aging. The one child policy in China has had negative social effects. For example many families sought to have boys, leading to a very skewed sex ratio and a high infanticide rate. We can also say that such policies are a human rights violation, are treating a symptom instead of the disease and are doing more harm than good.
- ars 11y ago
  > Did India ever try to implement a one child policy like in China? It may seem drastic Drastic doesn't even begin to cover it: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AE-U_Pq80OA https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AE-U_Pq80OA If you can't watch the whole thing, at least watch https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=98gAkzDSzvg#t=413 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=98gAkzDSzvg#t=413 The amount of misery this policy is creating is unreal. No country should EVER try this.
sremani 11y ago
#Culture - Culture makes societies and societies make cities. No really, all you have to do is walk down Newark St (aka Indian Street) in Jersey City or Little India in Singapore, yes Singapore, we have some how found a way to screw one of the world's cleanest city. The bright spot is, there is a movement called "Ugly Indian", in which enlightened Indians have acknowledged their "Culture" and working on the remedy. http://theuglyindian.com/ http://theuglyindian.com/ If you live in India join this movement. If you live outside of India, please do not mess public spaces esp. the ones with high density of Indian businesses. (note: I am an Indian living in US).
- hm8 11y ago
  As an Indian, I felt a real contrast when visiting Singapore. Everywhere we went around it was clean and beautiful but Little India. There was noise, trash, and what not. That walk was really insightful about us, begged questioning my values.
  - rattray 11y ago
    I visited Singapore before coming to India. I stayed in Little India because it was the only part of town with cheap hostels. It was also, I am told, the unofficial red light district. It may be more that Little India is one of the poorest parts of downtown Singapore, than that it's the "most Indian" part of Singapore. Many Indians in Singapore occupy higher social classes, similar to Indians in America (from what I was told by an American-educated Singaporean friend). But Little India is where a different sort of Indian lives - the cheap, expendable, poorly treated laborer. In fact, there were riots there under a year back because such laborers were being treated so poorly, that caused many Singaporeans to reflect on how they were treating these people (from what I was told). Did you visit the residential heartlands? It can be dirty there too, just in more of a Chinese way. A friend of mine works in the Singaporean police, and cited a number of recurring embarrassing incidents in these neighborhoods that are symptomatic of poverty elsewhere. tl;dr: Little India isn't "Indian", it's just "poor".
    - raincom 11y ago
calvinbhai 11y ago
This, written by an expat, who lived in an AC home, travelled in an AC car, and probably worked had leisure activities mostly in an AC environment. So, how would a common Indian citizen feel in Delhi? I don't know. But based on my few days of travel to Delhi, I feel, this article is quite alarmist. Most Indian cities are not ideal places for anyone with lung problems, and it'd certainly exacerbate one's symptoms trying to live in a city. I wish Gardiner Harris could give a common man perspective instead of a highly biased one. But, him being a persistent India hater (more specifically, writing anything that helps show the current government in a bad light), I'm not surprised to read this.
- moultano 11y ago
  >But based on my few days of travel to Delhi, I feel, this article is quite alarmist. It seems strange to discount his experience living there based on your experience of a few days there. My experience of Delhi is that the visibility often doesn't exceed 200ft, and the smell of the smog hits you as soon as the airport doors open. I don't spend more than a few days a year there though, so I'm neither inclined to write articles like this, nor to criticize them. >But, him being a persistent India hater He likes India enough to travel to the other side of the world to live there, and subject his children to significant health risks. This tendency to brand anyone pointing out obvious issues as an "india hater" or a "hinduphobe" is one the scariest things about India's political climate today, and I hope it fizzles out before it turns really nasty.
