14 ms·

It seems like the DOJ is doing the same thing they would do against a gang; get a few lower-level people to take a plea deal and hand over the kingpin. There's

It seems like the DOJ is doing the same thing they would do against a gang; get a few lower-level people to take a plea deal and hand over the kingpin. There's no way Blatter gets through this unscathed. It will be interesting to see if the World Cup will be moved now; it never made sense to have it in Qatar in the first place (no infrastructure, incredibly hot during the summer, hundreds of migrant workers dying and injured because of the insane conditions they're working under to prepare the stadiums. It's really, really messed up. I've never seen /r/soccer so happy about anything - this news has 99%+ upvotes.

peteretep 11y ago
> There's no way Blatter gets through this unscathed I suspect if you find a good online betting site, you would get someone to take the other side of that bet at attractive odds.
- zimpenfish 11y ago
  And if people have money to throw away like that, they could just as well throw it to my bank account. As someone pointed out on Twitter, "oh look, the only people left to vote on Friday are Blatter-friendly".
  - notsony 11y ago
    FIFA is not a public institution, it's a private association. How a private club wants to structure payments is entirely up to them. So how will any bribery charges stick, unless public officials have been paid off? Can't believe Blatter and his cronies would be so stupid, but perhaps some of the weaker and greedier executives were, so Blatter is happy to serve them up?
    - hvs 11y ago
      I'm guessing the DOJ has something figured out.
      - notsony 11y ago
        Authorities accused Dominique Strauss-Kahn, head of the IMF, of raping a maid in a New York hotel and made him do the perp walk in front of the cameras. What happened in the end? Career ruined but all charges dropped.
        dragonwriter 11y ago
        > Authorities accused Dominique Strauss-Kahn, head of the IMF, of raping a maid in a New York hotel and made him do the perp walk in front of the cameras. What happened in the end? Well, the "end" is hard to assess. What has happened so far is a series of investigations begun and dropped over various sex-related crimes until the current set for "aggravated pimping" for which he was tried this past February with the verdict to be read in June.
        peteretep 11y ago
        Would you have rather they hadn't indicted and charged a man accused of rape, where there was (as I understand it) DNA evidence suggesting a sexual encounter had taken place?
    - dragonwriter 11y ago
      > FIFA is not a public institution, it's a private association. How a private club wants to structure payments is entirely up to them. The bribery charges aren't about payments to FIFA, they are about payments (for instance) that constitute fraud against FIFA (and various other subordinate soccer organizations, among others) as an organization. [0] In some cases, these are frauds that were being investigated when the relevant officials resigned from FIFA (ending the FIFA investigations, but not retroactively negating the fraud.) While organizations current executives may have power over the organization, they aren't legally indistinguishable from the organization. > Can't believe Blatter and his cronies would be so stupid Its not uncommon for powerful people with a tendency to corruption to be, or become after years of smaller transgressions not seeming to have consequences, arrogant enough to commit major transgressions that authorities are willing and able to prosecute. [0] https://s3.amazonaws.com/s3.documentcloud.org/documents/2088910/fifa-charging-documents.pdf https://s3.amazonaws.com/s3.documentcloud.org/documents/2088...
petepete 11y ago
It'll be the top post ever in /r/soccer in no time, it's already fourth and was only submitted four hours ago. I truly hope that Blatter is ousted, the Qatar decision is reversed and given to a nation that with a less-appalling human rights record and some actual interest in football. I can't name a single Qatari club or player and know nothing of their league (other than Gabriel Batistuta played there for a year at the end of his career), and I'd consider myself to be someone who knowns a fair bit about football.
- iwwr 11y ago
  Apparently, hosting a World Cup has become a net negative to a country. The costs (significant and increasing) go to the government and the profits go to FIFA and the sponsors.
  - btdollar 11y ago
    Just like with the Olympics. Does FIFA force the government to pass censorious laws as well?
  - xasos 11y ago
    Yep, its really sad. It also applies for events like the Olympics, where infrastructure improvements are mandatory, and costs far outweigh any profit they may receive.
    - iaskwhy 11y ago
      Which is why I support all these competitions to follow Euro 2020's idea: 13 cities in 13 countries. This one, the costs per nation are much lower and we stop seeing nations building new huge stadiums which are then completely empty and unused most of the time (like some of those built in Portugal in 2004).
      - jmngomes 11y ago
