5 ms·

Murderers get less than that. We are truly an interesting society, aren't we - somehow kids doing LSD, a mostly harmless substance, is causing us more harm, as

Murderers get less than that. We are truly an interesting society, aren't we - somehow kids doing LSD, a mostly harmless substance, is causing us more harm, as a society, than, say, violence?

api 11y ago
If he really did attempt to order a hit on someone, that changes the game a little. Now we're no longer talking about just drugs. But I agree that it's absolutely insane if the charges are just drug-related -- rapists get far less time than many drug dealers.
- TillE 11y ago
  As far as I can tell, he wasn't actually convicted of anything like that.
  - chc 11y ago
    He wasn't distinctly charged with it, but according to the document tptacek linked earlier (https://s3.amazonaws.com/s3.documentcloud.org/documents/1391926/gov-uscourts-nysd-422824-142-0.pdf https://s3.amazonaws.com/s3.documentcloud.org/documents/1391...), the attempted murders for hire were considered to be an element of the criminal enterprise and conspiracy he was running. He was convicted of those charges, so as far as I can tell, he was convicted of something like that.
- fixermark 11y ago
  He wasn't just a drug dealer. The crimes he was charged with are in the massive criminal conspiracy category.
  - Squarel 11y ago
    Drug dealers tend to handle the drugs they are convicted of selling. Whilst I agree he deliberately set up a website designed for use for criminal transactions, I find it ridiculous that everyone (including the courts) would rather focus on people buying drugs online (if that was their big thing, then many of the major early newsgroup operators would be in prison for life, for having not even concealed names for newsgroups deliberately designed for buying and selling drugs), than on the selling of stolen credit cards and other identity theft sales. Sure, drugs are bad m'kay, and we have to stomp on people who use, buy and sell them or something, but, how many lives are destroyed by identity theft? Or do the courts think that is too complicated for people to understand, whilst the "He let drugs be sold on his website" is something even Fox News can communicate.
collinvandyck76 11y ago
Ulbricht was also convicted of hiring a hitman. edit: this is something that vice news [0] reported that is apparently wrong. > But despite these setbacks, Ulbricht was ultimately convicted in February on a raft of charges, including drug trafficking, computer hacking, money laundering, and hiring assassins to take out members of Silk Road. [0]: https://news.vice.com/article/ross-ulbricht-convicted-mastermind-behind-silk-road-website-sentenced-to-life-in-prison?utm_source=vicenewstwitter https://news.vice.com/article/ross-ulbricht-convicted-master...
- iM8t 11y ago
  Do we actually have any proof of that or is it just something that the media is feeding us?
  - teraflop 11y ago
    If by "proof" you mean "evidence", there are journal entries from DPR's laptop describing the attempted killings, records of messages between him and the would-be killer, and Bitcoin transaction records of the sizable payments involved. It certainly wasn't invented by the media.
- amyjess 11y ago
  No, he wasn't. He was never even charged with that; the story of one attempt to hire a hitman was admitted into the trial as evidence that he was running the Silk Road and knew what he was doing, but that was never one of the actual charges against him.
  - tptacek 11y ago
    The prosecution sentencing memo rebuts this argument, pointing out that Ulbricht's attempts to procure murder for hire were explicit factual components of one of the charges he faced. Ulbricht's argument to the effect that he wasn't properly charged with the murder-for-hire scheme was addressed in detail by the court: https://s3.amazonaws.com/s3.documentcloud.org/documents/1391926/gov-uscourts-nysd-422824-142-0.pdf https://s3.amazonaws.com/s3.documentcloud.org/documents/1391...
dragonwriter 11y ago
> Murderers get less than that. Or the same. Or more, in the form of the death penalty.
iaw 11y ago
I suspect that law enforcement's embarrassment over how long it took them to find him also had something to do with it. The equivalent of running from the police in a foot chase, they're going to punish you for it.
- omegaham 11y ago
  "If the police have to come get you, they're bringing an ass-kicking with 'em."
hebdo 11y ago
How do you know LSD is mostly harmless?
- shit_parade2 11y ago
  At least physically it one the safest known chemicals when comparing the amount needed to notice an effect and the LD50 rating.
  - hebdo 11y ago
    Well yes, you are right. But just the fact that something is difficult to overdose does not imply long-term safety of use. And as far as I know there are know connections between certain psychiatric issues and LSD usage. This is why I do not believe that "LSD is basically harmless".
    - shit_parade2 11y ago
      Any credible studies to link? The LD50 was extensively document, your claim is essentially vodoo.
      - Adlai 11y ago
        http://journals.plos.org/plosone/article?id=10.1371/journal.pone.0063972 http://journals.plos.org/plosone/article?id=10.1371/journal.... Conclusion: We did not find use of psychedelics to be an independent risk factor for mental health problems.
      - hebdo 11y ago
        Yes, of course. I just thought that flashbacks and other LSD complications are common knowledge. Take a look at this Wikipedia section: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lysergic_acid_diethylamide#Adverse_effects https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lysergic_acid_diethylamide#Adv...
        jabscam2013 11y ago
wz1000 11y ago
Yes, the Pickard bust[0] was an interesting example of this. A highly productive, extremely smart and insightful researcher was given two(!) life sentences(something even most violent criminals, rapists and murderers don't get) at a high security prison. His crime was manufacturing LSD, which has no recorded overdoses, is not addictive, and reports of it harming users are extremely rare. Here[1] is a brief account of his heartbreaking story, and here[2] is more information about him, also containing links to recent papers that he published. [0]- http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/William_Leonard_Pickard http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/William_Leonard_Pickard [1]- http://www.sfgate.com/crime/article/William-Pickard-s-long-strange-trip-Suspected-2910096.php http://www.sfgate.com/crime/article/William-Pickard-s-long-s... [2]- https://www.erowid.org/culture/characters/pickard_leonard/ https://www.erowid.org/culture/characters/pickard_leonard/