- discardorama 11y ago
  You're blaming the messenger here. I travel to India a couple of times a year, for 2-3 weeks at a time. As the plane is landing in DEL, you can smell the difference. As soon as you step on the jet bridge, you get acrid smell of burnt ... something. Rubber? Plastic? It's hard to tell (and you're overwhelmed by the smell of phenyl used for cleaning). Every time I've taken a 2-wheeler or a 3-wheeler in the busy streets, I come home with a cough; and near the end of the trip, I have a consistent burning sensation in the throat.
4684499 11y ago
Wow, so many self loathing Indians here.
- modarts 11y ago
  Have you been to India? You'd understand pretty quickly where that loathing comes from.
revelation 11y ago
We nearly left two years ago, after Bram’s first hospitalization. Even after his breathing stabilized, tests showed that he had lost half his lung function. On our doctor’s advice, we placed him on routine steroid therapy and decided that as long as his breathing did not worsen again, we could stay in Delhi. So we fixed the symptoms, surely it won't happen again? Really questioning the logic here.
- discardorama 11y ago
  Agreed. I'd get the hell outta dodge at the first sign of trouble for my child. Steroid therapy -vs- clean air?!?! No comparison: clean air wins every time!
suprgeek 11y ago
Yes the air in Delhi is a Disaster. The pollution & uncontrolled trash burning accompanied by a foggy climate with extreme heat/cold seasons all contribute. It is a very real and complex problem and the people & the Govt. of India & Delhi have not done nearly enough to tackle this. None of this is a secret. People have been screaming about this for the past innumerable years, it is featured in the frickin Wiki about Delhi. But you gotta wonder about the priorities of the author. He brought a sick asthmatic child to a City known for its horrible air quality. What the f* was he thinking? Then he writes a rambling article decrying the open defecation & air quality (mixing two tangentially related issues) after his son has an entirely predictable attack. A bad parent and a worse author, playing off the sympathy factor to decry known evils after putting his child in this situation himself.
- ktr 11y ago
  Couldn't agree more. I got to the end of the article thinking "why did you stay after the first series of episodes?". I never realized how bad it was there and I am sad for all those impacted by it - especially the little ones.
codelion 11y ago
Air pollution is a big problem in New Delhi. I wrote about it almost 2 years ago when looking at the data and comparing it with Beijing - http://asankhaya.blogspot.sg/2013/06/air-pollution-in-new-delhi.html http://asankhaya.blogspot.sg/2013/06/air-pollution-in-new-de...
pinkskip 11y ago
Did you guys ever flew over India... you'll know how bad the haze and smog is O.0
samuraig 11y ago
Am I the only one who finds it reprehensible for the author to knowingly expose his child to the pollution and disease of Delhi, for his own ambition?
- Frqy3 11y ago
  As someone who live in Melbourne (Australia) and is considering moving my family to a rural location for cleaner air for 10 years or so after the first child is born, I am unable to comprehend someone taking their child to live in one of the most polluted cities. Even if he (and his wife) did not think it through beforehand, the hospitalisation should have been a huge wakeup call.
- sk5t 11y ago
  I think it crosses the line from negligence to willfulness, and even from neglect/indifference to abuse... quite disgusting really.
- ars 11y ago
  I found it troubling as well - but do you personally live in the absolutely best place in the entire world to live? The least pollution, the least crime, the highest life expectancy? Or do you accept someplace not as good? Sometimes things seem "good enough".
bane 11y ago
I spent some time in Cairo, a city so clogged with dirty, filthy air that first time visitors often come down with respiratory infections. The locals I interacted with knew about the terrible air quality, but also mentioned that the city was popular with Indians, many of whom came to enjoy the "cleaner" air. I've never been to India, but this comparison has stuck with me.
