3 ms·

Not really sure what to make of the article. Some anecdotal evidence of some book smart but not people smart interns. And attacking the very purpose of a univer

by yardie 17y ago

Not really sure what to make of the article. Some anecdotal evidence of some book smart but not people smart interns. And attacking the very purpose of a university education. The author romanticizes the work office far too much. And while most people go to university to get a cushy office job some things (education) will never make sense in the office. I've gone to company trainings and the curriculum and atmosphere is more like the university lecture hall than an office. Could you imagine sitting at your desk watching a powerpoint on the greatest programming language ever? His idea of the university is more like a degree mill than a place of higher education. Highschools are great for this type of thing. The bar is particularly low. And once you've met it you never have to go back again. Colleges aren't designed that way. You go because you are looking for a detailed answer. And you are capable of understanding the answer. And I know for a fact that professors have no qualms about F's.

Alex3917 17y ago
"His idea of the university is more like a degree mill than a place of higher education." I don't mean to put words in Philip's mouth, especially ones that are very controversial, but having read him for the last ten years I think he realizes this and the reason he proposes these changes is that he thinks it's the best you can do, given that most Ivy League professors are extremely stupid and bad at their jobs. Now I'm not saying I fully agree with this, just that I'm pretty sure this is why he proposes some of the things that he does. The funny thing is that this is actually less cynical and more optimistic than what he used to say, which was that most Ivy League students were just extremely stupid. (Which is basically what he was saying around the time when Philip and Alex was published.)
- barry-cotter 17y ago
  He's not saying Ivy League professors are extremely stupid and bad at their jobs. He's saying they're really, really bad at teaching, because there's no incentive for them to be good at teaching. Outside of community colleges and are there any US third level institutions that value teaching over research? I'm sure compared to him most Ivy League students are extremely stupid. Maybe he's had more contact withthe general population and he now realises what the average really looks like.
nopinsight 17y ago
> Could you imagine sitting at your desk watching a powerpoint on the greatest programming language ever? I agree watching Powerpoint will be boring, but it is simply a supplement to real learning in his proposed system--working on projects. Also, you can skip unedifying parts, unlike with live lectures. > His idea of the university is more like a degree mill than a place of higher education. Not really. The current system seems more like a degree mill than his. When you can get A's and B's in many courses just by reading a few nights before exam time, that is a waste of four years. If you need to work on challenging projects while learning theory to make them work, you'll definitely learn more than just taking exams and quizzes (with occasional exercises).
- yardie 17y ago
  I agree the low level courses aren't very interesting. But when you are teaching to a class of thousands there really isn't a better method. Project based work only works when the students are interested and can be engaged. This is what I was told the 100 levels were about anyway. Weeding out those that don't take the material serious from the ones that do. And it's very rare I've had a lecture that I couldn't skip. The professor posted the lecture online including pdfs and podcasts. Unedifying is highly subjective. A particular part of the material that might seem easy to you could be difficult for someone else. But cancelling the lecture all together won't be a solution. >> I assume this depends on the subject and the teacher. Courses that I thought were going to be easy (Intro to Art History for example) turned out to demanding than they let you believe. Maybe things have gotten worse since I was in college (even though SAT scores keep going up). When I left highschool projects and labs had to be dropped due to budget constraints. (School couldn't afford the glass nor the insurance from what I heard). When I arrived at uni, a technical uni, collaborative, project assignments were a major component. The midterm and final were used to pad out your grade. I.E. if you had strong project grades and 1 bad exam grade it couldn't be used against you. And I've heard of students only showing up for only the midterm and final, but I doubt you could get away with it for engineering or the sciences.
dhyasama 17y ago
There is a lot of pressure on professors to not give F's. Google "grade inflation" and you can read much about it. http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&client=safari&rls=en&q=%22grade+inflation%22&aq=f&oq=&aqi=g10 http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&client=safari&rls...

by yardie 17y ago

Alex3917 17y ago

"His idea of the university is more like a degree mill than a place of higher education." I don't mean to put words in Philip's mouth, especially ones that are very controversial, but having read him for the last ten years I think he realizes this and the reason he proposes these changes is that he thinks it's the best you can do, given that most Ivy League professors are extremely stupid and bad at their jobs. Now I'm not saying I fully agree with this, just that I'm pretty sure this is why he proposes some of the things that he does. The funny thing is that this is actually less cynical and more optimistic than what he used to say, which was that most Ivy League students were just extremely stupid. (Which is basically what he was saying around the time when Philip and Alex was published.)

barry-cotter 17y ago
He's not saying Ivy League professors are extremely stupid and bad at their jobs. He's saying they're really, really bad at teaching, because there's no incentive for them to be good at teaching. Outside of community colleges and are there any US third level institutions that value teaching over research? I'm sure compared to him most Ivy League students are extremely stupid. Maybe he's had more contact withthe general population and he now realises what the average really looks like.

nopinsight 17y ago

> Could you imagine sitting at your desk watching a powerpoint on the greatest programming language ever? I agree watching Powerpoint will be boring, but it is simply a supplement to real learning in his proposed system--working on projects. Also, you can skip unedifying parts, unlike with live lectures. > His idea of the university is more like a degree mill than a place of higher education. Not really. The current system seems more like a degree mill than his. When you can get A's and B's in many courses just by reading a few nights before exam time, that is a waste of four years. If you need to work on challenging projects while learning theory to make them work, you'll definitely learn more than just taking exams and quizzes (with occasional exercises).

yardie 17y ago
I agree the low level courses aren't very interesting. But when you are teaching to a class of thousands there really isn't a better method. Project based work only works when the students are interested and can be engaged. This is what I was told the 100 levels were about anyway. Weeding out those that don't take the material serious from the ones that do. And it's very rare I've had a lecture that I couldn't skip. The professor posted the lecture online including pdfs and podcasts. Unedifying is highly subjective. A particular part of the material that might seem easy to you could be difficult for someone else. But cancelling the lecture all together won't be a solution. >> I assume this depends on the subject and the teacher. Courses that I thought were going to be easy (Intro to Art History for example) turned out to demanding than they let you believe. Maybe things have gotten worse since I was in college (even though SAT scores keep going up). When I left highschool projects and labs had to be dropped due to budget constraints. (School couldn't afford the glass nor the insurance from what I heard). When I arrived at uni, a technical uni, collaborative, project assignments were a major component. The midterm and final were used to pad out your grade. I.E. if you had strong project grades and 1 bad exam grade it couldn't be used against you. And I've heard of students only showing up for only the midterm and final, but I doubt you could get away with it for engineering or the sciences.

dhyasama 17y ago

There is a lot of pressure on professors to not give F's. Google "grade inflation" and you can read much about it. http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&client=safari&rls=en&q=%22grade+inflation%22&aq=f&oq=&aqi=g10 http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&client=safari&rls...