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Magic Leap are promising MUCH more - realistic occlusion of virtual objects by real ones, dynamic transparency (allowing both AR and fully immersive VR), natura

by mwilcox 11y ago

Magic Leap are promising MUCH more - realistic occlusion of virtual objects by real ones, dynamic transparency (allowing both AR and fully immersive VR), natural depth of field (refocusing on virtual objects without simulated blur), a scanning fiber light-field display, fully accurate hand tracking, both very near (holding something in your hand) and far (things flying through streets) depth tracking.. you get it. Not to mention, they haven't even said anything about their cloud platform yet, which you can bet Google are heavily involved with.. combining Tango area mapping with Google Maps.. they are trying to solve every problem in AR/Computer Vision, so it's no wonder people are skeptical. But if anyone's going to succeed, they have a pretty impressive team & investor lineup. Not to mention, Magic Leap are trying to build a whole ecosystem designed for AR experiences, right down to retails stores. Whereas Microsoft simply seem to be making 'Windows-AR'.

tmikaeld 11y ago
The "screen based VR" companies should be right out nervous if they manage to accomplish even the basics of those lofty goals. Though, from what have been described from those who have tested the Magic Leap, it is currently a HUGE device. I'm sceptical if they can get it down to even Oculus size.
- ElijahLynn 11y ago
  I thought they would be nervous too but there is still a market for screen based VR. Like the holodeck experience. Sometimes you just need to take people to a whole different place, one that doesn't include your current surroundings. #readyplayerone
  - tmikaeld 11y ago
    Magic Leap have realistic occlusion. That means that black can be projected on the screen - thus, VR is possible.
- dzhiurgis 11y ago
  Working out hardware is first part. Getting enough developers working on VR is much more important. I think Google is going clever way here by building up the hype and attracting them early. Also lots of 'traditional' VR people will switch.
noir-york 11y ago
> realistic occlusion of virtual objects by real ones This - how is this possible? Also, in the demo I noticed that the robots that landed on the higher floor where placed at the correct height. I know its a demo and not based on a PoC; but if they deliver that it will be amazing tech.
- ElijahLynn 11y ago
  Actually, that is their PoC. It actually works. Watch this video by Graeme Devine for more on how they do it https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oAAqbKSjRrk https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oAAqbKSjRrk
  - noir-york 11y ago
    This Reddit thread suggests that the video is a concept video, not taken from their PoC: http://www.reddit.com/r/oculus/comments/2zvuoz/occlusion_mask_visible_in_magic_leaps_video/ http://www.reddit.com/r/oculus/comments/2zvuoz/occlusion_mas...
IshKebab 11y ago
There's no way to occlude real objects. Think about it, it's just shining more light in your eyes. You can't shine "dark" into someone's eyes. I don't believe they've promised that anywhere either. In fact where are you getting any of this information?
- Someone 11y ago
  The OP claims the reverse: "realistic occlusion of virtual objects by real ones" With a good 3D model of the real world, that is possible (but not easy to get right with a possibly rapidly moving camera)
  - tgb 11y ago
    And also complains dynamic transparency. That would be a way to do real objects occluded by virtual ones, depending on what it means.
- AndrewKemendo 11y ago
  Yes there is, you render the real environmental map as a "cloak." Pretty simple conceptually.
  - IshKebab 11y ago
    You're going to have to expand on that vague explanation because I still think it is fairly obviously impossible. The best you could do is be much brighter than the background (which may be quite effective in a dimly lit room but isn't true occlusion).
- mwilcox 11y ago
  This is the patent: https://www.google.co.nz/patents/US8950867 https://www.google.co.nz/patents/US8950867 Abstract: A system may comprise a selectively transparent projection device for projecting an image toward an eye of a viewer from a projection device position in space relative to the eye of the viewer, the projection device being capable of assuming a substantially transparent state when no image is projected; an occlusion mask device coupled to the projection device and configured to selectively block light traveling toward the eye from one or more positions opposite of the projection device from the eye of the viewer in an occluding pattern correlated with the image projected by the projection device; and a zone plate diffraction patterning device interposed between the eye of the viewer and the projection device and configured to cause light from the projection device to pass through a diffraction pattern having a selectable geometry as it travels to the eye.
Demiurge 11y ago
It seems to me that every time anyone tries to do everything at once, they almost always fail. On the other hand I can see how progress is incremental, and we have amazing things after competition and many incremental improvements. Apple is a partial, notable exception, and thus benefited immensely. So, I do hope they succeed, AR would be amazing, but your description of their ambition makes me doubt it.