elektromekatron 11y ago
We nearly left two years ago, after Bram’s first hospitalization. Even after his breathing stabilized, tests showed that he had lost half his lung function. On our doctor’s advice, we placed him on routine steroid therapy and decided that as long as his breathing did not worsen again, we could stay in Delhi. I hope Bram grows up to be understanding. Reading this article, I hope Bram grows up.
nrao123 11y ago
Before we read too much into the NYT Journalist's article, here is another view: For an article that talks in excruciating detail of the cataclysmic effect Delhi’s air has had on the health of the author’s child—and the ethical dilemma faced by expats, whether they should risk raising their loved ones in this godforsaken metropolis—for all those morbid adjectives and gut-wrenching, bile-inducing descriptions, Harris quotes but a single scientific study. “Delhi, we discovered,” he writes, “is quietly suffering from a dire paediatric respiratory crisis, with a recent study showing that nearly half of the city’s 4.4 million schoolchildren have irreversible lung damage from the poisonous air.” Single it may be, a citation is still a citation. Except that here it is in the form of an article written in The Indian Express, and worse, the study it quotes is born out of data that was collected between 2002 and 2005. Yes, more than 10 years ago. Discounting the fact that Harris insists on calling it “a recent study”; discounting also the fact that The Indian Express blunders with their subheading—“Just under half of the 44 lakh schoolchildren studied…” it says, while in reality only 11,628 schoolchildren were studied and the results of the survey extrapolated—the cited report is as comprehensive as one can get. The study points to the harmful effect Delhi’s air had on the health of 11,628 schoolchildren between 2002-2005: “In lung tests conducted on 5,718 students, 43.5% suffered from “poor or restrictive lungs”; about 15% of the children surveyed complained of frequent eye irritation, 27.4% of frequent headache, 11.2% of nausea, 7.2% of palpitation and 12.9% of fatigue.” But it is more nuanced than that. The study surveyed children from 36 schools, six of which were situated on Delhi’s main roads that are notoriously choked with traffic all through the day, with one, Lakshmi Public School—that presented one-tenth of the children surveyed—located near one of Delhi’s biggest bottlenecks: Vikas Marg intersection. It is also worth noting that in 2002, neither Delhi’s fleet of 6,000 rickety diesel buses had been phased out despite Supreme Court orders, nor had most of the 25,000 odd auto rickshaws converted to compressed natural gas, or CNG. In the age group of six to eight—the same as Harris’ son—the prevalence of current asthma in Delhi’s children was found to be marginally higher: 2.5% compared to 2% in the control group. Prevalence of current asthma shot up in children belonging to large-sized families and families with poor socioeconomic background (5.1% for a family size greater than six). The study found a strong positive association between PM10 and eye irritation, but not with asthma or headache. (PM10, or Particulate Matter of size 10 microns, and PM2.5, or Particulate Matter with size equal to or less than 2.5 microns, are the two major determinants of air pollution. It is now an accepted scientific fact that prevalence of PM2.5—measured in µg/m3—is more dangerous than PM10 as it settles deep inside the lungs). About 27% of Delhi’s children studied were exposed to cigarette smoke at home (control 28%) and, crucially, the study found that a child’s BMI, or body mass index, has a profound influence on his lung function. http://qz.com/420275/about-that-new-york-times-story-on-delhis-unbreathable-air/ http://qz.com/420275/about-that-new-york-times-story-on-delh...
archlight 11y ago
people will say India is largest democracy on this planet. all the things you see are temporary and will resolve itself because this political system has been working well in many places. I will then ask, well, when this is gonna happen?
- known 11y ago
  Feudalism + Voting != Democracy http://www.thehindu.com/news/national/its-all-in-the-family/article6095545.ece http://www.thehindu.com/news/national/its-all-in-the-family/...