Murderers get less than that. We are truly an interesting society, aren't we - somehow kids doing LSD, a mostly harmless substance, is causing us more harm, as a society, than, say, violence?

api 11y ago

If he really did attempt to order a hit on someone, that changes the game a little. Now we're no longer talking about just drugs. But I agree that it's absolutely insane if the charges are just drug-related -- rapists get far less time than many drug dealers.

TillE 11y ago
As far as I can tell, he wasn't actually convicted of anything like that.
- chc 11y ago
  He wasn't distinctly charged with it, but according to the document tptacek linked earlier (https://s3.amazonaws.com/s3.documentcloud.org/documents/1391926/gov-uscourts-nysd-422824-142-0.pdf https://s3.amazonaws.com/s3.documentcloud.org/documents/1391...), the attempted murders for hire were considered to be an element of the criminal enterprise and conspiracy he was running. He was convicted of those charges, so as far as I can tell, he was convicted of something like that.
fixermark 11y ago
He wasn't just a drug dealer. The crimes he was charged with are in the massive criminal conspiracy category.
- Squarel 11y ago
  Drug dealers tend to handle the drugs they are convicted of selling. Whilst I agree he deliberately set up a website designed for use for criminal transactions, I find it ridiculous that everyone (including the courts) would rather focus on people buying drugs online (if that was their big thing, then many of the major early newsgroup operators would be in prison for life, for having not even concealed names for newsgroups deliberately designed for buying and selling drugs), than on the selling of stolen credit cards and other identity theft sales. Sure, drugs are bad m'kay, and we have to stomp on people who use, buy and sell them or something, but, how many lives are destroyed by identity theft? Or do the courts think that is too complicated for people to understand, whilst the "He let drugs be sold on his website" is something even Fox News can communicate.

