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Because the app store is turning out to be one of the worst things that has happened to the web. An entire generation of startups have poured their dreams into

Because the app store is turning out to be one of the worst things that has happened to the web. An entire generation of startups have poured their dreams into a disaggregated, narrowly distributed store model. The dreaminess of the iphone is finally wearing off, as we realize we can't solve really interesting problems within its restrictions. 1. Controlled, central distribution 2. No natural interconnectivity 3. No push update model 4. No community or central navigational paradigm other than iOS 5. No ability to distribute a genuinely new UX model 6. No real hardware access

andrew_null 11y ago
Android has a couple of these things.
vardump 11y ago
Slightly off-topic, but regarding shininess of iphone. My biggest issue with iOS it has no usable web browser. Zooming doesn't reflow column text to screen width. IMHO, the single most important feature in a mobile phone web browser. So now web site authors have started to make these horrendous mobile versions with zoom-locked viewports. Opera is still the only way to go for mobile phones. Note, not Opera Mini, but Opera. So far this issue has kept me away from iPhone.
- ihuman 11y ago
  > Zooming doesn't reflow text I'm a bit confused. Why would you want that? Shouldn't zooming just make things bigger?
  - vardump 11y ago
    If I zoom, it doesn't mean I want to be forced to scroll horizontally back and forth. I don't understand why anyone would want to do that. When text reflows while zooming, you can choose exactly the size that is most readable for you. For example, if I read while walking, I usually make text size larger, because it improves reading speed. And you can comfortably use desktop versions of websites.
    - ihuman 11y ago
      So you want zooming to act like Control++ and Control+- does in desktop Chrome/Firefox?
      - vardump 11y ago
        Not exactly, but that's closer. Use Opera for Android to see what I mean. Be sure to enable reflow related options. It's pretty great. The difference is mainly intelligently limiting DIVs (columns) individually to the available viewport horizontal space. Ctrl-plus and Ctrl-minus does not do this, it tries to fit whole width. Shame that other mobile browsers have made it their mission to imitate whatever mobile Safari is doing.
      - swsieber 11y ago
        Yes - that's an excellent way to put it. Make zoom work like it does in a desktop browser. The one thing I can appreciate though is double tap to get rid of cruft by focusing in on text.
  - jimminy 11y ago
    Zooming in without reflow, makes things bigger, but means you now have to swipe to move the viewport over the text. It can be an annoying feature, though there are other things that can be annoying about actually reflowing the text as well, as a lot of the mobile layouts are already cramped, and as such zooming could cause other issues. It's a situation where you're given several really bad options, and you need to pick one you feel is most optimal. Locking the viewport to a specific zoom-level to prevent the side-to-side swiping is an accessibility issue, but makes the layout simpler.
    - vardump 11y ago
      > can be annoying about actually reflowing the text as well, as a lot of the mobile layouts are already cramped, and as such zooming could cause other issues. No, it's fine, as long as it reflows individual columns to full screen width. Reflowing whole width (multiple columns side by side) is not useful (like what desktop browsers do) exactly because it'd get too cramped on a mobile device screen.
- jmzwar 11y ago
  I 100% agree with you - but navigation is way harder on a phone browser than with a mouse. Also mobile having way less memory capabilities slows down browsers a tonne when web developers make content decisions based on what will cache quickly and easily on their 2000 dollar iMac.
api 11y ago
But "mobile is the future!" The idea that mobile is categorically the future of everything has been on my valley echo chamber meme death watch list for years. Everything you say is true. Fundamentally I think it can all be distilled down to: - "Feudal" platforms -- total control by a single vendor, essentially like a game console rather than a "real computer." - Heavily restricted both by app store policies and by technical limitations like battery life, etc. Put these together and whole vast areas are just off limits. - Tiny screen and limited UI -- it's great for quick interactions, but terrible for anything deep or engaging. Mobile is tremendously useful, but it is not going to replace "everything." The largest, most profitable, and most transformative company to come out of the web (so far) was Google. For Mobile I personally think it's going to be Uber, since that particular use case is just such an insanely awesome killer app. It's impossible to say for sure, but with the web there was only one Google. Not sure there's going to be another Uber. (Note that I'm not counting Maps, the other killer app for mobile, because that's typically bundled so it's not a third party opportunity.)
alexashka 11y ago
Serious question: assuming all the restrictions you dislike were to be magically lifted, say, tomorrow: tell me what apps you'd see that you are currently not seeing and how they'd affect your life. For me, everything you mentioned is unfortunate and a massive pain in the ass for developers, but not anything that holds back the floodgates of anything terribly exciting. (Maybe it is just my lack of imagination?)
- tsunamifury 11y ago
  Google now like streaming ui, widgets that are in a useful, web app install, interactive notifications, facial unlock, I could go on and on
hawsome 11y ago
I fail to see how this stopped Uber.