158 points by fractalb 11y ago

"Several medical ethicists said it would be impossible to get approval for a clinical trial to send a group of children to Delhi to monitor their health." So what about sending children from Delhi into another places and then comparing them with children that stay in Delhi?

lake99 11y ago
Thousands of kids are already sent from one place to another in India. It's usually kids from cities who are sent off to boarding schools in more isolated locations, usually because the parents have jobs that make it inconvenient to raise kids at home, and often because some of these boarding schools offer excellent education. If they wanted to conduct such a study, they could study these kids. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_boarding_schools_in_India https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_boarding_schools_in_In...
anigbrowl 11y ago
Or performing tests with livestock (eg pigs), whose lung function could probably be measured non-invasively, and who could be ethically slaughtered and autopsied whereas people obviously couldn't. Animals aren't the same as humans but when the problem is particulate matter and broad-spectrum toxins as described in this article I rather doubt the biological differences would invalidate the observations the way it might if you were studying digestion.
- ghshephard 11y ago
  There is a great deal of experience using animals to model allergic airway disease. http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2831565/ http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2831565/ Thankfully, mice are good models, and I would hope that there are no ethical issues associated with relocating mice to Delhi.
ars 11y ago
I don't think they actually have any need for the study. They were just making a point of how bad the air is.

hakcermani 11y ago

Everything Gardiner is saying is true :-( As an indian and also an immigrant here in the US, i can only be ashamed. it is hard to defend India when such simple things taken for granted everywhere else is a luxury. India is a mystery. How do things even work? (Try an evening commute in a suburban train in Mumbai) How can people (that too 1.2 B) even live in such conditions ? (Are the conditions because of the 1.2B?). But the country has a strange resilience. It is a country steeped in tradition on one side and trying hard to catch up with the rest of the world in modernization on the other. There are sparks of brilliance everywhere. Like lotus in a mucky pond. (http://www.thebetterindia.com/25026/gatimaan-express-10-interesting-facts-about-indias-fastest-train/ http://www.thebetterindia.com/25026/gatimaan-express-10-inte...). My only wish is a little less corruption, and basic amenities for all within 5 years. The problem is huge, and unlike software humanity cannot be just rewritten from scratch :-(

sremani 11y ago
Corruption is not the entire problem. The open defecation rates of India beat Sub-Saharan Africa handily an estimated 60-70% of world's open defecation is in India. I mean, come on, we should stop taking the cover of corruption and colonialism for every problem that persists.
- kamaal 11y ago
  >>Corruption is not the entire problem. Or may be it is. At least for our population scale. How and why do you think rules and regulations get flouted? Plus I don't tend to restrict corruption to what government officials do. The business(of all sizes) who don't pay a penny in taxes, Common public who break every single law knowing that they can buy their way out, people/managers in private companies blatantly indulging in linguistic, regional and religious politics quelling whatever little is left of meritocracy are all equally guilty. >>I mean, come on, we should stop taking the cover of corruption and colonialism for every problem that persists. Colonialism probably damaged India in ways which can't even be repaired now. To tell that it doesn't have any impact on how things are running now is very naive.
  - 11y ago

noipv4 11y ago

Delhi's air is a disaster. It's immediately apparent just before landing. After leaving the terminal one can literally see and smell the dirty smog, especially in winters. Air pollution's quite bad in Inland Empire, California as well (Riverside, San Bernardino, etc). One can see the air that they breathe.

frozenport 11y ago

I am shocked that the author couldn't find a place for her kid to live state side. For example, live with grandparents, maybe a boarding school. Now your kid has permanent lung damage, thanks Mom and Dad.

MicroBerto 11y ago
Yeah, imagine Bram re-reading this article when he's a brittle 25-year-old whose health is failing while his peers are in their physical primes. Because they wanted to write for a newspaper column. I feel bad for all of the children involved, but I feel extra bad for the ones who shouldn't have been in harms way in the first place, yet get thrown straight into it by will of their selfish and narcissistic parents.
- anigbrowl 11y ago
  Too right. I had bad asthma as a child and although I don't think I ever had an episode as catastrophic as decribed in this article there's definitely a long-term health deficit that's carried forward.
- Dylan16807 11y ago
  The way I understand it is that most of the damage was done before they understood the danger. While I'm sure it didn't help to stay for two more years, the effect of that is much more marginal, as long as they do get out. You're rushing too hard to judge.
jpatokal 11y ago
Thought experiment: Bram moves to Washington DC, where the air is cleaner than in Delhi, but is instead shot in a mugging gone wrong and permanently confined to a wheelchair. It's well known that rate of gun crime in DC is far higher than in Delhi. Are his parents at fault?
- wavefunction 11y ago
  How many children are mugged in Washington DC though... To add some context.

lake99 11y ago

Anand Ranganathan wrote a good response to this article [1]. The TL;DR of it all was that the NTY article is too alarmist, and cites scant and old data, and that India still needs to needs to conduct more research on this issue. Edit: for bonus points, read the comments below, and you'll see why the problem is unlikely to be fixed. [1] http://www.newslaundry.com/2015/06/03/hold-your-breath-and-cut-the-hyperbole-mr-new-york-times-reporter/ http://www.newslaundry.com/2015/06/03/hold-your-breath-and-c...

