8 ms·

Show HN: My reply to LinkedIn recruiters

117 points by dennisvdvliet 11y ago

JSeymourATL 11y ago
Brilliant, well done! Sure to screen out the Bozos from people who may really want to talk with you. The good recruiters will get it. Might suggest a sub-section under Job Description-- who does this role report to? (Give me their name).
- dennisvdvliet 11y ago
  Don't think any recruiter is going to give me that info :-) Usually they claim that everything is so secret etc.
  - yareally 11y ago
    Only the awful ones that are probably worried because the job is also posted online somewhere and aren't really dealing directly with the employer.
    - dennisvdvliet 11y ago
      Agreed, usually it takes 20 milliseconds on google to figure out what they work for is.
  - HelloNurse 11y ago
    And that's when you stop answering their teases.
    - dennisvdvliet 11y ago
      Indeed
  - JSeymourATL 11y ago
    If they are retained, it's usually a selling point. But an appropriate response would be-- 'reports to the VP Engineering, will share full details once we've had a live conversation and decide to move forward'
niuzeta 11y ago
This is absolutely brilliant. The thing is, how do you actually reply the recruiters with the link? Surely it would be rather rude to simply reply a solicitation with a 'please check this link'.
- dennisvdvliet 11y ago
  That is exactly what I do.
  - niuzeta 11y ago
    Huh, interesting. what's the feedback from the recruiters? How do they respond? This idea is absolutely fantastic that I might just as well do it myself as well.
    - dennisvdvliet 11y ago
      Most just copy&paste the opening. Some of them get it and make a real effort to fill out the form in a cool way.
- centizen 11y ago
  I'd imagine it's done in the same automated manner the recruiters usually use when contacting a possible lead. It does not seem rude to me to reply to someone with a brief salutation and a request to complete some forms when that is what they are requesting you do as well.
  - niuzeta 11y ago
    It's an IT-equivalent of cold-calling. Normally I just do not bother responding.
theflork 11y ago
What did you use to build it and how does it notify you of the submission? and , curious how many recruiters go through this?
- dennisvdvliet 11y ago
  At the moment it is mostly HN visitors entering bogus info. 60% of them replies but most of them with the same info as in the email. I bin those. Some of them get it an like it, I tend to like them a little more.
sjs382 11y ago
How many have you sent this to? What's the conversion rate? ;)
- dennisvdvliet 11y ago
  I used it for a while already. Hard to see the conversion rate since HN people or now spamming it with bogus content. My gutfeeling tells me that is was around 50-60%
krmmalik 11y ago
This is hilarious. Well done. I hate how everything in recruitment becomes all about filling in forms. Its ludicrous. Bravo
dorfsmay 11y ago
Are recruiters that big of an issue for you guys? I do not get that many emails/contacts from recruiters, and I find a quick polite email exchange or one phone call allows to quickly clarify the situation and we're done. I actually welcome recruiters contacting me, it keeps me in the loop of what's going, market rate etc... and sometime help me finding new gigs. EDIT: It seems that where you are located makes a big difference. I get a few emails a week, almost zero spam. People in the bay area reports dozen of emails a day from robots based on keywords, that would indeed be frustrating.
- rrrx3 11y ago
  Suppose it depends on the market/job role. I'm a Designer with some developer skills and I get spammed constantly for having things like "Javascript" et al on my profile. My true developer friends seem to get it even worse. Around here, Java is the big need, so if you've got it on your profile, expect constant recruiter spam.
  - duiker101 11y ago
    Really? Java is so wanted? Where are you?
    - DanBC 11y ago
      Java is one of the most commonly used programming languages. There are problems with each of these surveys, but they all show java either in the lead or near the lead. http://redmonk.com/sogrady/2015/01/14/language-rankings-1-15/ http://redmonk.com/sogrady/2015/01/14/language-rankings-1-15... http://www.tiobe.com/index.php/content/paperinfo/tpci/index.html http://www.tiobe.com/index.php/content/paperinfo/tpci/index.... http://langpop.com/ http://langpop.com/
    - marktangotango 11y ago
      Where are you, such that Java's NOT in demand is the question.
    - iamthepieman 11y ago
rilita 11y ago
