4 ms·

The article doesn't address why the hourly wage for 2-bedroom is relevant in relation to say, a 1-bedroom, studio, or mansion. Looking briefly at the BLS data,

by mrestko 11y ago

The article doesn't address why the hourly wage for 2-bedroom is relevant in relation to say, a 1-bedroom, studio, or mansion. Looking briefly at the BLS data, it seems that there are about equal numbers of single- and double-earner households. It's not clear to me that a single-earner household should expect to be able to rent a two bedroom apartment.

realbarack 11y ago
I'm guessing picking two-bedrooms is a proxy for families: one for parent(s) and one for child(ren).
pjonesdotca 11y ago
So then by your logic, all the single income families are consigned to only living in one bedroom apartments? This seems like a logic fail to me.
- frogpelt 11y ago
  It's not logic fail. It's emotional fail. Logic fail is claiming there is a logical reason why all single wage earners SHOULD be paid enough to afford a two-bedroom rental in their current location. Emotions might tell you that but logic does not.
  - pjonesdotca 11y ago
    For much of the 20th century and perhaps as far back as the 19th a single earner was capable of not only providing a multi bedroom apartment but also a house. You should look into why this has changed and ask yourself why you are OK with that change.
    - lotharbot 11y ago
      Both of my grandfathers built their own homes in 1951 or 1952. Both original houses were around 800 sqft, and eventually expanded to around 1600 sqft over the course of decades. According to the US census bureau [0] the median new home constructed in the US is around 2100 sqft. If you dig deeper into the data [1] you'll find that the characteristics of housing in the US have changed drastically since the days of mostly single-income households -- homes are much larger, with more amenities. The average dwelling for someone below the poverty line right now is bigger and has better amenities than the average dwelling for Americans as a whole in 1970. One pair of my grandparents is still living, in the same house. Houses that have sold on their block in the last few months were all around 800 sqft and went for an average of $95,000 -- which is an affordable 3.2 times the median income in the neighborhood (it's a poor neighborhood.) A single earner can provide a house, provided it's a house similar to what single earners could provide decades ago -- but there aren't many of those on the market. We keep building bigger houses and then wonder why the poor can't afford to keep up. [0] https://www.census.gov/const/C25Ann/sftotalmedavgsqft.pdf https://www.census.gov/const/C25Ann/sftotalmedavgsqft.pdf [1] http://www.census.gov/programs-surveys/ahs.html http://www.census.gov/programs-surveys/ahs.html
- mrestko 11y ago
  No, that is not what I meant to imply. My point is that increasing living space will obviously require more income, and it seems arbitrary to assume that 2-bedroom is the point of comparison when you're only looking at one-person incomes. I know a lot of single people without families who are perfectly content to live in a one bedroom or studio (myself included). If you simply assume that everyone must live in a 2 bedroom, then of course you can tell dire stories about how unaffordable housing is. I don't want to diminish the very real struggle some families have with finding adequate housing. But I do think that the linked article has no real clear thesis other than that they wish housing was cheaper. I'd venture that everyone wants that to be true, always, and forever.
mhurron 11y ago
How dare single parent families expect to live somewhere decent.
- bpodgursky 11y ago
  This chart wouldn't take into account the various subsidies you would get if you were actually making $13/hr as a single parent -- housing assistance, food stamps, medicaid, welfare itself, etc. The effective income -- after all assistance is accounted for -- is going be far higher than the quoted hourly wage.
  - maxerickson 11y ago
    At $13 an hour, TANF (the best match on "Welfare") would not be available. $25,000 per year is in the taper for the EIC, but would qualify for ~$2000 each of the first two children and a bit more for a third. In some states, $25,000 per year would also disqualify a family of 4 from Medicaid (but ACA subsidies would still apply).
- mason240 11y ago
  A single parent would also be getting child support, making it a double income.
  - vectorjohn 11y ago
    Child support does not equal a second income.
- frogpelt 11y ago
  They should expect to live somewhere decent. They should also expect to be responsible for making sure they have marketable skills and enough money to afford it.
  - s73v3r 11y ago
    And so what's the answer? Just stick or fingers in our ears and go "La la la" and ignore the problem simply because you got lucky enough to not knock someone up at an inopportune time in your life?
rauljara 11y ago
Presumably, a 2 bedroom apt. would be quite relevant to single parents.

