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Hi. I'm a software engineer. Show me a union whose membership improves my life, and I'll be happy to talk. Bear in mind that improves is present-tense for a re

by Kalium 11y ago

Hi. I'm a software engineer. Show me a union whose membership improves my life, and I'll be happy to talk. Bear in mind that improves is present-tense for a reason.

eli_gottlieb 11y ago
> Hi. I'm a software engineer. Show me a union whose membership improves my life, and I'll be happy to talk. Want to join the Industrial Workers of the World?
- phkahler 11y ago
  You seem to have missed the the "show me" part.
- Kalium 11y ago
  In what way in joining the Wobblies going to improve my life?
bkeroack 11y ago
We don't need a union per se, but a professional association (aka guild) would be fantastic. As professionals we need to stop letting employers be the sole arbiter of competency, and we also need to institute a code of engineering ethics that is independent and based on sound theory and practice (rather than whatever the business wants at any given time). Imagine being SEOA (Software Engineer Association of America) Level 1 certified and never having to do Fizz Buzz at an interview again. Or a Glassdoor-like employer database that gives you a clue what you might be walking into. Independent health insurance coverage, etc. There could be lots of great ways it would improve the average engineer's life.
- kasey_junk 11y ago
  Also imagine not being able to get a job because you tried to implement some new and cutting edge process or program and were black balled for life. That's also what guilds do.
- xenophonf 11y ago
  I shudder in horror. While I personally am your average classically trained CSSE grad, many of my friends and family are autodidacts who created for themselves very successful careers in IT and software engineering. I cannot see how a guild would help them, and frankly the deplorable state of modern IT certifications plus the similarly large pool of friends and family who do _and_ don't test well would make me continue to Fizz Buzz (and more) potential recruits no matter who says they've got programming chops.
- Kalium 11y ago
  The ACM already has a reasonably sound code of ethics.
walterbell 11y ago
Why are tech writers and programmers treated differently in the law? Recruiter collective lobbying: http://andreas.com/faq-overtime.html http://andreas.com/faq-overtime.html "The recruiters accepted our exemptions because they were going after bigger fish: the engineers. The computer engineers who work as W-2 contractors are generally earning $100-300/hr and often work 60-80 hours per week. The recruiters were afraid that if such workers were entitled to overtime pay, the companies may cut overtime work, and therefore the recruiters would lose their 30-50% share of that money (this can be much as $6,000 per week to a recruiter for a single worker.) Engineers have always refused to organize or even to be aware of their interests: they think recruiters are their friends. One engineer said to me: "Engineers think they're so smart that no one could do such a thing to them. Wow. They got really screwed." The law is an annual loss of as much as $50-75,000 dollars per each engineer. Yep, it's legal. The recuiters wrote a law to take away their money. Silicon Valley engineers were plundered by their "friends"."

by Kalium 11y ago

Hi. I'm a software engineer. Show me a union whose membership improves my life, and I'll be happy to talk. Bear in mind that improves is present-tense for a reason.

eli_gottlieb 11y ago

> Hi. I'm a software engineer. Show me a union whose membership improves my life, and I'll be happy to talk. Want to join the Industrial Workers of the World?

phkahler 11y ago
You seem to have missed the the "show me" part.
Kalium 11y ago
In what way in joining the Wobblies going to improve my life?

bkeroack 11y ago

We don't need a union per se, but a professional association (aka guild) would be fantastic. As professionals we need to stop letting employers be the sole arbiter of competency, and we also need to institute a code of engineering ethics that is independent and based on sound theory and practice (rather than whatever the business wants at any given time). Imagine being SEOA (Software Engineer Association of America) Level 1 certified and never having to do Fizz Buzz at an interview again. Or a Glassdoor-like employer database that gives you a clue what you might be walking into. Independent health insurance coverage, etc. There could be lots of great ways it would improve the average engineer's life.

kasey_junk 11y ago
Also imagine not being able to get a job because you tried to implement some new and cutting edge process or program and were black balled for life. That's also what guilds do.
xenophonf 11y ago
I shudder in horror. While I personally am your average classically trained CSSE grad, many of my friends and family are autodidacts who created for themselves very successful careers in IT and software engineering. I cannot see how a guild would help them, and frankly the deplorable state of modern IT certifications plus the similarly large pool of friends and family who do _and_ don't test well would make me continue to Fizz Buzz (and more) potential recruits no matter who says they've got programming chops.
Kalium 11y ago
The ACM already has a reasonably sound code of ethics.

walterbell 11y ago

Why are tech writers and programmers treated differently in the law? Recruiter collective lobbying: http://andreas.com/faq-overtime.html http://andreas.com/faq-overtime.html "The recruiters accepted our exemptions because they were going after bigger fish: the engineers. The computer engineers who work as W-2 contractors are generally earning $100-300/hr and often work 60-80 hours per week. The recruiters were afraid that if such workers were entitled to overtime pay, the companies may cut overtime work, and therefore the recruiters would lose their 30-50% share of that money (this can be much as $6,000 per week to a recruiter for a single worker.) Engineers have always refused to organize or even to be aware of their interests: they think recruiters are their friends. One engineer said to me: "Engineers think they're so smart that no one could do such a thing to them. Wow. They got really screwed." The law is an annual loss of as much as $50-75,000 dollars per each engineer. Yep, it's legal. The recuiters wrote a law to take away their money. Silicon Valley engineers were plundered by their "friends"."