7 ms·

Delivering Fast JavaScript Performance in Microsoft Edge

63 points by rayshan 11y ago

tnuc 11y ago
And you need to install windows 10 to get the new browser. Is Microsoft coupling their browser again?
- Someone1234 11y ago
  They're giving away Windows 10 for free. So they're copying Apple's strategy and instead of back-porting, just get everyone onto the latest version.
  - higherpurpose 11y ago
    We still don't know how that is going to work yet. Will they cut off updates at some point. Do users have to pay for Windows 10.1? Will all future versions of Windows forever be free for those who bought Windows 7/8? etc
    - GlickWick 11y ago
      It's hard to say, but Apple has definitely learned that people don't like paying for minor-ish OS upgrades. I hope Microsoft has learned from that.
      - danieltillett 11y ago
        I would definitely pay Apple for an upgrade of snow leopard.
        copperx 11y ago
        Unfortunately, Apple doesn't give you the option of voting with your money anymore.
        danieltillett 11y ago
        I know :( Serious I think I am not alone in wanting to be able to run snow leopard on recent hardware. Apple please make software as good as your hardware.
    - ikeboy 11y ago
      Free for one year.
      - hirsin 11y ago
        Incorrect. Free upgrades for one year, with free updates after that for device lifetime. [1] 1. http://windows.microsoft.com/en-us/windows-10/about http://windows.microsoft.com/en-us/windows-10/about (Under Free upgrade offer)
        ikeboy 11y ago
        That's what I mean; if you don't upgrade within the year, you don't get it for free. I was answering the last question.
  - TheSisb2 11y ago
    Getting people to the latest version is the problem. People are still reportedly using IE7! Upgrading isn't about purchase cost, it's about labor cost and general know-how. I honestly thought IE11 would be the last major IE release, guess I was wrong. This new one looks no better.
    - tosh 11y ago
      It's easier to 'sell' people free updates without a lot of perceived upsides for the end-user than to 'sell' them that they also have to pay for the update :)
      - TheSisb2 11y ago
        Unless I'm going crazy, I don't think your comment makes grammatical sense. Both of those options are made to sound bad (without upsides, also have to pay?) In any case, I'm not doubting that it's easier to pitch an update if it's free. All I'm saying is that purchase cost isn't the main or only barrier to Microsoft software updates.
        tosh 11y ago
        Sorry about the weird phrasing. What I wanted to convey is that sometimes from the user's point of view it is not easy to see/perceive any upside from upgrading (even though technically there might be lots). => hence a free upgrade is way easier to say yes to.
  - aczerepinski 11y ago
    What is Microsoft's business model then? Bing ads? Kinect + ??? = Profit? (I know I'm phrasing this like a joke, but I'm genuinely curious what revenue driver(s) justify a near $400B valuation)
    - grrowl 11y ago
      They're giving away free upgrades to Windows 10, for the first year. That's all. * http://windows.microsoft.com/en-au/windows-10/about http://windows.microsoft.com/en-au/windows-10/about
    - dragonwriter 11y ago
      > What is Microsoft's business model then? New Windows licenses, licensing on lots of other software, MSDN, enterprise support, and all the things that aren't upgrades of existing Windows licenses.
- Aleman360 11y ago
  No, it's just that Edge is a universal app and uses API's only available in Windows 10.
  - balls187 11y ago
    So, that's a Yes, Microsoft is coupling their browser.
    - outside1234 11y ago
      You mean like Safari in MacOSX, Mobile Safari in iOS, Chrome in Android or Firefox in Ubuntu? Yes. A browser is sort of a non-optional thing in an OS these days seeing how this world wide web thing is popular.
      - balls187 11y ago
        While every OS ships with a browser, I think the OP was asking "do you have to install windows 10" in order to get the new MSFT Browser. IIRC, those examples you listed, you don't need to install the latest OS X to get the latest version of Safari (though you need to have a recently supported OS).
        eropple 11y ago
        You've always needed a reasonably recent version of OS X to use up-to-date versions of Safari. The window for "reasonably recent", right now, is Windows 10. There is no basis in fact to claim that Edge+1 will not support Windows 10, too.
        balls187 11y ago