Regarding your choice of fields: 1. Name - This is already in emails I get from recruiters 2. Email - Useful since LinkedIn emails typically don't include their actual email 3. Phone Number - Ditto to #1; they typically include it 4. How did you find me - Considering you stated this is in reply to LinkedIn recruiters; LinkedIn?? ... 5. Name of the company - Most recruiters will not share this information until you have gone through the process more. What is to stop you from ignoring them and contacting companies directly once they give this? This is a poor choice and will drive away recruiters. I do see this is not a required field, but that is not obvious at first glance. 6. Location - You should consider converting this into a zipcode lookup or something. If not generic information such as state or city may be entered here. ( or possibly nothing/bogus info ) 7. Job title - Often recruiters have multiple positions available depending on your experience and fit. Also job title doesn't necessarily mean anything. Half of the jobs I have had had no job title. 8. Job description - This is usually provided in the email I get from recruiters. That said, sometimes they don't so I can see the use. You might consider adding "Required skills" as a question also. 9. Yearly salary before taxes - This is a required field. If I were a recruiter I would ignore you at this point. You should be more interested in the opportunity not the exact pay. This looks like a money grab. Having a good career is more important than a dollar figure. Better than this would be a set of ranges; then you can ignore all requests in the ranges you would not accept. Gets you similar info but avoids the insult.
- kenrikm 11y ago
  9. I disagree you're wasting everyone's time if the numbers are way too far apart. I.E they would like to pay 80k+ Options when you're currently @ 130k + Vested Options.
  - rrrx3 11y ago
    Agree with this. Most recruiters just spam. If you reply and theres a 50k spread on what you need vs what they're offering, time has been wasted on both parts.
- mathgeek 11y ago
  > You should be more interested in the opportunity not the exact pay. This looks like a money grab. Having a good career is more important than a dollar figure. If you're already in a position that you enjoy, the dollar figure is certainly one of, if not the most important items on a cold call job offer. Asking them to open the discussion with a rough number is more than fair, in my book.
calcsam 11y ago
Mine: "The next time a recruiter pings you, ask them how much you're worth." https://medium.com/@calcsam/the-next-time-a-recruiter-pings-you-ask-them-how-much-youre-worth-1897ec95eb41 https://medium.com/@calcsam/the-next-time-a-recruiter-pings-...
- xofer 11y ago
  There's a problem with asking how much they're willing to pay up front: It's a negotiation and in order to get an actual number, you have to sell yourself first. If you seriously want to know what they're willing to pay, you'll have to go through the whole hiring process.
  - dragonwriter 11y ago
    > There's a problem with asking how much they're willing to pay up front: It's a negotiation and in order to get an actual number, you have to sell yourself first. Only because enough people accept that to shift the power away from would-be employees. If there is really a shortage of good tech workers, as employers keep claiming, then they have the power -- all they have to do is choose to exercise it. Make the would be employers (and the recruiters acting as their agents) establish that its worth your time to even bother considering the work they want done by putting numbers on the table first.
    - marktangotango 11y ago
      Lately, if I can get a job description from the recruiter, I'll reply with 'I would require ${current salary * 1.1} to consider moving at this time'. Usually I get responses such 'they would go that salary for the right candidate'. Note you have to specify straight salary, not total compensation, otherwise they try to tack on all the benefits everyone offers now as 'total compensation package' BS.
      - xofer 11y ago
        Right -- for the right candidate. I don't buy things without vetting them first; why would I expect someone else to? The suggestion that there is some exact figure out there that you are worth is false binary thinking. There are lots of factors that make you a better or worse candidate for any particular job. The better you are at the art of feeling out the situation and presenting yourself in the best light, the better you'll do, and the more you'll realize that starting with, "What are you offering?" isn't a good tactic.
_lce0 11y ago
man, I want to fork for my personal use!
- dennisvdvliet 11y ago
  Feel free, to create one yourself on typeform.com
ekanes 11y ago
Many commenters are talking about how they handle/manage this, generally by replying to the recruiter in some fashion. Consider that you have no societal/politeness obligation to reply to any sales (and recruiting is sales) email, ever. You can just ignore/filter with abandon. These folks are eating up your most precious resource - your time.