        "huge stadiums which are then completely empty and unused most of the time (like some of those built in Portugal in 2004)" Not "some of those built in Portugal in 2004" but actually most of them are currently being used way below capacity. And some of them are actually causing financial problems for the local governments, as the stadiums generate little to no revenue and the maintenance costs are huge. But everyone involved in getting them built, apart from the guys laying down the bricks, profited hugely from this absurd and pharaonic decision, and the taxpayers didn't really complain properly (and still don't).
ino 11y ago
> hundreds of migrant workers dying and injured because of the insane conditions they're working under to prepare the stadiums Thousands even, and the sad thing is the number of slavery condition migrant workers have been very high in Qatar and the Emirates since the start of this golden age. Let's hope some things improve for those who suffer the most. And fuck FIFA.
Cyph0n 11y ago
In what sense does Qatar have "no infrastructure"?
- austenallred 11y ago
  Specifically soccer-related infrastructure, i.e. stadiums. The United States could host four World Cups simultaneously without having to build any more stadiums. Qatar has to build almost everything from scratch.
  - hcho 11y ago
    Lack of infrastructure is not the crazy bit. Everyone knows that they have the money to throw at the problem. The fact that all games of WC will be played in one city is the problem. All the fans in contact for a prolonged span...It won't end well.
    - austenallred 11y ago
      > Everyone knows that they have the money to throw at the problem. They may have money to throw at the problem, but Nepalese migrants building the infrastructure to host the 2022 World Cup died at a rate of almost one per day. Look at the full report, it's astounding: * Evidence of forced labour on a huge World Cup infrastructure project. * Some Nepalese men have alleged that they have not been paid for months and have had their salaries retained to stop them running away. * Some workers on other sites say employers routinely confiscate passports and refuse to issue ID cards, in effect reducing them to the status of illegal aliens. * Some labourers say they have been denied access to free drinking water in the desert heat. http://www.theguardian.com/world/2013/sep/25/revealed-qatars-world-cup-slaves http://www.theguardian.com/world/2013/sep/25/revealed-qatars...
      - hcho 11y ago
        Yes, Indian, Pakistani and Bangladeshi nationals had similar experiences. As a matter of fact they have been experiencing this for decades in the region. Have the wrong passport and you are a slave.
aikah 11y ago
/s/hundreds/thousands working under the kalafa , the euphemism for slavery in middle east. Slavery exists everywhere(yes even in Europe and US) but it's generally not something organized at the state level, it is usually illegal.
- SEJeff 11y ago
  Where does slavery exist in the US? You know we had a war about that an all... It didn't end up super well for the slavers.
  - TillE 11y ago
    The term generally used is "human trafficking". http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Human_trafficking_in_the_United_States http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Human_trafficking_in_the_United...
  - krisdol 11y ago
    (Private) Prisons. Prisoners have no labor rights in the US and earn cents per hour making textiles, office furniture, military wire, id-tags, vests, etc. Private prison corporations contract out this labor to clients like the DoD, Wal-Mart, Costco, etc. It creates an incentive for the prison industry to lobby for more prisons, tougher anti-crime laws, tougher border crossing penalties, longer sentences. The profits incentivize a total lack of addressing recidivism. 1 out of 4 prisoners in the world occupy a US prison (we account for what? 4-5% of the world's population?). Violent crimes have been trending down over 20 years, but prisoner population as a percentage is at an all time high due to tougher drug convictions. Also, then there's huge factory farms, which are known to use migrants of questionable citizenship as laborers, and report them to the police when they complain.
    - SEJeff 11y ago
      I certainly wouldn't call illegal immigrants slaves. They generally speaking work under stolen identities and pay taxes for non-cash payment just like the rest of us. For those that do work strictly for cash, yes what you said does happen, but they are breaking the law to begin with by being illegal immigrants. The current US administration has made it a lot easier for said illegals to get less scetchy jobs via the DREAM act and the associated legal things. The points you bring up about prisoners is interesting. I've always found the moral idea of a for-profit prison as reprehensible.
martijn_himself 11y ago
Blatter has survived multiple arrests of senior FIFA officials in the past, there is no indication this time will be different. The only way Blatter will step down is if a major football country association or group of associations (e.g. Germany, Spain, Holland) threaten to leave FIFA if he doesn't.
