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Just to play devil's advocate -- and taking several levels of cynicism as a given -- the energy security of the USA is worth far more than what we ended up spen
by timr 11y ago
Just to play devil's advocate -- and taking several levels of cynicism as a given -- the energy security of the USA is worth far more than what we ended up spending on the Iraq war.
For all the money that the EU has spent on the LHC, it hasn't really paid off to that extent. Even if you consider "the web" as part of that payoff, it's not the equivalent of guaranteeing every person in the western world stable access to cheap energy.
(I'm not saying I agree with that rationale for our adventures in Iraq, I just don't think it's quite fair to make the comparison you're making. There's more at stake in Iraq than a stable democracy for a small country.)
- btilly 11y agoFYI, "the internet" can be fairly credited to DARPA in the USA. It is "the web" that can be credited to the LHC.
- timr 11y agoYep, that's what I meant. Updated!
- Retric 11y agoIn a lesser known twist there was heavy debate on the SGML working group that documents shuld have embedded links. For various reasons that did not come to pass but it Effectivly pushed back the web by 5 years until HTML showed up. Presumably if DNS has been out just a little bit sooner the web would have taken off much sooner. Though computer cost and limitations may have set slowed adoption. http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Standard_Generalized_Markup_Language http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Standard_Generalized_Markup_L...
- lolive 11y agoThe web phenomenom is the appearance of four major components in a very short period of time: - HTML - HTTP - a graphical browser that even my mother can use - freely deployable web server software component Sure, HTML is an important piece of the cake. But the most important one is definitely ... (well, choose for yourself :)
- PhasmaFelis 11y ago> It is "the web" that can be credited to the LHC. I've missed something. Could you elaborate?
- Retric 11y agoI can see that as a justification for the first Iraq war, but the second only increased oil prices and destabilized the region.
- kiba 11y agoJust to play devil's advocate -- and taking several levels of cynicism as a given -- the energy security of the USA is worth far more than what we ended up spending on the Iraq war. I don't think we went to Iraq for the oil.
- SilasX 11y agoWe could have technologically guaranteed the energy security of the US for a lot less than the budget cost of the Iraq war (which itself ignores the costs of the lost lives and soured diplomatic relations). For $1 trillion we could have blanketed the deserts with solar arrays, Manhattan Project'd fusion, and developed synthetic fuel technology that would have let us turn grid energy into liquid fuels. The amount spent was truly mind-boggling, and the opportunity cost hard to grasp.
- timr 11y agoI think you missed the part where I said that I don't buy it as a justification for our adventures in Iraq.
- SilasX 11y agoNo, I saw that. My point was that, even if you did justify the war by how it provided energy security, there were far cheaper ways to obtain that security.
- timr 11y agoWhich, again, had nothing to do with my point. I said that I don't buy it as an argument for the war. But I'm not trying to justify the war. I'm saying that the comparison made by the OP between the supercollider and the war isn't valid.
- SilasX 11y agoHow is it irrelevant whether research investments would have more efficiently achieved the war's aims? Why would that not validate the comparison between the supercollider and a war for energy security?
- soup10 11y agoMaybe, but it's not like people aren't already working on those things. If they were easy problems they would of been solved already. We do actually spend a ton of money on government funded R&D but it's also terribly inefficient in how it's allocated. Grant system is terribly designed. Maybe it reduces corruption but hard to believe the trade-off of not really knowing the people/teams/companies being funded is worth it.