Methusalah 11y ago
I had one track down the phone number for my employer, call here, and ask the secretary to speak with me while refusing to say what the reason was until he spoke with me.
- copsarebastards 11y ago
  I had the same experience. Luckily for me the secretary at my work politely declined to pass on the call.
  - endymi0n 11y ago
    Same thing here - on top he was talking in English (I'm German) and didn't even ask if I was in a good position to talk. Talk about awkwardness to my colleagues.
    - copsarebastards 11y ago
      At another job I worked at, our team had some of the most well-known devs in the metropolitan area, and our office line received 5-10 calls a day from recruiters asking for one of the devs. We had a team rule: you answer with "Hello" only and don't give any information to the caller until they give you their name, company, and reason for calling. It didn't stop some people from calling us daily.
- mandlar 11y ago
  I've had this happen multiple times. I find it very disrespectful to call me unsolicited at my job about another job.
- joezydeco 11y ago
  BTDT too, and our office admin works directly for my boss. And she has Caller ID. It pisses me off to no end.
- ufmace 11y ago
  Hasn't happened to me, but it's happened several times to a guy I work with. They always claim that they need help with some software issue, I guess to make it sound more plausible, though I have no idea why anyone outside the company would call us for software help.
sdalfakj 11y ago
What is it in the linked page that makes the page fail to show any text when javascript is blocked? and why is this being done? srs.
- wodenokoto 11y ago
  With javascript it is one of the smoothest experiences I've seen filling out a form. Very, very nice. But probably not worth it, if it doesn't degrade nicely.
ForHackernews 11y ago
"What's wrong with this country? Can't a man walk down the street without being offered a job!?" https://imgur.com/r/TheSimpsons/1Oz75R0 https://imgur.com/r/TheSimpsons/1Oz75R0
thebouv 11y ago
I talk right back to them. I'm not looking for a new job, but I do have former employees and friends and if I think they're qualified, I try to get the recruiter and my colleague together.
fecak 11y ago
Recruiter here, and I'd welcome this type of response. I'd much prefer to reach out to someone via email address than LinkedIn, but when I can't find an address (it happens) it means a LinkedIn invite that has severe character limits. All you can usually fit is a quick intro and "are you interested in discussing a job doing..." type stuff. This response gives the recruiter an opportunity to present a fairly decent pitch, while giving the recipient the ability to screen a more complete pitch instead of a truncated note.
flurpitude 11y ago
I'm not keen on Typeform's scrolling form presentation. When I'm filling in a form I like to have a mental map of where I am, whereas this feels like stumbling through fog.
copsarebastards 11y ago
Recent exchange I had with a recruiter over email: Recruiter: I found your email on LinkedIn and I have a few Java positions you might be interested in. Would you be interested in <blah blah blah> Me: I don't have a LinkedIn account. How did you actually find my info? Recruiter: It was in a database we share with a few other recruitment agencies. Me: Could you remove me from the database? Recruiter: Okay, you have been removed from the database. Me: Since we both know you didn't delete it, you at least update it to say I'm interested in Python jobs? I haven't worked in Java in 5 years and have no interest in going back. Recruiter: Okay, I've added Python to your languages. Me: But you didn't remove me from the database and you didn't remove Java from my languages? Recruiter: I'm not authorized to remove data from the database. Me: So you lied about where you got my info and you lied about deleting my data from your database? I like to think that after this he had a revelation and switched careers, but more likely he moved on to prey on another sucker. EDIT: This was from a new recruitment address. Most recruitment emails I receive get filtered and receive an automated response telling them politely that I'm not interested in their services.
- AtmaScout 11y ago
  They likely moved on, but then again dealerships are always looking for sales people. He has the lying requirement down.
meritt 11y ago
I usually just tell recruiter[N] that I'm not interested but I know a great developer, recruiter[N-1], who is a perfect candidate.
omouse 11y ago
This is pretty awesome, I don't know what it is but I've been getting more aggressive recruiters actually calling me. One even called the office of my recent new job! Huge wtf; I'm a dev I like automation, don't call.
bsg75 11y ago
This should be a service.
- alxndr 11y ago
  That's what Hired is trying to be, isn't it?