- deleted 11y ago
  [deleted]
- ondiekijunior 11y ago
  Even if hey left, with 200 member countries it wouldnt amount to much of anything. UEFA(Europe's Governing Body) may oppose Blatter, but this guy is a better politician than most politician and the fact that Football is next to religion means he can afford to be as opaque as he can get away with, because how the federations are structured from the grassroots allow for very little oversight.
  - martijn_himself 11y ago
    If a major football country like Germany or Spain left FIFA the FIFA World Cup would lose one of its strongest competitors and it wouldn't be a World Cup- FIFA would fall apart like a house of cards. Blatter would have to step down because of popular pressure on him (my humble opinion). The chance of a national association 'seceding' from FIFA is very, very unlikely though. I agree with your assesment of Blatter's shrewdness.
    - molmalo 11y ago
      Spain is strong as a Club League, not so much as a National Team. Germany is important to the World Cup, but it's not enough... Remember that in every World Cup, some "important" countries are left out in the Qualifiers. To really hit the tournament, you would need the support from several historical and relevant members in each Association. As an example: USA, Mexico in Concacaf; Argentina and Brasil in Conmebol; Italy, Germany, France and England, Spain (mainly for their leagues) in UEFA.
tomjen3 11y ago
What I don't get what does the DOJ have to do with FIFA? As far as I know it is an international group and Qatar is not a US state.
- mason240 11y ago
  They used US banks for the bribery transactions.
- protomyth 11y ago
  I'm in the same boat. I get prosecuting the US citizens who paid bribes (long history there), but I don't get how the US can go after foreign nationals not on US soil for something that was done outside the US and not an attack on the US. I really don't understand why a country would extradite them in the first place. We can get FIFA, but we cannot get Roman Polanski?
  - mullingitover 11y ago
    > ...but I don't get how the US can go after foreign nationals not on US soil for something that was done outside the US and not an attack on the US. Some combination of the Foreign Corrupt Practices Act (where a company can be prosecuted in the US for bribing officials abroad) mixed with RICO. The RICO part might not even be necessary, but it would allow them to go after anyone in the organization if they felt like it. I'm betting Blatter is sweating bullets right now.
    - jtbigwoo 11y ago
      I had to go through FCPA training for my employer a while ago, so take all this with a grain of salt: As I understand it, the FCPA covers U.S. companies and their foreign affiliates and companies/organizations that trade securities in the U.S. If any employee or agent of such an organization bribes a foreign official, the DOJ or the SEC can go after them. "Foreign official" is defined really broadly as well. It includes foreign government employees, but also employees of international agencies and employees of government-managed industries (like doctors working for a state university hospital.) Also, the payment has to be illegal and not just "grease" money to speed up an ordinary task. Again, I'm not a lawyer, but the DOJ might be able to draw a line from various U.S. individuals to various FIFA board members or from US Soccer to FIFA itself depending on how broad the definitions are. If they get that second one, everybody on FIFA's board is screwed.
deleted 11y ago
[deleted]
- jmngomes 11y ago
  "As for the granting of the World Cup, what has so upset the Anglophonic world is that someone else outspent England and US efforts to purchase the World Cup. " I think that "what has so upset the Anglophonic world", plus several other countries and people that are not anglophone, was that that "outspending" was very likely due to corruption.
- austenallred 11y ago
  > As for the granting of the World Cup, what has so upset the Anglophonic world is that someone else outspent England and US efforts to purchase the World Cup. Also, you know, the thousands of people killed in slave labor to build the stadiums, the fact that Qatar is 120+ degrees Fahrenheit during the summer (50 Celsius), making playing a soccer tournament completely unreasonable, and the fact that this "outspending" is done via blatant bribery and corruption. It's certainly just not the Anglophonic world that is fed up with FIFA and glad to see a change.
  - notsony 11y ago
    It was stupid for FIFA members to vote for Qatar. Maybe some were bribed, maybe some believed the presentations about hi-tech stadiums that cool the temperature down. However Qatar are solely responsible for the slave labor and worker deaths. They own that.
    - hvs 11y ago
      And, you know, the organizations and companies that continue to work with them now that they KNOW that it is happening.
  - _nedR 11y ago