        No need to be defensive. I'm simply stating the following sentence is true: Windows 10 and Edge are coupled.
        SomeStupidPoint 11y ago
- TheSisb2 11y ago
  It seems like they are. To those people down voting this comment because it comes off as a snark, it has some merit. Web developers need a new machine just to test the new IE. We already have to use multiple VMs or some other solution to test IE6-11 since you can't have more than one IE installed at a time. This just makes web development that much more difficult since now if a bug is reported in the new IE the engineer who is assigned that ticket needs access to that environment. I really hope the Microsoft team gets the hint and has one IE that is universal, across all OSs, with continued updates (Like Firefox or Chrome). It's very rare that you actually need to dive into Firefox versions or Chrome versions, but every IE issue needs the version listed specifically.
  - grrowl 11y ago
    With modern.ie, you get free testing VMs and screenshots of any website rendered in IE across many devices. To test Safari on Windows, Apple provides you with many less options (certainly no free browser testing OSX VMs!). They're going above and beyond to make up for past mistakes, for that I'm grateful.
    - lewisl9029 11y ago
      OSX VMs... Now there's an idea. I'd be more than willing to pay a large premium for an officially supported version of OSX that runs in VMware/Virtualbox/Hyper-V/etc. But I suppose it probably isn't in Apple's best interests to offer one.
      - mitchty 11y ago
        It exists now, you just need to run it on an OS X machine running OS X + Fusion to be legal. I have vagrant vm's for OS X back to 10.7. You might be able to run esx on a mac then use vm's that way but I have no idea. In either case what you want has existed for some time.
        lewisl9029 11y ago
        I should have been more specific. I was hoping for an OS X VM that runs on host OSes other than OS X.
mkozlows 11y ago
The performance boost from IE11 is nice, but the comparisons to other browsers should be taken with a major grain of salt. Because the thing is, every IE release has "beat the competition" in benchmarks leading up to its release (links below). But the thing is, other browsers don't stand still and IE releases are so infrequent, that even if IE really is super-fast at release, within six months it's an also-ran. Maybe Edge will break this pattern? It'd be nice. IE11, from November 2013: http://ie.microsoft.com/testdrive/Benchmarks/sunspider/Default.html http://ie.microsoft.com/testdrive/Benchmarks/sunspider/Defau... IE10, from 2012: http://www.extremetech.com/internet/140337-ie10-on-windows-7-benchmarked-how-does-it-fare-against-google-chrome http://www.extremetech.com/internet/140337-ie10-on-windows-7... IE9, from 2010: http://blogs.msdn.com/b/ie/archive/2010/03/18/the-new-javascript-engine-in-internet-explorer-9.aspx http://blogs.msdn.com/b/ie/archive/2010/03/18/the-new-javasc...
- sgv 11y ago
  While I completely agree that regular releases and an evergreen browser are extremely important in today's world (and that is the direction that Microsoft Edge is moving towards), I am not sure what point you were trying to make by saying that comparison against competition should be with a grain of salt. All three blogs that you point to talk about SunSpider benchmark (from Apple), and since IE9, or the day the first blog was published, the story holds true. Across platforms (32-bit or 64-bit), Microsoft Edge and IE remain as leaders in that benchmark across all competing browsers. The nearest competitor is around 40% slower. Here are the nos. across major browsers on SunSpider MSEdge: 103 FF Nightly : 176 Chrome Canary: 171
trose 11y ago
Exciting stuff. It feels really weird for someone to write a blog in which they discover that 95% of websites use minified JS though. I guess it's nice to see Microsoft making some progress but you have to wonder what's going on over there if they seem to clueless to the state of the modern web.
- sgv 11y ago
  My understanding is that the same JavaScript code minified by different minifiers will produce different performance results across any browser. This is because minifiers often introduce code patterns that are very different than the JavaScript code that the devs write. The point being made is not about being non-aware of the web, but more about ensuring the web runs faster across different code patterns that are encountered by the JIT compiler while running the web.