117 points by dennisvdvliet 11y ago

Brilliant, well done! Sure to screen out the Bozos from people who may really want to talk with you. The good recruiters will get it. Might suggest a sub-section under Job Description-- who does this role report to? (Give me their name).

dennisvdvliet 11y ago
Don't think any recruiter is going to give me that info :-) Usually they claim that everything is so secret etc.
- yareally 11y ago
  Only the awful ones that are probably worried because the job is also posted online somewhere and aren't really dealing directly with the employer.
  - dennisvdvliet 11y ago
    Agreed, usually it takes 20 milliseconds on google to figure out what they work for is.
- HelloNurse 11y ago
  And that's when you stop answering their teases.
  - dennisvdvliet 11y ago
    Indeed
- JSeymourATL 11y ago
  If they are retained, it's usually a selling point. But an appropriate response would be-- 'reports to the VP Engineering, will share full details once we've had a live conversation and decide to move forward'

niuzeta 11y ago

This is absolutely brilliant. The thing is, how do you actually reply the recruiters with the link? Surely it would be rather rude to simply reply a solicitation with a 'please check this link'.

dennisvdvliet 11y ago
That is exactly what I do.
- niuzeta 11y ago
  Huh, interesting. what's the feedback from the recruiters? How do they respond? This idea is absolutely fantastic that I might just as well do it myself as well.
  - dennisvdvliet 11y ago
    Most just copy&paste the opening. Some of them get it and make a real effort to fill out the form in a cool way.
centizen 11y ago
I'd imagine it's done in the same automated manner the recruiters usually use when contacting a possible lead. It does not seem rude to me to reply to someone with a brief salutation and a request to complete some forms when that is what they are requesting you do as well.
- niuzeta 11y ago
  It's an IT-equivalent of cold-calling. Normally I just do not bother responding.

theflork 11y ago

What did you use to build it and how does it notify you of the submission? and , curious how many recruiters go through this?

dennisvdvliet 11y ago
At the moment it is mostly HN visitors entering bogus info. 60% of them replies but most of them with the same info as in the email. I bin those. Some of them get it an like it, I tend to like them a little more.

sjs382 11y ago

How many have you sent this to? What's the conversion rate? ;)

dennisvdvliet 11y ago
I used it for a while already. Hard to see the conversion rate since HN people or now spamming it with bogus content. My gutfeeling tells me that is was around 50-60%

krmmalik 11y ago

This is hilarious. Well done. I hate how everything in recruitment becomes all about filling in forms. Its ludicrous. Bravo

dorfsmay 11y ago

Are recruiters that big of an issue for you guys? I do not get that many emails/contacts from recruiters, and I find a quick polite email exchange or one phone call allows to quickly clarify the situation and we're done. I actually welcome recruiters contacting me, it keeps me in the loop of what's going, market rate etc... and sometime help me finding new gigs. EDIT: It seems that where you are located makes a big difference. I get a few emails a week, almost zero spam. People in the bay area reports dozen of emails a day from robots based on keywords, that would indeed be frustrating.

rrrx3 11y ago
Suppose it depends on the market/job role. I'm a Designer with some developer skills and I get spammed constantly for having things like "Javascript" et al on my profile. My true developer friends seem to get it even worse. Around here, Java is the big need, so if you've got it on your profile, expect constant recruiter spam.
- duiker101 11y ago
  Really? Java is so wanted? Where are you?
  - DanBC 11y ago
    Java is one of the most commonly used programming languages. There are problems with each of these surveys, but they all show java either in the lead or near the lead. http://redmonk.com/sogrady/2015/01/14/language-rankings-1-15/ http://redmonk.com/sogrady/2015/01/14/language-rankings-1-15... http://www.tiobe.com/index.php/content/paperinfo/tpci/index.html http://www.tiobe.com/index.php/content/paperinfo/tpci/index.... http://langpop.com/ http://langpop.com/
  - marktangotango 11y ago
    Where are you, such that Java's NOT in demand is the question.
  - iamthepieman 11y ago