    Oh, stop your bleeding hearts. Speaking as an Indian who has lived in the Gulf (and has family who has worked in these construction sites you speak of), I find it immensely ironic that a bunch of former colonial white-majority countries (the biggest benificiaries of slavery) are lecturing Qataris on slavery and human rights. Yes, the labour laws there suck and are in much need of reform, but the levels of criticism this has reached crosses into downright racism. Since we are on the topic of slavery. What about the millions of undocumented workers in the US, who work below minimum wage, have no rights, and no protections afforded by the law- They are effectively slaves working under the threat of deportation. The idea that US government cannot do anything to stem the flow of illegal immigration is ridiculous. We are talking about a country with military/police capabilities larger than the remaining top 5 countries combined. The fact of the matter is the US economy benefits from having a low-cost, migrant population with no rights, just like Qatar, and the government isn't in a hurry to fix it. I would rather a World Cup be hosted somewhere in middle-east,Asia or Africa instead of yet another country in Europe or the Americas . India would make a great host if it could afford it. But we can't, and neither can many Asian/African countries. If the Qataris can and are willing to do it, give them a chance. Edit: It's also amusing to find everyone on this thread and the internet up in arms against Qatar/Russia for all the bribery and corruption, when the indictments so far actually relate to corruption going back 24 years for matches in the US, South America (according to BBC) and the previous World cup in South Africa. I don't remember anyone complaining about corruption back then.
drzaiusapelord 11y ago
> it never made sense to have it in Qatar in the first place Nor in Russia, especially considering they are at war with their neighbors, under sanctions, and how the anti-gay laws will treat gay fans and players. We have unofficial reports of Putin gifting officials with bribes. If this investigation continues, we'll see a lot more than just Qatari corruption here.
- supergirl 11y ago
  I have unofficial reports of Obama riding a banana
  - drzaiusapelord 11y ago
    http://edition.cnn.com/2014/11/30/sport/football/football-platini-picasso-world-cup/ http://edition.cnn.com/2014/11/30/sport/football/football-pl... It claims that Putin was initially skeptical about Russia's bid but had later thrown his full weight behind the process. "He (Putin) took a personal interest in the running of the bid in mid-2010," the committee report reveals. Under the heading, "Intelligence relating to Russia 2018" a series of allegations are revealed about Putin's role in brokering a major bilateral trade deal for gas with Qatar, the winners of the 2022 bid, in exchange for each others votes and the votes of others of their supporters. The allegations also detail the plundering of Russia's national art collection, either from the vaults of the State Hermitage Museum in St.Petersburg or the Kremlin archives, as alleged kickbacks to Platini and D'Hooghe.
    - supergirl 11y ago
      Anyone can claim anything to make the other look bad. Russia claims the allegations are unfounded speculation.
      - drzaiusapelord 11y ago
        Funny how pro-Russian skeptics were "There will never be arrests or actions based on this, it is all CIA propaganda!" and now there are literally arrests and soon trials. Lets see what comes out at the trials before writing further Putin hagiographies. The intel quoted led to these arrests and while the narrative in the press is Qatar, we do know from what leaked, that Russia is involved as well.
_nedR 11y ago
Funny, that everyone seems to miss the fact that the current indictments actually relate to corruption w.r.t. the previous tournaments and world cups hosted in USA, South America and South Africa. Nobody in /r/soccer seems to care about that. Of course, don't let the facts get in the way of all the Qatar/Russia bashing.
- deskamess 11y ago
  There is a tradition of corruption when it comes to world cup hosting. These are the events for which the JD feels it has evidence and for which a claim could be made about the involvement of US financial institutions (hence localizing the corruption on US soil). It does not mean Qatar/Russia campaigns were corruption free. They do not have the evidence for it, or have not yet found a localization (US) vector that could aid in prosecution. My personal opinion is there was corruption (as normal) for both Russia and Qatar, but especially Qatar. The Jeremy Schapp ESPN documentary gives you a peek into things, including the bribing of local African football association officials.
- dragonwriter 11y ago
  > Of course, don't let the facts get in the way of all the Qatar/Russia bashing. I think the fact that the charges indicate a massive pattern of corruption by FIFA and subordinate organization executives in a wide variety of decisions is quite relevant to the FIFA-bashing over the decisions regarding the way that the Qatar and Russia decisions, given the factual conditions surrounding hosting the cup in those countries, seem inexplicable on any basis other than corruption at FIFA. Even if the charges don't include charges specific to corruption around those decisions.

