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It is rather sad you have been downvoted, but alas in these PC days, not surprising. You are of course right, the audience here, of all places, should seek furt

It is rather sad you have been downvoted, but alas in these PC days, not surprising. You are of course right, the audience here, of all places, should seek further education, and whilst pointing out the horrors of slavery, should not take the simplified modernistic version of suited Westerners sailing over, grabbing a boat load of locals and sailing them back for work. It was and is far more complicated than that. There is a reason it was called the 'Slave Trade' for a reason - the locals were more than happy to sell their bretheren. That is probably the saddest point of it all. Well, sadest is that slavery still exists in most of the world, and yet we seem to consider it a relic from the past.

benbreen 11y ago
No one who studies the Atlantic slave trade (or the Indian Ocean slave trade for that matter) is going to deny that slavery existed in various forms in pre-colonial Africa. But there's an enormous difference between pre-colonial slavery and the system that began to emerge under the Portuguese, Spanish, and English in the 16th century - both in terms of sheer numbers, and (in many cases) in terms of the severity of conditions for slaves. It's analogous to constantly pointing out that Roman iron forges created air pollution in the 2nd century CE whenever people talk about 20th century environmental issues. I don't disagree that the general public should be educated about the multi-sited nature of slavery of course; as an historian of this period I just wanted to point out that the people who actually study and teach this stuff are not trying to portray it as a solely European phenomenon. However it is inarguably the case that the early modern European empires were responsible for upgrading both the scale and severity of a pre-existing slave system. Anyway, to add something substantive here, I figured I'd link to the Transatlantic Slave Trade Database, which is (from my point of view at least) one of the most significant achievements in historical scholarship in the last few decades: http://www.slavevoyages.org/tast/index.faces http://www.slavevoyages.org/tast/index.faces
- recibe 11y ago
  That's hardly the case. The glaring issue here is that research funding is habitually allocated to keep this wound open - ostensibly in some demented attempt at black empowerment.
aidos 11y ago
I wouldn't jump to the conclusion that the downvotes were related to the subject of the comment. More likely, they were to do with the way it (and the other comments on this thread by bruant) were presented. It would have taken no effort to have phrased the idea in a way that invited others to discuss it and learn more about it. Instead it was an, evidently, unwelcome (and totally unjustified) stab at the people who might be reading. benbreen's comment was far more interesting and made me want to learn more about the subject.
webdevsblow 11y ago
Even your comment has gone grey. Open minds are left behind in the hivemind groupthink of HN, so even small correct observations get penalised.
- recibe 11y ago
  Ironic to see the wealthiest, most celebrated practitioners of logic so determined to ignore facts incompatible with their beliefs.

benbreen 11y ago

No one who studies the Atlantic slave trade (or the Indian Ocean slave trade for that matter) is going to deny that slavery existed in various forms in pre-colonial Africa. But there's an enormous difference between pre-colonial slavery and the system that began to emerge under the Portuguese, Spanish, and English in the 16th century - both in terms of sheer numbers, and (in many cases) in terms of the severity of conditions for slaves. It's analogous to constantly pointing out that Roman iron forges created air pollution in the 2nd century CE whenever people talk about 20th century environmental issues. I don't disagree that the general public should be educated about the multi-sited nature of slavery of course; as an historian of this period I just wanted to point out that the people who actually study and teach this stuff are not trying to portray it as a solely European phenomenon. However it is inarguably the case that the early modern European empires were responsible for upgrading both the scale and severity of a pre-existing slave system. Anyway, to add something substantive here, I figured I'd link to the Transatlantic Slave Trade Database, which is (from my point of view at least) one of the most significant achievements in historical scholarship in the last few decades: http://www.slavevoyages.org/tast/index.faces http://www.slavevoyages.org/tast/index.faces

recibe 11y ago
That's hardly the case. The glaring issue here is that research funding is habitually allocated to keep this wound open - ostensibly in some demented attempt at black empowerment.

aidos 11y ago

I wouldn't jump to the conclusion that the downvotes were related to the subject of the comment. More likely, they were to do with the way it (and the other comments on this thread by bruant) were presented. It would have taken no effort to have phrased the idea in a way that invited others to discuss it and learn more about it. Instead it was an, evidently, unwelcome (and totally unjustified) stab at the people who might be reading. benbreen's comment was far more interesting and made me want to learn more about the subject.

webdevsblow 11y ago

Even your comment has gone grey. Open minds are left behind in the hivemind groupthink of HN, so even small correct observations get penalised.

recibe 11y ago
Ironic to see the wealthiest, most celebrated practitioners of logic so determined to ignore facts incompatible with their beliefs.