addicted 11y ago
How is that a good response? His argument basically is that an article in a general-news newspaper is not meeting the same standards as a peer reviewed paper? Well, duh. Or him dismissing the study Harris does mention because it was conducted 10 years ago? Never mind that since Delhi's pollution has only gotten a lot worse since then, the research probably UNDERSTATES the negative effects of Delhi's pollution. And anyways, at the end he basically eviscerates his own response, by rebranding his article as not dismissing Harris's concern, but rather as a complaint against the lack of data India is collecting. I guess even he realized he really wasn't negating anything Harris was saying, and if anything was providing evidence that would suggest that Harris may even be understating the issue.
- lake99 11y ago
  > His argument basically is that an article in a general-news newspaper is not meeting the same standards as a peer reviewed paper? Are you assuming that not meeting the standards of peer reviewed journals means not meeting good journalistic standards either? In any case, Anand Ranganathan has written for peer reviewed journals[1], and he has written for this general-news outlet [2]. He's usually very good at knowing where to draw the line with citations and details. > And anyways, at the end he basically eviscerates his own response He does no such thing. His main point is up there, under the title, "For an article that talks in excruciating detail of the cataclysmic effect of Delhi’s air, Harris Gardiner quotes but a single scientific study." [1] http://www.icgeb.org/anand-ranganathan-lab.html http://www.icgeb.org/anand-ranganathan-lab.html [2] http://www.newslaundry.com/author/anand-ranganathan/ http://www.newslaundry.com/author/anand-ranganathan/

zapdrive 11y ago

So much for Modi's "Clean India" campaign. I used to think illiteracy is the root cause for all the evils in India. But now I guess corruption is. And the people are somehow responsible. Most Indians are overly religious. They are so deeply involved in visiting temples & godmen, praying etc., that they do not think about anything else. They vote on religious lines. I lived in Mumbai for a month. Every apartment in my 15 story apartment building had a picture of a god/godess, or other religious symbols on the front door. I guess the people are relying too much on "god" to set everything right. And the politicians are taking advantage of this fact.

dman 11y ago
Did you gather all those conclusions in a month?
- zapdrive 11y ago
  I lived in India for the first 22 years of my life. And was in India for an year and a half, recently. Was in Mumbai for a month.
calvinbhai 11y ago
If you are expecting the campaign to undo the effects of decades/centuries of degeneration, well ...
discardorama 11y ago
> So much for Modi's "Clean India" campaign. Really. You expect a nation of 1.2B people to change overnight (it's been a year since Modi got elected). The task is gargantuan; it won't happen in a year or even a decade. Here's a simple example: the Cuyahoga river in Ohio caught fire because of pollution several times over a period of 100 years before someone decided to do something; and even then, it took decades to clean it up: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cuyahoga_River http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cuyahoga_River This is in America, a land with so much wealth and so many resources.
- xxpor 11y ago

meric 11y ago

Delhi air worse than Beijing air. http://www.hindustantimes.com/newdelhi/toxic-capitals-delhi-vs-beijing-air-in-one-chart/article1-1339725.aspx http://www.hindustantimes.com/newdelhi/toxic-capitals-delhi-...

littletimmy 11y ago

I find it hard to believe that the author could not escape pollution. The standard thing to do is to get an apartment in the tallest building you can find, and then use an air filtration system. Plus, every Indian city has a few neighborhoods where the rich live. These are normally clean.

nitishmd 11y ago

How is pollution in Bangalore?

shawn-butler 11y ago
National Air Quality Index, Central Pollution Control Board. http://aqi.iitk.ac.in:9000 http://aqi.iitk.ac.in:9000 If you can trust the sensor readings, that is.
- trendroid 11y ago
  Bangalore seems one of the safest. Astonishing how troublesome some residential places in Delhi are than some others in the same city.
yummyfajitas 11y ago
In Bangalore I dont constantly blow my nose. When I do, the resulting snot isn't black.