peteretep 11y ago

> There's no way Blatter gets through this unscathed I suspect if you find a good online betting site, you would get someone to take the other side of that bet at attractive odds.

zimpenfish 11y ago
And if people have money to throw away like that, they could just as well throw it to my bank account. As someone pointed out on Twitter, "oh look, the only people left to vote on Friday are Blatter-friendly".
- notsony 11y ago
  FIFA is not a public institution, it's a private association. How a private club wants to structure payments is entirely up to them. So how will any bribery charges stick, unless public officials have been paid off? Can't believe Blatter and his cronies would be so stupid, but perhaps some of the weaker and greedier executives were, so Blatter is happy to serve them up?
  - hvs 11y ago
    I'm guessing the DOJ has something figured out.
    - notsony 11y ago
      Authorities accused Dominique Strauss-Kahn, head of the IMF, of raping a maid in a New York hotel and made him do the perp walk in front of the cameras. What happened in the end? Career ruined but all charges dropped.
      - dragonwriter 11y ago
        > Authorities accused Dominique Strauss-Kahn, head of the IMF, of raping a maid in a New York hotel and made him do the perp walk in front of the cameras. What happened in the end? Well, the "end" is hard to assess. What has happened so far is a series of investigations begun and dropped over various sex-related crimes until the current set for "aggravated pimping" for which he was tried this past February with the verdict to be read in June.
      - peteretep 11y ago
        Would you have rather they hadn't indicted and charged a man accused of rape, where there was (as I understand it) DNA evidence suggesting a sexual encounter had taken place?
  - dragonwriter 11y ago
    > FIFA is not a public institution, it's a private association. How a private club wants to structure payments is entirely up to them. The bribery charges aren't about payments to FIFA, they are about payments (for instance) that constitute fraud against FIFA (and various other subordinate soccer organizations, among others) as an organization. [0] In some cases, these are frauds that were being investigated when the relevant officials resigned from FIFA (ending the FIFA investigations, but not retroactively negating the fraud.) While organizations current executives may have power over the organization, they aren't legally indistinguishable from the organization. > Can't believe Blatter and his cronies would be so stupid Its not uncommon for powerful people with a tendency to corruption to be, or become after years of smaller transgressions not seeming to have consequences, arrogant enough to commit major transgressions that authorities are willing and able to prosecute. [0] https://s3.amazonaws.com/s3.documentcloud.org/documents/2088910/fifa-charging-documents.pdf https://s3.amazonaws.com/s3.documentcloud.org/documents/2088...

petepete 11y ago

It'll be the top post ever in /r/soccer in no time, it's already fourth and was only submitted four hours ago. I truly hope that Blatter is ousted, the Qatar decision is reversed and given to a nation that with a less-appalling human rights record and some actual interest in football. I can't name a single Qatari club or player and know nothing of their league (other than Gabriel Batistuta played there for a year at the end of his career), and I'd consider myself to be someone who knowns a fair bit about football.

iwwr 11y ago
Apparently, hosting a World Cup has become a net negative to a country. The costs (significant and increasing) go to the government and the profits go to FIFA and the sponsors.
- btdollar 11y ago
  Just like with the Olympics. Does FIFA force the government to pass censorious laws as well?
- xasos 11y ago
  Yep, its really sad. It also applies for events like the Olympics, where infrastructure improvements are mandatory, and costs far outweigh any profit they may receive.
  - iaskwhy 11y ago
    Which is why I support all these competitions to follow Euro 2020's idea: 13 cities in 13 countries. This one, the costs per nation are much lower and we stop seeing nations building new huge stadiums which are then completely empty and unused most of the time (like some of those built in Portugal in 2004).
    - jmngomes 11y ago
      "huge stadiums which are then completely empty and unused most of the time (like some of those built in Portugal in 2004)" Not "some of those built in Portugal in 2004" but actually most of them are currently being used way below capacity. And some of them are actually causing financial problems for the local governments, as the stadiums generate little to no revenue and the maintenance costs are huge. But everyone involved in getting them built, apart from the guys laying down the bricks, profited hugely from this absurd and pharaonic decision, and the taxpayers didn't really complain properly (and still don't).

ino 11y ago

> hundreds of migrant workers dying and injured because of the insane conditions they're working under to prepare the stadiums Thousands even, and the sad thing is the number of slavery condition migrant workers have been very high in Qatar and the Emirates since the start of this golden age. Let's hope some things improve for those who suffer the most. And fuck FIFA.