rilita 11y ago

Regarding your choice of fields: 1. Name - This is already in emails I get from recruiters 2. Email - Useful since LinkedIn emails typically don't include their actual email 3. Phone Number - Ditto to #1; they typically include it 4. How did you find me - Considering you stated this is in reply to LinkedIn recruiters; LinkedIn?? ... 5. Name of the company - Most recruiters will not share this information until you have gone through the process more. What is to stop you from ignoring them and contacting companies directly once they give this? This is a poor choice and will drive away recruiters. I do see this is not a required field, but that is not obvious at first glance. 6. Location - You should consider converting this into a zipcode lookup or something. If not generic information such as state or city may be entered here. ( or possibly nothing/bogus info ) 7. Job title - Often recruiters have multiple positions available depending on your experience and fit. Also job title doesn't necessarily mean anything. Half of the jobs I have had had no job title. 8. Job description - This is usually provided in the email I get from recruiters. That said, sometimes they don't so I can see the use. You might consider adding "Required skills" as a question also. 9. Yearly salary before taxes - This is a required field. If I were a recruiter I would ignore you at this point. You should be more interested in the opportunity not the exact pay. This looks like a money grab. Having a good career is more important than a dollar figure. Better than this would be a set of ranges; then you can ignore all requests in the ranges you would not accept. Gets you similar info but avoids the insult.

kenrikm 11y ago
9. I disagree you're wasting everyone's time if the numbers are way too far apart. I.E they would like to pay 80k+ Options when you're currently @ 130k + Vested Options.
- rrrx3 11y ago
  Agree with this. Most recruiters just spam. If you reply and theres a 50k spread on what you need vs what they're offering, time has been wasted on both parts.
mathgeek 11y ago
> You should be more interested in the opportunity not the exact pay. This looks like a money grab. Having a good career is more important than a dollar figure. If you're already in a position that you enjoy, the dollar figure is certainly one of, if not the most important items on a cold call job offer. Asking them to open the discussion with a rough number is more than fair, in my book.

calcsam 11y ago

Mine: "The next time a recruiter pings you, ask them how much you're worth." https://medium.com/@calcsam/the-next-time-a-recruiter-pings-you-ask-them-how-much-youre-worth-1897ec95eb41 https://medium.com/@calcsam/the-next-time-a-recruiter-pings-...

xofer 11y ago
There's a problem with asking how much they're willing to pay up front: It's a negotiation and in order to get an actual number, you have to sell yourself first. If you seriously want to know what they're willing to pay, you'll have to go through the whole hiring process.
- dragonwriter 11y ago
  > There's a problem with asking how much they're willing to pay up front: It's a negotiation and in order to get an actual number, you have to sell yourself first. Only because enough people accept that to shift the power away from would-be employees. If there is really a shortage of good tech workers, as employers keep claiming, then they have the power -- all they have to do is choose to exercise it. Make the would be employers (and the recruiters acting as their agents) establish that its worth your time to even bother considering the work they want done by putting numbers on the table first.
  - marktangotango 11y ago
    Lately, if I can get a job description from the recruiter, I'll reply with 'I would require ${current salary * 1.1} to consider moving at this time'. Usually I get responses such 'they would go that salary for the right candidate'. Note you have to specify straight salary, not total compensation, otherwise they try to tack on all the benefits everyone offers now as 'total compensation package' BS.
    - xofer 11y ago
      Right -- for the right candidate. I don't buy things without vetting them first; why would I expect someone else to? The suggestion that there is some exact figure out there that you are worth is false binary thinking. There are lots of factors that make you a better or worse candidate for any particular job. The better you are at the art of feeling out the situation and presenting yourself in the best light, the better you'll do, and the more you'll realize that starting with, "What are you offering?" isn't a good tactic.

_lce0 11y ago

man, I want to fork for my personal use!

dennisvdvliet 11y ago
Feel free, to create one yourself on typeform.com

ekanes 11y ago

Many commenters are talking about how they handle/manage this, generally by replying to the recruiter in some fashion. Consider that you have no societal/politeness obligation to reply to any sales (and recruiting is sales) email, ever. You can just ignore/filter with abandon. These folks are eating up your most precious resource - your time.