by mrestko 11y ago

realbarack 11y ago

I'm guessing picking two-bedrooms is a proxy for families: one for parent(s) and one for child(ren).

pjonesdotca 11y ago

So then by your logic, all the single income families are consigned to only living in one bedroom apartments? This seems like a logic fail to me.

frogpelt 11y ago
It's not logic fail. It's emotional fail. Logic fail is claiming there is a logical reason why all single wage earners SHOULD be paid enough to afford a two-bedroom rental in their current location. Emotions might tell you that but logic does not.
- pjonesdotca 11y ago
  For much of the 20th century and perhaps as far back as the 19th a single earner was capable of not only providing a multi bedroom apartment but also a house. You should look into why this has changed and ask yourself why you are OK with that change.
  - lotharbot 11y ago
    Both of my grandfathers built their own homes in 1951 or 1952. Both original houses were around 800 sqft, and eventually expanded to around 1600 sqft over the course of decades. According to the US census bureau [0] the median new home constructed in the US is around 2100 sqft. If you dig deeper into the data [1] you'll find that the characteristics of housing in the US have changed drastically since the days of mostly single-income households -- homes are much larger, with more amenities. The average dwelling for someone below the poverty line right now is bigger and has better amenities than the average dwelling for Americans as a whole in 1970. One pair of my grandparents is still living, in the same house. Houses that have sold on their block in the last few months were all around 800 sqft and went for an average of $95,000 -- which is an affordable 3.2 times the median income in the neighborhood (it's a poor neighborhood.) A single earner can provide a house, provided it's a house similar to what single earners could provide decades ago -- but there aren't many of those on the market. We keep building bigger houses and then wonder why the poor can't afford to keep up. [0] https://www.census.gov/const/C25Ann/sftotalmedavgsqft.pdf https://www.census.gov/const/C25Ann/sftotalmedavgsqft.pdf [1] http://www.census.gov/programs-surveys/ahs.html http://www.census.gov/programs-surveys/ahs.html
mrestko 11y ago
No, that is not what I meant to imply. My point is that increasing living space will obviously require more income, and it seems arbitrary to assume that 2-bedroom is the point of comparison when you're only looking at one-person incomes. I know a lot of single people without families who are perfectly content to live in a one bedroom or studio (myself included). If you simply assume that everyone must live in a 2 bedroom, then of course you can tell dire stories about how unaffordable housing is. I don't want to diminish the very real struggle some families have with finding adequate housing. But I do think that the linked article has no real clear thesis other than that they wish housing was cheaper. I'd venture that everyone wants that to be true, always, and forever.

mhurron 11y ago

How dare single parent families expect to live somewhere decent.

bpodgursky 11y ago
This chart wouldn't take into account the various subsidies you would get if you were actually making $13/hr as a single parent -- housing assistance, food stamps, medicaid, welfare itself, etc. The effective income -- after all assistance is accounted for -- is going be far higher than the quoted hourly wage.
- maxerickson 11y ago
  At $13 an hour, TANF (the best match on "Welfare") would not be available. $25,000 per year is in the taper for the EIC, but would qualify for ~$2000 each of the first two children and a bit more for a third. In some states, $25,000 per year would also disqualify a family of 4 from Medicaid (but ACA subsidies would still apply).
mason240 11y ago
A single parent would also be getting child support, making it a double income.
- vectorjohn 11y ago
  Child support does not equal a second income.
frogpelt 11y ago
They should expect to live somewhere decent. They should also expect to be responsible for making sure they have marketable skills and enough money to afford it.
- s73v3r 11y ago
  And so what's the answer? Just stick or fingers in our ears and go "La la la" and ignore the problem simply because you got lucky enough to not knock someone up at an inopportune time in your life?

rauljara 11y ago

Presumably, a 2 bedroom apt. would be quite relevant to single parents.