Cyph0n 11y ago

In what sense does Qatar have "no infrastructure"?

austenallred 11y ago
Specifically soccer-related infrastructure, i.e. stadiums. The United States could host four World Cups simultaneously without having to build any more stadiums. Qatar has to build almost everything from scratch.
- hcho 11y ago
  Lack of infrastructure is not the crazy bit. Everyone knows that they have the money to throw at the problem. The fact that all games of WC will be played in one city is the problem. All the fans in contact for a prolonged span...It won't end well.
  - austenallred 11y ago
    > Everyone knows that they have the money to throw at the problem. They may have money to throw at the problem, but Nepalese migrants building the infrastructure to host the 2022 World Cup died at a rate of almost one per day. Look at the full report, it's astounding: * Evidence of forced labour on a huge World Cup infrastructure project. * Some Nepalese men have alleged that they have not been paid for months and have had their salaries retained to stop them running away. * Some workers on other sites say employers routinely confiscate passports and refuse to issue ID cards, in effect reducing them to the status of illegal aliens. * Some labourers say they have been denied access to free drinking water in the desert heat. http://www.theguardian.com/world/2013/sep/25/revealed-qatars-world-cup-slaves http://www.theguardian.com/world/2013/sep/25/revealed-qatars...
    - hcho 11y ago
      Yes, Indian, Pakistani and Bangladeshi nationals had similar experiences. As a matter of fact they have been experiencing this for decades in the region. Have the wrong passport and you are a slave.

aikah 11y ago

/s/hundreds/thousands working under the kalafa , the euphemism for slavery in middle east. Slavery exists everywhere(yes even in Europe and US) but it's generally not something organized at the state level, it is usually illegal.

SEJeff 11y ago
Where does slavery exist in the US? You know we had a war about that an all... It didn't end up super well for the slavers.
- TillE 11y ago
  The term generally used is "human trafficking". http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Human_trafficking_in_the_United_States http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Human_trafficking_in_the_United...
- krisdol 11y ago
  (Private) Prisons. Prisoners have no labor rights in the US and earn cents per hour making textiles, office furniture, military wire, id-tags, vests, etc. Private prison corporations contract out this labor to clients like the DoD, Wal-Mart, Costco, etc. It creates an incentive for the prison industry to lobby for more prisons, tougher anti-crime laws, tougher border crossing penalties, longer sentences. The profits incentivize a total lack of addressing recidivism. 1 out of 4 prisoners in the world occupy a US prison (we account for what? 4-5% of the world's population?). Violent crimes have been trending down over 20 years, but prisoner population as a percentage is at an all time high due to tougher drug convictions. Also, then there's huge factory farms, which are known to use migrants of questionable citizenship as laborers, and report them to the police when they complain.
  - SEJeff 11y ago
    I certainly wouldn't call illegal immigrants slaves. They generally speaking work under stolen identities and pay taxes for non-cash payment just like the rest of us. For those that do work strictly for cash, yes what you said does happen, but they are breaking the law to begin with by being illegal immigrants. The current US administration has made it a lot easier for said illegals to get less scetchy jobs via the DREAM act and the associated legal things. The points you bring up about prisoners is interesting. I've always found the moral idea of a for-profit prison as reprehensible.

martijn_himself 11y ago

Blatter has survived multiple arrests of senior FIFA officials in the past, there is no indication this time will be different. The only way Blatter will step down is if a major football country association or group of associations (e.g. Germany, Spain, Holland) threaten to leave FIFA if he doesn't.

