4 ms·

Seems to be trading all our different ports with the problem of having all levels of different cables? This port is going to be very expensive for the manufact

Seems to be trading all our different ports with the problem of having all levels of different cables? This port is going to be very expensive for the manufactures. If it does everything I'm going to need a bunch. Does anything stop OEMs making a row of identical ports that only 1 charges my laptop, only a couple take can use the fastest cable and I'm sure all sorts of potential shenanigans,

ZenoArrow 11y ago
Is there any word on whether the cables will be different? I suspect the cables will match, but the protocols the port support will be determined by the controller chipset.
- Already__Taken 11y ago
  I can't see how the cables will look much different between each other but even so they will all fit the same connector. There's already planned the 20gbps copper, 40gbps active copper and optical. What mechanism can stop the £0.99 charge only cables people expect to plug in their portable hard drives through.
  - ZenoArrow 11y ago
    > What mechanism can stop the £0.99 charge only cables people expect to plug in their portable hard drives though. This has nothing to do with this Thunderbolt announcement, the situation would be the same even if only USB 3.1 was supported. However, the solutions are the same as ever: 1. Don't use charge only cables, buy cables that support charging and data. They're normally affordable. 2. Keep the charge only cable plugged in to your power source. 3. Mark the charge only cables with a sticker. As for the Thunderbolt 3 announcement, it looks like there are three proposed cables, and it looks very likely that the passive and active versions will support both USB 3.1 and Thunderbolt 3. Perhaps the light based ones won't, but they'll be niche at first, unless Thunderbolt 3 takes off rapidly.
  - lsaferite 11y ago
    USB-PD can check the cable to see what it's capabilities are so it won't push too much current over the wrong type of cable. I imagine any scheme to use TB3 over a Type-C connector will be able of checking the cable as well.
- cmsj 11y ago
  Thunderbolt 1&2 connectors have active electronics in the connectors, and that seems likely to stay in 3, so yes, the cables will be different.
  - lsaferite 11y ago
    They specifically call out in the release that 20Gb will use passive cables and 40Gb will require active cables.
quonn 11y ago
I think we will see symbols next to the port like the thunderbolt symbol and a charging symbol. And I guess most manufacturers will enable all of their ports at least for charging to keep things simple (and customers happy).
- nitrogen 11y ago
  The high current required for charging makes that one of the more difficult things to spread around to all the ports, I'd imagine.
  - bryanlarsen 11y ago
    After the MacBook came out, but before the new Chromebook Pixel, I was telling people that Apple only put a single type-C port on their MacBook for this reason. I said "When PC's come out with type-C, they'll have multiple ports, but you'll only be able to use one of them as the power port. Apple would rather have a single port than have such a confusing setup." Of course, then the Chromebook Pixel came out and proved me wrong. I still expect some PC makers to try and shave costs by only supporting power input on one of the type-C connectors, but the Chromebook Pixel example will ensure that such an arrangement will get slammed by reviewers.
    - rsynnott 11y ago
      Is that definitely the case? It's still not unknown for laptops to have exactly one charging downstream USB port, unlabelled, so that some devices will charge from one port and not another. I wouldn't be at all surprised if the same is happening with USB-C.
      - duaneb 11y ago
        Yea, this is a problem that could be solved by color coded stickers.
tracker1 11y ago
Why do you need a bunch? Most will be able to get by with a single port, to one-two monitors with a couple USB-A ports (and ethernet) on the monitors... or via a Thundebolt/USB-C dock.
- lsaferite 11y ago
  To run multi-monitor you'd need the monitor to embed a DP-MST hub or embed a USB 3 video device if you only used a single port. The alt-mode capability cannot traverse a hub. More likely you'd have dual cables running to dual monitors. Each monitor could provide internal USB 3.1 hubs and associated devices plus feed 100W back up the line if needed.
  - tracker1 11y ago
    I would think that the first monitor would have a thunderbolt passthrough for a second monitor connection... IIRC, the apple thunderbolt displays have things like ethernet, etc on the monitor itself, though I don't think gen-1 supported multiple displays on a single connection, it wouldn't surprise me if this one changed said passthrough.
IshKebab 11y ago
This already happens. My laptop has three USB ports. One with just the USB symbol, one with the superspeed USB symbol ("SS") and one with the superspeed symbol and a lightening bolt. I'm not sure exactly what that lightning bolt... Who knows what that means - maybe support for the Battery Charging Specification (5V, 1.5A)? We'll just have to get used to ports having a load of obscure symbols next to them.
- andor 11y ago
  The port with the lightning bolt might charge devices even when the laptop is turned off.
- Already__Taken 11y ago
  It's a sad kind of funny we'll finally get a port I can plug anything in either way up but now have to look even harder at the icons to make sure it's the correct identical port. Can't even feel for the USB embossed logo side up for that one. And yes the lightning bolt will charge things without powering your laptop on. Very handy.
rikkus 11y ago
It's a good point. With my current USB devices, I know that the short cable will charge my phone properly and the long one won't. I know that I've seen a 'charge only' cable. I'm not sure this will be fixed with the newer USB standards.
- jessaustin 11y ago
  In my experience, many micro-USB cables that won't charge simply have worn plugs. That is, if you wiggle it just right, it will charge, but when you leave it lying on the desk it won't. However a new cable of the exact same SKU will fit so tight you can hang the phone from a wall socket with it. I think this is good engineering, because something will wear out, and it's much less bother to replace a $2 cable than it is to fix a worn-out USB jack in your phone.

