4 ms·

Not working in an open office was an important factor in picking my current job. I really don't get why employers keep insisting on this terrible setup. It's im

Not working in an open office was an important factor in picking my current job. I really don't get why employers keep insisting on this terrible setup. It's impossible to work for 9-10 hours in such an environment. The EU actually has strict rules about office space but companies seem keen to ignore them. My last employer had an office where it was always to cold or to warm, it stunk and was always noisy. Terrible place to work and I feel that this was reflected in the output of work. All famous management books about managing programmers seem to agree with me on this yet it's still a trend. Terrible.

themartorana 11y ago
It is not impossible. Maybe we can stop talking in absolutes about this issue. We have an open office setup because a) we're small enough that it's not an issue (6 people) and b) we can't afford the alternative. Offices are expensive, compared to the alternative. I agree with the article about placement, but I strongly disagree with this constant sentiment that open offices suck. I agree that as we grow we'll need to be able to put space between people, and maybe the cost will become easier to tackle. But for a small company like ours, I find space division is just as often an annoyance as an issue.
- frostmatthew 11y ago
  > I strongly disagree with this constant sentiment that open offices suck It's not simply sentiment - studies consistently show that they "suck" because they lower productivity, increase stress, cause more sick days, and create higher amounts of worker dissatisfaction. Nevertheless, as for your specific circumstance I fully agree an open office is the most appropriate solution - generally speaking when people discuss open office layouts they're not talking about five or six person startups.
- marcosdumay 11y ago
  At 6 people you probably have a team office[1]. That's a good thing to have. Put 100 other people there, and you'll get an open plan office. [1] Unless you have talkative positions (like sales), and highly intellectual positions sharing that room - if that's the case, you'd better separate them
- derefr 11y ago
  > we're small enough that it's not an issue (6 people) That's not an open office. In the discussion of alternatives to open offices, having each team (3-8 people all doing the same thing) in their own office is frequently brought up. This isn't considered an open plan; it's just a sensible design for collaboration. Let me boil down what people are really talking about when they talk about an open office: picture a space where the people doing creative work, the people talking on phones, and the people taking a coffee break are stuck being physically proximate for eight hours per day. Picture all their desks faced so a manager (also sat in the same room) can see their screens, though they can't see his.
fsk 11y ago
I'd like to find a non-open-office environment, but every single place I interview has them. Is there any way to find non-open-office environments? If there was a list of companies without open offices, I'd apply to every one on the list. I'm definining "not an open office" as either offices for everyone (best) or team rooms of <4 people. Even cubicles would be an improvement. (and you know things are bad when cubicles seem like a luxurious environment)
- sapek 11y ago
  (Most of) Microsoft.
  - fsk 11y ago
    I thought Microsoft was moving away from "every programmer gets his own office"?
    - existencebox 11y ago
      Microsoftie chiming in: Open offices "are the future" here. Some coworkers in other orgs still have single offices, but this is mostly legacy, unfortunately. You could probably get on a team that has single offices, but it'd be a dart throw, and you'd have iffy guarantees as to how long it'll last.
      - fsk 11y ago
        I live in NYC, and moving to Seattle or California is not an option for me right now.
- frostmatthew 11y ago
  Nothing more than anectdata to offer but you may have better luck at larger/older tech companies. At VMware (at least in my location) most devs have a shared office of two per office, which I think is a good compromise between cost and productivity. A friend of mine at Oracle had a private office. Also, FogCreek/StackExchange has private offices http://blog.stackoverflow.com/2015/01/why-we-still-believe-in-private-offices/ http://blog.stackoverflow.com/2015/01/why-we-still-believe-i...

themartorana 11y ago

It is not impossible. Maybe we can stop talking in absolutes about this issue. We have an open office setup because a) we're small enough that it's not an issue (6 people) and b) we can't afford the alternative. Offices are expensive, compared to the alternative. I agree with the article about placement, but I strongly disagree with this constant sentiment that open offices suck. I agree that as we grow we'll need to be able to put space between people, and maybe the cost will become easier to tackle. But for a small company like ours, I find space division is just as often an annoyance as an issue.

frostmatthew 11y ago
> I strongly disagree with this constant sentiment that open offices suck It's not simply sentiment - studies consistently show that they "suck" because they lower productivity, increase stress, cause more sick days, and create higher amounts of worker dissatisfaction. Nevertheless, as for your specific circumstance I fully agree an open office is the most appropriate solution - generally speaking when people discuss open office layouts they're not talking about five or six person startups.
marcosdumay 11y ago
At 6 people you probably have a team office[1]. That's a good thing to have. Put 100 other people there, and you'll get an open plan office. [1] Unless you have talkative positions (like sales), and highly intellectual positions sharing that room - if that's the case, you'd better separate them
derefr 11y ago
> we're small enough that it's not an issue (6 people) That's not an open office. In the discussion of alternatives to open offices, having each team (3-8 people all doing the same thing) in their own office is frequently brought up. This isn't considered an open plan; it's just a sensible design for collaboration. Let me boil down what people are really talking about when they talk about an open office: picture a space where the people doing creative work, the people talking on phones, and the people taking a coffee break are stuck being physically proximate for eight hours per day. Picture all their desks faced so a manager (also sat in the same room) can see their screens, though they can't see his.

fsk 11y ago

I'd like to find a non-open-office environment, but every single place I interview has them. Is there any way to find non-open-office environments? If there was a list of companies without open offices, I'd apply to every one on the list. I'm definining "not an open office" as either offices for everyone (best) or team rooms of <4 people. Even cubicles would be an improvement. (and you know things are bad when cubicles seem like a luxurious environment)

sapek 11y ago
(Most of) Microsoft.
- fsk 11y ago
  I thought Microsoft was moving away from "every programmer gets his own office"?
  - existencebox 11y ago
    Microsoftie chiming in: Open offices "are the future" here. Some coworkers in other orgs still have single offices, but this is mostly legacy, unfortunately. You could probably get on a team that has single offices, but it'd be a dart throw, and you'd have iffy guarantees as to how long it'll last.
    - fsk 11y ago
      I live in NYC, and moving to Seattle or California is not an option for me right now.
frostmatthew 11y ago
Nothing more than anectdata to offer but you may have better luck at larger/older tech companies. At VMware (at least in my location) most devs have a shared office of two per office, which I think is a good compromise between cost and productivity. A friend of mine at Oracle had a private office. Also, FogCreek/StackExchange has private offices http://blog.stackoverflow.com/2015/01/why-we-still-believe-in-private-offices/ http://blog.stackoverflow.com/2015/01/why-we-still-believe-i...