deleted 11y ago
[deleted]
ondiekijunior 11y ago
Even if hey left, with 200 member countries it wouldnt amount to much of anything. UEFA(Europe's Governing Body) may oppose Blatter, but this guy is a better politician than most politician and the fact that Football is next to religion means he can afford to be as opaque as he can get away with, because how the federations are structured from the grassroots allow for very little oversight.
- martijn_himself 11y ago
  If a major football country like Germany or Spain left FIFA the FIFA World Cup would lose one of its strongest competitors and it wouldn't be a World Cup- FIFA would fall apart like a house of cards. Blatter would have to step down because of popular pressure on him (my humble opinion). The chance of a national association 'seceding' from FIFA is very, very unlikely though. I agree with your assesment of Blatter's shrewdness.
  - molmalo 11y ago
    Spain is strong as a Club League, not so much as a National Team. Germany is important to the World Cup, but it's not enough... Remember that in every World Cup, some "important" countries are left out in the Qualifiers. To really hit the tournament, you would need the support from several historical and relevant members in each Association. As an example: USA, Mexico in Concacaf; Argentina and Brasil in Conmebol; Italy, Germany, France and England, Spain (mainly for their leagues) in UEFA.

tomjen3 11y ago

What I don't get what does the DOJ have to do with FIFA? As far as I know it is an international group and Qatar is not a US state.

mason240 11y ago
They used US banks for the bribery transactions.
protomyth 11y ago
I'm in the same boat. I get prosecuting the US citizens who paid bribes (long history there), but I don't get how the US can go after foreign nationals not on US soil for something that was done outside the US and not an attack on the US. I really don't understand why a country would extradite them in the first place. We can get FIFA, but we cannot get Roman Polanski?
- mullingitover 11y ago
  > ...but I don't get how the US can go after foreign nationals not on US soil for something that was done outside the US and not an attack on the US. Some combination of the Foreign Corrupt Practices Act (where a company can be prosecuted in the US for bribing officials abroad) mixed with RICO. The RICO part might not even be necessary, but it would allow them to go after anyone in the organization if they felt like it. I'm betting Blatter is sweating bullets right now.
  - jtbigwoo 11y ago
    I had to go through FCPA training for my employer a while ago, so take all this with a grain of salt: As I understand it, the FCPA covers U.S. companies and their foreign affiliates and companies/organizations that trade securities in the U.S. If any employee or agent of such an organization bribes a foreign official, the DOJ or the SEC can go after them. "Foreign official" is defined really broadly as well. It includes foreign government employees, but also employees of international agencies and employees of government-managed industries (like doctors working for a state university hospital.) Also, the payment has to be illegal and not just "grease" money to speed up an ordinary task. Again, I'm not a lawyer, but the DOJ might be able to draw a line from various U.S. individuals to various FIFA board members or from US Soccer to FIFA itself depending on how broad the definitions are. If they get that second one, everybody on FIFA's board is screwed.

deleted 11y ago

[deleted]

jmngomes 11y ago
"As for the granting of the World Cup, what has so upset the Anglophonic world is that someone else outspent England and US efforts to purchase the World Cup. " I think that "what has so upset the Anglophonic world", plus several other countries and people that are not anglophone, was that that "outspending" was very likely due to corruption.
austenallred 11y ago
> As for the granting of the World Cup, what has so upset the Anglophonic world is that someone else outspent England and US efforts to purchase the World Cup. Also, you know, the thousands of people killed in slave labor to build the stadiums, the fact that Qatar is 120+ degrees Fahrenheit during the summer (50 Celsius), making playing a soccer tournament completely unreasonable, and the fact that this "outspending" is done via blatant bribery and corruption. It's certainly just not the Anglophonic world that is fed up with FIFA and glad to see a change.
- notsony 11y ago
  It was stupid for FIFA members to vote for Qatar. Maybe some were bribed, maybe some believed the presentations about hi-tech stadiums that cool the temperature down. However Qatar are solely responsible for the slave labor and worker deaths. They own that.
  - hvs 11y ago
    And, you know, the organizations and companies that continue to work with them now that they KNOW that it is happening.
- _nedR 11y ago
  Oh, stop your bleeding hearts. Speaking as an Indian who has lived in the Gulf (and has family who has worked in these construction sites you speak of), I find it immensely ironic that a bunch of former colonial white-majority countries (the biggest benificiaries of slavery) are lecturing Qataris on slavery and human rights. Yes, the labour laws there suck and are in much need of reform, but the levels of criticism this has reached crosses into downright racism. Since we are on the topic of slavery. What about the millions of undocumented workers in the US, who work below minimum wage, have no rights, and no protections afforded by the law- They are effectively slaves working under the threat of deportation. The idea that US government cannot do anything to stem the flow of illegal immigration is ridiculous. We are talking about a country with military/police capabilities larger than the remaining top 5 countries combined. The fact of the matter is the US economy benefits from having a low-cost, migrant population with no rights, just like Qatar, and the government isn't in a hurry to fix it. I would rather a World Cup be hosted somewhere in middle-east,Asia or Africa instead of yet another country in Europe or the Americas . India would make a great host if it could afford it. But we can't, and neither can many Asian/African countries. If the Qataris can and are willing to do it, give them a chance. Edit: It's also amusing to find everyone on this thread and the internet up in arms against Qatar/Russia for all the bribery and corruption, when the indictments so far actually relate to corruption going back 24 years for matches in the US, South America (according to BBC) and the previous World cup in South Africa. I don't remember anyone complaining about corruption back then.