tptacek 11y ago

What are the causes of air pollution in Delhi? It makes sense that trash burning would contribute, but to see pollution numbers worse than Beijing, one assumes there has to be some industrial process behind it. 75% of India's power comes from coal; is that the issue?

zapdrive 11y ago
Industrial and vehicular pollution are the other two main contributors.
deleted 11y ago
[deleted]

jtchang 11y ago

Did India ever try to implement a one child policy like in China? It may seem drastic but a lot of the conditions they are experiencing are a result of overpopulation coupled with poor infrastructure. The poor infrastructure is a direct result of the endemic corruption in the government resulting in reduced taxes and failure to forge ahead with much needed public works projects.

calvinbhai 11y ago
thats like a "chopping leg to cure a headache" approach. China will soon start relaxing those norms, out of desperate need.
w1ntermute 11y ago
Yes: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Compulsory_sterilization#India http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Compulsory_sterilization#India > A strong backlash against any initiative associated with family planning followed the highly controversial program, which continues into the 21st century.
bad_user 11y ago
There is a direct relationship between quality of life and birth rate. The poorer a population, the higher the birth rate. In Europe the birth rate has been on a decline and the population is aging. The one child policy in China has had negative social effects. For example many families sought to have boys, leading to a very skewed sex ratio and a high infanticide rate. We can also say that such policies are a human rights violation, are treating a symptom instead of the disease and are doing more harm than good.
ars 11y ago
> Did India ever try to implement a one child policy like in China? It may seem drastic Drastic doesn't even begin to cover it: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AE-U_Pq80OA https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AE-U_Pq80OA If you can't watch the whole thing, at least watch https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=98gAkzDSzvg#t=413 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=98gAkzDSzvg#t=413 The amount of misery this policy is creating is unreal. No country should EVER try this.

sremani 11y ago

#Culture - Culture makes societies and societies make cities. No really, all you have to do is walk down Newark St (aka Indian Street) in Jersey City or Little India in Singapore, yes Singapore, we have some how found a way to screw one of the world's cleanest city. The bright spot is, there is a movement called "Ugly Indian", in which enlightened Indians have acknowledged their "Culture" and working on the remedy. http://theuglyindian.com/ http://theuglyindian.com/ If you live in India join this movement. If you live outside of India, please do not mess public spaces esp. the ones with high density of Indian businesses. (note: I am an Indian living in US).

hm8 11y ago
As an Indian, I felt a real contrast when visiting Singapore. Everywhere we went around it was clean and beautiful but Little India. There was noise, trash, and what not. That walk was really insightful about us, begged questioning my values.
- rattray 11y ago
  I visited Singapore before coming to India. I stayed in Little India because it was the only part of town with cheap hostels. It was also, I am told, the unofficial red light district. It may be more that Little India is one of the poorest parts of downtown Singapore, than that it's the "most Indian" part of Singapore. Many Indians in Singapore occupy higher social classes, similar to Indians in America (from what I was told by an American-educated Singaporean friend). But Little India is where a different sort of Indian lives - the cheap, expendable, poorly treated laborer. In fact, there were riots there under a year back because such laborers were being treated so poorly, that caused many Singaporeans to reflect on how they were treating these people (from what I was told). Did you visit the residential heartlands? It can be dirty there too, just in more of a Chinese way. A friend of mine works in the Singaporean police, and cited a number of recurring embarrassing incidents in these neighborhoods that are symptomatic of poverty elsewhere. tl;dr: Little India isn't "Indian", it's just "poor".
  - raincom 11y ago

calvinbhai 11y ago

This, written by an expat, who lived in an AC home, travelled in an AC car, and probably worked had leisure activities mostly in an AC environment. So, how would a common Indian citizen feel in Delhi? I don't know. But based on my few days of travel to Delhi, I feel, this article is quite alarmist. Most Indian cities are not ideal places for anyone with lung problems, and it'd certainly exacerbate one's symptoms trying to live in a city. I wish Gardiner Harris could give a common man perspective instead of a highly biased one. But, him being a persistent India hater (more specifically, writing anything that helps show the current government in a bad light), I'm not surprised to read this.