by mwilcox 11y ago

tmikaeld 11y ago

The "screen based VR" companies should be right out nervous if they manage to accomplish even the basics of those lofty goals. Though, from what have been described from those who have tested the Magic Leap, it is currently a HUGE device. I'm sceptical if they can get it down to even Oculus size.

ElijahLynn 11y ago
I thought they would be nervous too but there is still a market for screen based VR. Like the holodeck experience. Sometimes you just need to take people to a whole different place, one that doesn't include your current surroundings. #readyplayerone
- tmikaeld 11y ago
  Magic Leap have realistic occlusion. That means that black can be projected on the screen - thus, VR is possible.
dzhiurgis 11y ago
Working out hardware is first part. Getting enough developers working on VR is much more important. I think Google is going clever way here by building up the hype and attracting them early. Also lots of 'traditional' VR people will switch.

noir-york 11y ago

> realistic occlusion of virtual objects by real ones This - how is this possible? Also, in the demo I noticed that the robots that landed on the higher floor where placed at the correct height. I know its a demo and not based on a PoC; but if they deliver that it will be amazing tech.

ElijahLynn 11y ago
Actually, that is their PoC. It actually works. Watch this video by Graeme Devine for more on how they do it https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oAAqbKSjRrk https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oAAqbKSjRrk
- noir-york 11y ago
  This Reddit thread suggests that the video is a concept video, not taken from their PoC: http://www.reddit.com/r/oculus/comments/2zvuoz/occlusion_mask_visible_in_magic_leaps_video/ http://www.reddit.com/r/oculus/comments/2zvuoz/occlusion_mas...

IshKebab 11y ago

There's no way to occlude real objects. Think about it, it's just shining more light in your eyes. You can't shine "dark" into someone's eyes. I don't believe they've promised that anywhere either. In fact where are you getting any of this information?

Someone 11y ago
The OP claims the reverse: "realistic occlusion of virtual objects by real ones" With a good 3D model of the real world, that is possible (but not easy to get right with a possibly rapidly moving camera)
- tgb 11y ago
  And also complains dynamic transparency. That would be a way to do real objects occluded by virtual ones, depending on what it means.
AndrewKemendo 11y ago
Yes there is, you render the real environmental map as a "cloak." Pretty simple conceptually.
- IshKebab 11y ago
  You're going to have to expand on that vague explanation because I still think it is fairly obviously impossible. The best you could do is be much brighter than the background (which may be quite effective in a dimly lit room but isn't true occlusion).
mwilcox 11y ago
This is the patent: https://www.google.co.nz/patents/US8950867 https://www.google.co.nz/patents/US8950867 Abstract: A system may comprise a selectively transparent projection device for projecting an image toward an eye of a viewer from a projection device position in space relative to the eye of the viewer, the projection device being capable of assuming a substantially transparent state when no image is projected; an occlusion mask device coupled to the projection device and configured to selectively block light traveling toward the eye from one or more positions opposite of the projection device from the eye of the viewer in an occluding pattern correlated with the image projected by the projection device; and a zone plate diffraction patterning device interposed between the eye of the viewer and the projection device and configured to cause light from the projection device to pass through a diffraction pattern having a selectable geometry as it travels to the eye.

Demiurge 11y ago

It seems to me that every time anyone tries to do everything at once, they almost always fail. On the other hand I can see how progress is incremental, and we have amazing things after competition and many incremental improvements. Apple is a partial, notable exception, and thus benefited immensely. So, I do hope they succeed, AR would be amazing, but your description of their ambition makes me doubt it.