andrew_null 11y ago

Android has a couple of these things.

vardump 11y ago

Slightly off-topic, but regarding shininess of iphone. My biggest issue with iOS it has no usable web browser. Zooming doesn't reflow column text to screen width. IMHO, the single most important feature in a mobile phone web browser. So now web site authors have started to make these horrendous mobile versions with zoom-locked viewports. Opera is still the only way to go for mobile phones. Note, not Opera Mini, but Opera. So far this issue has kept me away from iPhone.

ihuman 11y ago
> Zooming doesn't reflow text I'm a bit confused. Why would you want that? Shouldn't zooming just make things bigger?
- vardump 11y ago
  If I zoom, it doesn't mean I want to be forced to scroll horizontally back and forth. I don't understand why anyone would want to do that. When text reflows while zooming, you can choose exactly the size that is most readable for you. For example, if I read while walking, I usually make text size larger, because it improves reading speed. And you can comfortably use desktop versions of websites.
  - ihuman 11y ago
    So you want zooming to act like Control++ and Control+- does in desktop Chrome/Firefox?
    - vardump 11y ago
      Not exactly, but that's closer. Use Opera for Android to see what I mean. Be sure to enable reflow related options. It's pretty great. The difference is mainly intelligently limiting DIVs (columns) individually to the available viewport horizontal space. Ctrl-plus and Ctrl-minus does not do this, it tries to fit whole width. Shame that other mobile browsers have made it their mission to imitate whatever mobile Safari is doing.
    - swsieber 11y ago
      Yes - that's an excellent way to put it. Make zoom work like it does in a desktop browser. The one thing I can appreciate though is double tap to get rid of cruft by focusing in on text.
- jimminy 11y ago
  Zooming in without reflow, makes things bigger, but means you now have to swipe to move the viewport over the text. It can be an annoying feature, though there are other things that can be annoying about actually reflowing the text as well, as a lot of the mobile layouts are already cramped, and as such zooming could cause other issues. It's a situation where you're given several really bad options, and you need to pick one you feel is most optimal. Locking the viewport to a specific zoom-level to prevent the side-to-side swiping is an accessibility issue, but makes the layout simpler.
  - vardump 11y ago
    > can be annoying about actually reflowing the text as well, as a lot of the mobile layouts are already cramped, and as such zooming could cause other issues. No, it's fine, as long as it reflows individual columns to full screen width. Reflowing whole width (multiple columns side by side) is not useful (like what desktop browsers do) exactly because it'd get too cramped on a mobile device screen.
jmzwar 11y ago
I 100% agree with you - but navigation is way harder on a phone browser than with a mouse. Also mobile having way less memory capabilities slows down browsers a tonne when web developers make content decisions based on what will cache quickly and easily on their 2000 dollar iMac.

api 11y ago

But "mobile is the future!" The idea that mobile is categorically the future of everything has been on my valley echo chamber meme death watch list for years. Everything you say is true. Fundamentally I think it can all be distilled down to: - "Feudal" platforms -- total control by a single vendor, essentially like a game console rather than a "real computer." - Heavily restricted both by app store policies and by technical limitations like battery life, etc. Put these together and whole vast areas are just off limits. - Tiny screen and limited UI -- it's great for quick interactions, but terrible for anything deep or engaging. Mobile is tremendously useful, but it is not going to replace "everything." The largest, most profitable, and most transformative company to come out of the web (so far) was Google. For Mobile I personally think it's going to be Uber, since that particular use case is just such an insanely awesome killer app. It's impossible to say for sure, but with the web there was only one Google. Not sure there's going to be another Uber. (Note that I'm not counting Maps, the other killer app for mobile, because that's typically bundled so it's not a third party opportunity.)

alexashka 11y ago

Serious question: assuming all the restrictions you dislike were to be magically lifted, say, tomorrow: tell me what apps you'd see that you are currently not seeing and how they'd affect your life. For me, everything you mentioned is unfortunate and a massive pain in the ass for developers, but not anything that holds back the floodgates of anything terribly exciting. (Maybe it is just my lack of imagination?)

tsunamifury 11y ago
Google now like streaming ui, widgets that are in a useful, web app install, interactive notifications, facial unlock, I could go on and on

hawsome 11y ago

I fail to see how this stopped Uber.