Methusalah 11y ago

I had one track down the phone number for my employer, call here, and ask the secretary to speak with me while refusing to say what the reason was until he spoke with me.

copsarebastards 11y ago
I had the same experience. Luckily for me the secretary at my work politely declined to pass on the call.
- endymi0n 11y ago
  Same thing here - on top he was talking in English (I'm German) and didn't even ask if I was in a good position to talk. Talk about awkwardness to my colleagues.
  - copsarebastards 11y ago
    At another job I worked at, our team had some of the most well-known devs in the metropolitan area, and our office line received 5-10 calls a day from recruiters asking for one of the devs. We had a team rule: you answer with "Hello" only and don't give any information to the caller until they give you their name, company, and reason for calling. It didn't stop some people from calling us daily.
mandlar 11y ago
I've had this happen multiple times. I find it very disrespectful to call me unsolicited at my job about another job.
joezydeco 11y ago
BTDT too, and our office admin works directly for my boss. And she has Caller ID. It pisses me off to no end.
ufmace 11y ago
Hasn't happened to me, but it's happened several times to a guy I work with. They always claim that they need help with some software issue, I guess to make it sound more plausible, though I have no idea why anyone outside the company would call us for software help.

sdalfakj 11y ago

What is it in the linked page that makes the page fail to show any text when javascript is blocked? and why is this being done? srs.

wodenokoto 11y ago
With javascript it is one of the smoothest experiences I've seen filling out a form. Very, very nice. But probably not worth it, if it doesn't degrade nicely.

ForHackernews 11y ago

"What's wrong with this country? Can't a man walk down the street without being offered a job!?" https://imgur.com/r/TheSimpsons/1Oz75R0 https://imgur.com/r/TheSimpsons/1Oz75R0

thebouv 11y ago

I talk right back to them. I'm not looking for a new job, but I do have former employees and friends and if I think they're qualified, I try to get the recruiter and my colleague together.

fecak 11y ago

Recruiter here, and I'd welcome this type of response. I'd much prefer to reach out to someone via email address than LinkedIn, but when I can't find an address (it happens) it means a LinkedIn invite that has severe character limits. All you can usually fit is a quick intro and "are you interested in discussing a job doing..." type stuff. This response gives the recruiter an opportunity to present a fairly decent pitch, while giving the recipient the ability to screen a more complete pitch instead of a truncated note.

flurpitude 11y ago

I'm not keen on Typeform's scrolling form presentation. When I'm filling in a form I like to have a mental map of where I am, whereas this feels like stumbling through fog.

copsarebastards 11y ago

Recent exchange I had with a recruiter over email: Recruiter: I found your email on LinkedIn and I have a few Java positions you might be interested in. Would you be interested in <blah blah blah> Me: I don't have a LinkedIn account. How did you actually find my info? Recruiter: It was in a database we share with a few other recruitment agencies. Me: Could you remove me from the database? Recruiter: Okay, you have been removed from the database. Me: Since we both know you didn't delete it, you at least update it to say I'm interested in Python jobs? I haven't worked in Java in 5 years and have no interest in going back. Recruiter: Okay, I've added Python to your languages. Me: But you didn't remove me from the database and you didn't remove Java from my languages? Recruiter: I'm not authorized to remove data from the database. Me: So you lied about where you got my info and you lied about deleting my data from your database? I like to think that after this he had a revelation and switched careers, but more likely he moved on to prey on another sucker. EDIT: This was from a new recruitment address. Most recruitment emails I receive get filtered and receive an automated response telling them politely that I'm not interested in their services.

AtmaScout 11y ago
They likely moved on, but then again dealerships are always looking for sales people. He has the lying requirement down.

meritt 11y ago

I usually just tell recruiter[N] that I'm not interested but I know a great developer, recruiter[N-1], who is a perfect candidate.

omouse 11y ago

This is pretty awesome, I don't know what it is but I've been getting more aggressive recruiters actually calling me. One even called the office of my recent new job! Huge wtf; I'm a dev I like automation, don't call.

bsg75 11y ago

This should be a service.

alxndr 11y ago
That's what Hired is trying to be, isn't it?