moultano 11y ago
>But based on my few days of travel to Delhi, I feel, this article is quite alarmist. It seems strange to discount his experience living there based on your experience of a few days there. My experience of Delhi is that the visibility often doesn't exceed 200ft, and the smell of the smog hits you as soon as the airport doors open. I don't spend more than a few days a year there though, so I'm neither inclined to write articles like this, nor to criticize them. >But, him being a persistent India hater He likes India enough to travel to the other side of the world to live there, and subject his children to significant health risks. This tendency to brand anyone pointing out obvious issues as an "india hater" or a "hinduphobe" is one the scariest things about India's political climate today, and I hope it fizzles out before it turns really nasty.
discardorama 11y ago
You're blaming the messenger here. I travel to India a couple of times a year, for 2-3 weeks at a time. As the plane is landing in DEL, you can smell the difference. As soon as you step on the jet bridge, you get acrid smell of burnt ... something. Rubber? Plastic? It's hard to tell (and you're overwhelmed by the smell of phenyl used for cleaning). Every time I've taken a 2-wheeler or a 3-wheeler in the busy streets, I come home with a cough; and near the end of the trip, I have a consistent burning sensation in the throat.

4684499 11y ago

Wow, so many self loathing Indians here.

modarts 11y ago
Have you been to India? You'd understand pretty quickly where that loathing comes from.

revelation 11y ago

We nearly left two years ago, after Bram’s first hospitalization. Even after his breathing stabilized, tests showed that he had lost half his lung function. On our doctor’s advice, we placed him on routine steroid therapy and decided that as long as his breathing did not worsen again, we could stay in Delhi. So we fixed the symptoms, surely it won't happen again? Really questioning the logic here.

discardorama 11y ago
Agreed. I'd get the hell outta dodge at the first sign of trouble for my child. Steroid therapy -vs- clean air?!?! No comparison: clean air wins every time!

suprgeek 11y ago

Yes the air in Delhi is a Disaster. The pollution & uncontrolled trash burning accompanied by a foggy climate with extreme heat/cold seasons all contribute. It is a very real and complex problem and the people & the Govt. of India & Delhi have not done nearly enough to tackle this. None of this is a secret. People have been screaming about this for the past innumerable years, it is featured in the frickin Wiki about Delhi. But you gotta wonder about the priorities of the author. He brought a sick asthmatic child to a City known for its horrible air quality. What the f* was he thinking? Then he writes a rambling article decrying the open defecation & air quality (mixing two tangentially related issues) after his son has an entirely predictable attack. A bad parent and a worse author, playing off the sympathy factor to decry known evils after putting his child in this situation himself.

ktr 11y ago
Couldn't agree more. I got to the end of the article thinking "why did you stay after the first series of episodes?". I never realized how bad it was there and I am sad for all those impacted by it - especially the little ones.

codelion 11y ago

Air pollution is a big problem in New Delhi. I wrote about it almost 2 years ago when looking at the data and comparing it with Beijing - http://asankhaya.blogspot.sg/2013/06/air-pollution-in-new-delhi.html http://asankhaya.blogspot.sg/2013/06/air-pollution-in-new-de...

pinkskip 11y ago

Did you guys ever flew over India... you'll know how bad the haze and smog is O.0

samuraig 11y ago

Am I the only one who finds it reprehensible for the author to knowingly expose his child to the pollution and disease of Delhi, for his own ambition?

Frqy3 11y ago
As someone who live in Melbourne (Australia) and is considering moving my family to a rural location for cleaner air for 10 years or so after the first child is born, I am unable to comprehend someone taking their child to live in one of the most polluted cities. Even if he (and his wife) did not think it through beforehand, the hospitalisation should have been a huge wakeup call.
sk5t 11y ago
I think it crosses the line from negligence to willfulness, and even from neglect/indifference to abuse... quite disgusting really.
ars 11y ago
I found it troubling as well - but do you personally live in the absolutely best place in the entire world to live? The least pollution, the least crime, the highest life expectancy? Or do you accept someplace not as good? Sometimes things seem "good enough".