ZenoArrow 11y ago

Is there any word on whether the cables will be different? I suspect the cables will match, but the protocols the port support will be determined by the controller chipset.

Already__Taken 11y ago
I can't see how the cables will look much different between each other but even so they will all fit the same connector. There's already planned the 20gbps copper, 40gbps active copper and optical. What mechanism can stop the £0.99 charge only cables people expect to plug in their portable hard drives through.
- ZenoArrow 11y ago
  > What mechanism can stop the £0.99 charge only cables people expect to plug in their portable hard drives though. This has nothing to do with this Thunderbolt announcement, the situation would be the same even if only USB 3.1 was supported. However, the solutions are the same as ever: 1. Don't use charge only cables, buy cables that support charging and data. They're normally affordable. 2. Keep the charge only cable plugged in to your power source. 3. Mark the charge only cables with a sticker. As for the Thunderbolt 3 announcement, it looks like there are three proposed cables, and it looks very likely that the passive and active versions will support both USB 3.1 and Thunderbolt 3. Perhaps the light based ones won't, but they'll be niche at first, unless Thunderbolt 3 takes off rapidly.
- lsaferite 11y ago
  USB-PD can check the cable to see what it's capabilities are so it won't push too much current over the wrong type of cable. I imagine any scheme to use TB3 over a Type-C connector will be able of checking the cable as well.
cmsj 11y ago
Thunderbolt 1&2 connectors have active electronics in the connectors, and that seems likely to stay in 3, so yes, the cables will be different.
- lsaferite 11y ago
  They specifically call out in the release that 20Gb will use passive cables and 40Gb will require active cables.

quonn 11y ago

I think we will see symbols next to the port like the thunderbolt symbol and a charging symbol. And I guess most manufacturers will enable all of their ports at least for charging to keep things simple (and customers happy).

nitrogen 11y ago
The high current required for charging makes that one of the more difficult things to spread around to all the ports, I'd imagine.
- bryanlarsen 11y ago
  After the MacBook came out, but before the new Chromebook Pixel, I was telling people that Apple only put a single type-C port on their MacBook for this reason. I said "When PC's come out with type-C, they'll have multiple ports, but you'll only be able to use one of them as the power port. Apple would rather have a single port than have such a confusing setup." Of course, then the Chromebook Pixel came out and proved me wrong. I still expect some PC makers to try and shave costs by only supporting power input on one of the type-C connectors, but the Chromebook Pixel example will ensure that such an arrangement will get slammed by reviewers.
  - rsynnott 11y ago
    Is that definitely the case? It's still not unknown for laptops to have exactly one charging downstream USB port, unlabelled, so that some devices will charge from one port and not another. I wouldn't be at all surprised if the same is happening with USB-C.
    - duaneb 11y ago
      Yea, this is a problem that could be solved by color coded stickers.

tracker1 11y ago

Why do you need a bunch? Most will be able to get by with a single port, to one-two monitors with a couple USB-A ports (and ethernet) on the monitors... or via a Thundebolt/USB-C dock.

lsaferite 11y ago
To run multi-monitor you'd need the monitor to embed a DP-MST hub or embed a USB 3 video device if you only used a single port. The alt-mode capability cannot traverse a hub. More likely you'd have dual cables running to dual monitors. Each monitor could provide internal USB 3.1 hubs and associated devices plus feed 100W back up the line if needed.
- tracker1 11y ago
  I would think that the first monitor would have a thunderbolt passthrough for a second monitor connection... IIRC, the apple thunderbolt displays have things like ethernet, etc on the monitor itself, though I don't think gen-1 supported multiple displays on a single connection, it wouldn't surprise me if this one changed said passthrough.

IshKebab 11y ago

This already happens. My laptop has three USB ports. One with just the USB symbol, one with the superspeed USB symbol ("SS") and one with the superspeed symbol and a lightening bolt. I'm not sure exactly what that lightning bolt... Who knows what that means - maybe support for the Battery Charging Specification (5V, 1.5A)? We'll just have to get used to ports having a load of obscure symbols next to them.

andor 11y ago
The port with the lightning bolt might charge devices even when the laptop is turned off.
Already__Taken 11y ago
It's a sad kind of funny we'll finally get a port I can plug anything in either way up but now have to look even harder at the icons to make sure it's the correct identical port. Can't even feel for the USB embossed logo side up for that one. And yes the lightning bolt will charge things without powering your laptop on. Very handy.

rikkus 11y ago

It's a good point. With my current USB devices, I know that the short cable will charge my phone properly and the long one won't. I know that I've seen a 'charge only' cable. I'm not sure this will be fixed with the newer USB standards.

jessaustin 11y ago
In my experience, many micro-USB cables that won't charge simply have worn plugs. That is, if you wiggle it just right, it will charge, but when you leave it lying on the desk it won't. However a new cable of the exact same SKU will fit so tight you can hang the phone from a wall socket with it. I think this is good engineering, because something will wear out, and it's much less bother to replace a $2 cable than it is to fix a worn-out USB jack in your phone.