drzaiusapelord 11y ago

> it never made sense to have it in Qatar in the first place Nor in Russia, especially considering they are at war with their neighbors, under sanctions, and how the anti-gay laws will treat gay fans and players. We have unofficial reports of Putin gifting officials with bribes. If this investigation continues, we'll see a lot more than just Qatari corruption here.

supergirl 11y ago
I have unofficial reports of Obama riding a banana
- drzaiusapelord 11y ago
  http://edition.cnn.com/2014/11/30/sport/football/football-platini-picasso-world-cup/ http://edition.cnn.com/2014/11/30/sport/football/football-pl... It claims that Putin was initially skeptical about Russia's bid but had later thrown his full weight behind the process. "He (Putin) took a personal interest in the running of the bid in mid-2010," the committee report reveals. Under the heading, "Intelligence relating to Russia 2018" a series of allegations are revealed about Putin's role in brokering a major bilateral trade deal for gas with Qatar, the winners of the 2022 bid, in exchange for each others votes and the votes of others of their supporters. The allegations also detail the plundering of Russia's national art collection, either from the vaults of the State Hermitage Museum in St.Petersburg or the Kremlin archives, as alleged kickbacks to Platini and D'Hooghe.
  - supergirl 11y ago
    Anyone can claim anything to make the other look bad. Russia claims the allegations are unfounded speculation.
    - drzaiusapelord 11y ago
      Funny how pro-Russian skeptics were "There will never be arrests or actions based on this, it is all CIA propaganda!" and now there are literally arrests and soon trials. Lets see what comes out at the trials before writing further Putin hagiographies. The intel quoted led to these arrests and while the narrative in the press is Qatar, we do know from what leaked, that Russia is involved as well.

_nedR 11y ago

Funny, that everyone seems to miss the fact that the current indictments actually relate to corruption w.r.t. the previous tournaments and world cups hosted in USA, South America and South Africa. Nobody in /r/soccer seems to care about that. Of course, don't let the facts get in the way of all the Qatar/Russia bashing.

deskamess 11y ago
There is a tradition of corruption when it comes to world cup hosting. These are the events for which the JD feels it has evidence and for which a claim could be made about the involvement of US financial institutions (hence localizing the corruption on US soil). It does not mean Qatar/Russia campaigns were corruption free. They do not have the evidence for it, or have not yet found a localization (US) vector that could aid in prosecution. My personal opinion is there was corruption (as normal) for both Russia and Qatar, but especially Qatar. The Jeremy Schapp ESPN documentary gives you a peek into things, including the bribing of local African football association officials.
dragonwriter 11y ago
> Of course, don't let the facts get in the way of all the Qatar/Russia bashing. I think the fact that the charges indicate a massive pattern of corruption by FIFA and subordinate organization executives in a wide variety of decisions is quite relevant to the FIFA-bashing over the decisions regarding the way that the Qatar and Russia decisions, given the factual conditions surrounding hosting the cup in those countries, seem inexplicable on any basis other than corruption at FIFA. Even if the charges don't include charges specific to corruption around those decisions.