bane 11y ago

I spent some time in Cairo, a city so clogged with dirty, filthy air that first time visitors often come down with respiratory infections. The locals I interacted with knew about the terrible air quality, but also mentioned that the city was popular with Indians, many of whom came to enjoy the "cleaner" air. I've never been to India, but this comparison has stuck with me.

elektromekatron 11y ago

We nearly left two years ago, after Bram’s first hospitalization. Even after his breathing stabilized, tests showed that he had lost half his lung function. On our doctor’s advice, we placed him on routine steroid therapy and decided that as long as his breathing did not worsen again, we could stay in Delhi. I hope Bram grows up to be understanding. Reading this article, I hope Bram grows up.

nrao123 11y ago

Before we read too much into the NYT Journalist's article, here is another view: For an article that talks in excruciating detail of the cataclysmic effect Delhi’s air has had on the health of the author’s child—and the ethical dilemma faced by expats, whether they should risk raising their loved ones in this godforsaken metropolis—for all those morbid adjectives and gut-wrenching, bile-inducing descriptions, Harris quotes but a single scientific study. “Delhi, we discovered,” he writes, “is quietly suffering from a dire paediatric respiratory crisis, with a recent study showing that nearly half of the city’s 4.4 million schoolchildren have irreversible lung damage from the poisonous air.” Single it may be, a citation is still a citation. Except that here it is in the form of an article written in The Indian Express, and worse, the study it quotes is born out of data that was collected between 2002 and 2005. Yes, more than 10 years ago. Discounting the fact that Harris insists on calling it “a recent study”; discounting also the fact that The Indian Express blunders with their subheading—“Just under half of the 44 lakh schoolchildren studied…” it says, while in reality only 11,628 schoolchildren were studied and the results of the survey extrapolated—the cited report is as comprehensive as one can get. The study points to the harmful effect Delhi’s air had on the health of 11,628 schoolchildren between 2002-2005: “In lung tests conducted on 5,718 students, 43.5% suffered from “poor or restrictive lungs”; about 15% of the children surveyed complained of frequent eye irritation, 27.4% of frequent headache, 11.2% of nausea, 7.2% of palpitation and 12.9% of fatigue.” But it is more nuanced than that. The study surveyed children from 36 schools, six of which were situated on Delhi’s main roads that are notoriously choked with traffic all through the day, with one, Lakshmi Public School—that presented one-tenth of the children surveyed—located near one of Delhi’s biggest bottlenecks: Vikas Marg intersection. It is also worth noting that in 2002, neither Delhi’s fleet of 6,000 rickety diesel buses had been phased out despite Supreme Court orders, nor had most of the 25,000 odd auto rickshaws converted to compressed natural gas, or CNG. In the age group of six to eight—the same as Harris’ son—the prevalence of current asthma in Delhi’s children was found to be marginally higher: 2.5% compared to 2% in the control group. Prevalence of current asthma shot up in children belonging to large-sized families and families with poor socioeconomic background (5.1% for a family size greater than six). The study found a strong positive association between PM10 and eye irritation, but not with asthma or headache. (PM10, or Particulate Matter of size 10 microns, and PM2.5, or Particulate Matter with size equal to or less than 2.5 microns, are the two major determinants of air pollution. It is now an accepted scientific fact that prevalence of PM2.5—measured in µg/m3—is more dangerous than PM10 as it settles deep inside the lungs). About 27% of Delhi’s children studied were exposed to cigarette smoke at home (control 28%) and, crucially, the study found that a child’s BMI, or body mass index, has a profound influence on his lung function. http://qz.com/420275/about-that-new-york-times-story-on-delhis-unbreathable-air/ http://qz.com/420275/about-that-new-york-times-story-on-delh...

archlight 11y ago

people will say India is largest democracy on this planet. all the things you see are temporary and will resolve itself because this political system has been working well in many places. I will then ask, well, when this is gonna happen?

known 11y ago
Feudalism + Voting != Democracy http://www.thehindu.com/news/national/its-all-in-the-family/article6095545.ece http://www.thehindu.com/news/national/its-all-in-the-family/...