collinvandyck76 11y ago

Ulbricht was also convicted of hiring a hitman. edit: this is something that vice news [0] reported that is apparently wrong. > But despite these setbacks, Ulbricht was ultimately convicted in February on a raft of charges, including drug trafficking, computer hacking, money laundering, and hiring assassins to take out members of Silk Road. [0]: https://news.vice.com/article/ross-ulbricht-convicted-mastermind-behind-silk-road-website-sentenced-to-life-in-prison?utm_source=vicenewstwitter https://news.vice.com/article/ross-ulbricht-convicted-master...

iM8t 11y ago
Do we actually have any proof of that or is it just something that the media is feeding us?
- teraflop 11y ago
  If by "proof" you mean "evidence", there are journal entries from DPR's laptop describing the attempted killings, records of messages between him and the would-be killer, and Bitcoin transaction records of the sizable payments involved. It certainly wasn't invented by the media.
amyjess 11y ago
No, he wasn't. He was never even charged with that; the story of one attempt to hire a hitman was admitted into the trial as evidence that he was running the Silk Road and knew what he was doing, but that was never one of the actual charges against him.
- tptacek 11y ago
  The prosecution sentencing memo rebuts this argument, pointing out that Ulbricht's attempts to procure murder for hire were explicit factual components of one of the charges he faced. Ulbricht's argument to the effect that he wasn't properly charged with the murder-for-hire scheme was addressed in detail by the court: https://s3.amazonaws.com/s3.documentcloud.org/documents/1391926/gov-uscourts-nysd-422824-142-0.pdf https://s3.amazonaws.com/s3.documentcloud.org/documents/1391...

dragonwriter 11y ago

> Murderers get less than that. Or the same. Or more, in the form of the death penalty.

iaw 11y ago

I suspect that law enforcement's embarrassment over how long it took them to find him also had something to do with it. The equivalent of running from the police in a foot chase, they're going to punish you for it.

omegaham 11y ago
"If the police have to come get you, they're bringing an ass-kicking with 'em."

hebdo 11y ago

How do you know LSD is mostly harmless?

shit_parade2 11y ago
At least physically it one the safest known chemicals when comparing the amount needed to notice an effect and the LD50 rating.
- hebdo 11y ago
  Well yes, you are right. But just the fact that something is difficult to overdose does not imply long-term safety of use. And as far as I know there are know connections between certain psychiatric issues and LSD usage. This is why I do not believe that "LSD is basically harmless".
  - shit_parade2 11y ago
    Any credible studies to link? The LD50 was extensively document, your claim is essentially vodoo.
    - Adlai 11y ago
      http://journals.plos.org/plosone/article?id=10.1371/journal.pone.0063972 http://journals.plos.org/plosone/article?id=10.1371/journal.... Conclusion: We did not find use of psychedelics to be an independent risk factor for mental health problems.
    - hebdo 11y ago
      Yes, of course. I just thought that flashbacks and other LSD complications are common knowledge. Take a look at this Wikipedia section: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lysergic_acid_diethylamide#Adverse_effects https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lysergic_acid_diethylamide#Adv...
      - jabscam2013 11y ago

wz1000 11y ago

Yes, the Pickard bust[0] was an interesting example of this. A highly productive, extremely smart and insightful researcher was given two(!) life sentences(something even most violent criminals, rapists and murderers don't get) at a high security prison. His crime was manufacturing LSD, which has no recorded overdoses, is not addictive, and reports of it harming users are extremely rare. Here[1] is a brief account of his heartbreaking story, and here[2] is more information about him, also containing links to recent papers that he published. [0]- http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/William_Leonard_Pickard http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/William_Leonard_Pickard [1]- http://www.sfgate.com/crime/article/William-Pickard-s-long-strange-trip-Suspected-2910096.php http://www.sfgate.com/crime/article/William-Pickard-s-long-s... [2]- https://www.erowid.org/culture/characters/pickard_leonard/ https://www.erowid.org/culture/characters/pickard_leonard/