63 points by rayshan 11y ago

tnuc 11y ago

And you need to install windows 10 to get the new browser. Is Microsoft coupling their browser again?

Someone1234 11y ago
They're giving away Windows 10 for free. So they're copying Apple's strategy and instead of back-porting, just get everyone onto the latest version.
- higherpurpose 11y ago
  We still don't know how that is going to work yet. Will they cut off updates at some point. Do users have to pay for Windows 10.1? Will all future versions of Windows forever be free for those who bought Windows 7/8? etc
  - GlickWick 11y ago
    It's hard to say, but Apple has definitely learned that people don't like paying for minor-ish OS upgrades. I hope Microsoft has learned from that.
    - danieltillett 11y ago
      I would definitely pay Apple for an upgrade of snow leopard.
      - copperx 11y ago
        Unfortunately, Apple doesn't give you the option of voting with your money anymore.
        danieltillett 11y ago
        I know :( Serious I think I am not alone in wanting to be able to run snow leopard on recent hardware. Apple please make software as good as your hardware.
  - ikeboy 11y ago
    Free for one year.
    - hirsin 11y ago
      Incorrect. Free upgrades for one year, with free updates after that for device lifetime. [1] 1. http://windows.microsoft.com/en-us/windows-10/about http://windows.microsoft.com/en-us/windows-10/about (Under Free upgrade offer)
      - ikeboy 11y ago
        That's what I mean; if you don't upgrade within the year, you don't get it for free. I was answering the last question.
- TheSisb2 11y ago
  Getting people to the latest version is the problem. People are still reportedly using IE7! Upgrading isn't about purchase cost, it's about labor cost and general know-how. I honestly thought IE11 would be the last major IE release, guess I was wrong. This new one looks no better.
  - tosh 11y ago
    It's easier to 'sell' people free updates without a lot of perceived upsides for the end-user than to 'sell' them that they also have to pay for the update :)
    - TheSisb2 11y ago
      Unless I'm going crazy, I don't think your comment makes grammatical sense. Both of those options are made to sound bad (without upsides, also have to pay?) In any case, I'm not doubting that it's easier to pitch an update if it's free. All I'm saying is that purchase cost isn't the main or only barrier to Microsoft software updates.
      - tosh 11y ago
        Sorry about the weird phrasing. What I wanted to convey is that sometimes from the user's point of view it is not easy to see/perceive any upside from upgrading (even though technically there might be lots). => hence a free upgrade is way easier to say yes to.
- aczerepinski 11y ago
  What is Microsoft's business model then? Bing ads? Kinect + ??? = Profit? (I know I'm phrasing this like a joke, but I'm genuinely curious what revenue driver(s) justify a near $400B valuation)
  - grrowl 11y ago
    They're giving away free upgrades to Windows 10, for the first year. That's all. * http://windows.microsoft.com/en-au/windows-10/about http://windows.microsoft.com/en-au/windows-10/about
  - dragonwriter 11y ago
    > What is Microsoft's business model then? New Windows licenses, licensing on lots of other software, MSDN, enterprise support, and all the things that aren't upgrades of existing Windows licenses.
Aleman360 11y ago
No, it's just that Edge is a universal app and uses API's only available in Windows 10.
- balls187 11y ago
  So, that's a Yes, Microsoft is coupling their browser.
  - outside1234 11y ago
    You mean like Safari in MacOSX, Mobile Safari in iOS, Chrome in Android or Firefox in Ubuntu? Yes. A browser is sort of a non-optional thing in an OS these days seeing how this world wide web thing is popular.
    - balls187 11y ago
      While every OS ships with a browser, I think the OP was asking "do you have to install windows 10" in order to get the new MSFT Browser. IIRC, those examples you listed, you don't need to install the latest OS X to get the latest version of Safari (though you need to have a recently supported OS).
      - eropple 11y ago
        You've always needed a reasonably recent version of OS X to use up-to-date versions of Safari. The window for "reasonably recent", right now, is Windows 10. There is no basis in fact to claim that Edge+1 will not support Windows 10, too.
        balls187 11y ago
        No need to be defensive. I'm simply stating the following sentence is true: Windows 10 and Edge are coupled.
        SomeStupidPoint 11y ago
TheSisb2 11y ago
It seems like they are. To those people down voting this comment because it comes off as a snark, it has some merit. Web developers need a new machine just to test the new IE. We already have to use multiple VMs or some other solution to test IE6-11 since you can't have more than one IE installed at a time. This just makes web development that much more difficult since now if a bug is reported in the new IE the engineer who is assigned that ticket needs access to that environment. I really hope the Microsoft team gets the hint and has one IE that is universal, across all OSs, with continued updates (Like Firefox or Chrome). It's very rare that you actually need to dive into Firefox versions or Chrome versions, but every IE issue needs the version listed specifically.
- grrowl 11y ago
  With modern.ie, you get free testing VMs and screenshots of any website rendered in IE across many devices. To test Safari on Windows, Apple provides you with many less options (certainly no free browser testing OSX VMs!). They're going above and beyond to make up for past mistakes, for that I'm grateful.
  - lewisl9029 11y ago
    OSX VMs... Now there's an idea. I'd be more than willing to pay a large premium for an officially supported version of OSX that runs in VMware/Virtualbox/Hyper-V/etc. But I suppose it probably isn't in Apple's best interests to offer one.
    - mitchty 11y ago
      It exists now, you just need to run it on an OS X machine running OS X + Fusion to be legal. I have vagrant vm's for OS X back to 10.7. You might be able to run esx on a mac then use vm's that way but I have no idea. In either case what you want has existed for some time.
      - lewisl9029 11y ago
        I should have been more specific. I was hoping for an OS X VM that runs on host OSes other than OS X.

mkozlows 11y ago

The performance boost from IE11 is nice, but the comparisons to other browsers should be taken with a major grain of salt. Because the thing is, every IE release has "beat the competition" in benchmarks leading up to its release (links below). But the thing is, other browsers don't stand still and IE releases are so infrequent, that even if IE really is super-fast at release, within six months it's an also-ran. Maybe Edge will break this pattern? It'd be nice. IE11, from November 2013: http://ie.microsoft.com/testdrive/Benchmarks/sunspider/Default.html http://ie.microsoft.com/testdrive/Benchmarks/sunspider/Defau... IE10, from 2012: http://www.extremetech.com/internet/140337-ie10-on-windows-7-benchmarked-how-does-it-fare-against-google-chrome http://www.extremetech.com/internet/140337-ie10-on-windows-7... IE9, from 2010: http://blogs.msdn.com/b/ie/archive/2010/03/18/the-new-javascript-engine-in-internet-explorer-9.aspx http://blogs.msdn.com/b/ie/archive/2010/03/18/the-new-javasc...

sgv 11y ago
While I completely agree that regular releases and an evergreen browser are extremely important in today's world (and that is the direction that Microsoft Edge is moving towards), I am not sure what point you were trying to make by saying that comparison against competition should be with a grain of salt. All three blogs that you point to talk about SunSpider benchmark (from Apple), and since IE9, or the day the first blog was published, the story holds true. Across platforms (32-bit or 64-bit), Microsoft Edge and IE remain as leaders in that benchmark across all competing browsers. The nearest competitor is around 40% slower. Here are the nos. across major browsers on SunSpider MSEdge: 103 FF Nightly : 176 Chrome Canary: 171

trose 11y ago

Exciting stuff. It feels really weird for someone to write a blog in which they discover that 95% of websites use minified JS though. I guess it's nice to see Microsoft making some progress but you have to wonder what's going on over there if they seem to clueless to the state of the modern web.

sgv 11y ago
My understanding is that the same JavaScript code minified by different minifiers will produce different performance results across any browser. This is because minifiers often introduce code patterns that are very different than the JavaScript code that the devs write. The point being made is not about being non-aware of the web, but more about ensuring the web runs faster across different code patterns that are encountered by the JIT compiler while running the web.