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Nope. We're pretty much limited by battery technology on that front; you need bigger batteries to provide more power, but those bigger batteries mean more weigh

by lambda 11y ago

Nope. We're pretty much limited by battery technology on that front; you need bigger batteries to provide more power, but those bigger batteries mean more weight, which means more power needed just to stay aloft. For a battery powered multicopter, I think an hour or so is about the highest you can get (I don't think I've seen any that claim over 40 minutes), and as you point out, most drones are closer to the 15 to 20 minute range. Of course, there are other designs like fixed wing planes which can be a bit more efficient though more complicated to navigate in confined spaces and without the ability to hover, and you can use internal combustion engines which can get you much longer flight times due to the higher energy density of their power source. But I don't think you're going to find any of the affordable, battery powered multicopters that get you anything over an hour (and even then, I would set my expectations at more like a half-hour for anything affordable in realistic conditions).

toomuchtodo 11y ago
Wireless power transmission via laser: > Stalker is a small, silent UAS used by Special Operations Forces since 2006 to perform intelligence, surveillance and reconnaissance missions. In a recent wind tunnel test, the UAS demonstrated 48 hours of continuous flight powered by this innovative laser system. > Demonstrated net positive power to Stalker in flight, at ranges up to 600 meters. > The beam director tracked the receiver for long periods, with centimeter accuracy at 500 meters, despite turbulence and aircraft maneuvers. http://lasermotive.com/products/uav-power-links/ http://lasermotive.com/products/uav-power-links/ Note they first successfully demonstrated this outdoors 3 years ago: http://www.lockheedmartin.com/us/news/press-releases/2012/august/120807ae_uas-laser-powered.html http://www.lockheedmartin.com/us/news/press-releases/2012/au...
- tomswartz07 11y ago
  This is genuinely awesome and I'm excited to see it's applications in future products. HOWEVER: I don't think it's ready for 'consumer grade' things just yet. It's one thing to have it in a controlled wind-tunnel for 48 hours, it's completely different than having it outside and in variable wind, dirt, dust, other objects, etc. Honestly, I can't imagine my luddite brother or father wrapping their minds around this just yet: "So, I point the laser at this? Why can't I just use a flashlight? Can I use the laser to charge my phone?"
- lambda 11y ago
  Yes, another approach is to not have to carry all of the energy with you. Solar charging is another possibility.
  - chinpokomon 11y ago
    I don't know that the energy density of solar cells work for their weight. Electric motors require a pretty high current. Even if you are supplementing another power source, I think you'll still be losing more than you are gaining for that application. You are probably fine with fixed wing, but multicopter designs will draw significantly more power.
    - cellularmitosis 11y ago
      I'd assume he's referring to having solar charging stations at the way-points.
- fletchowns 11y ago
  How stealthy is this thing if it has a giant laser pointed at it the whole time?
  - toomuchtodo 11y ago
    Beam coherence and illumination aren't issues at the distance and power levels used.
  - semi-extrinsic 11y ago
    We have this thing called infrared. The military is quite fond of it already for targeting lasers.
- lsaferite 11y ago
  Huh. That's actually really interesting. I have this vision of a large mother UAV with long loiter times that can laser target micro UAVs at much lower altitudes.
  - toomuchtodo 11y ago
    Definitely feasible if your mothership is a dirigible using gas turbines to power itself, using laser spotbeams to target drones below for providing remote power.
6502nerdface 11y ago
I wonder why more remote-operated drones like this aren't being designed with gasoline motors rather than electric. I remember flying all kinds of tiny gas-powered RC planes as a kid, and it's not obvious to me that the benefits of electric out-weigh the multiple-orders-of-magnitude reduction in flight time. In fact, what are the principal advantages of electric UAVs over gas-powered?
- jccooper 11y ago
  Size, noise, maintenance, predictability, simplicity, cost. Haven't seen a power/weight trade study of batteries vs engine+generator+fuel, but it may be closer than you think. There's a lot involved in a ICE power plant, and even if it did win, it'd have to be a pretty big machine compared to your average multirotor due to minimum scale on gasoline engine components. There might be a market for large endurance multirotors, but apparently it's not obviously attractive.
- lambda 11y ago
  Price and safety, I would bet.
- bri3d 11y ago
  Most quadcopters aren't gas-powered because they rely on rapidly adjusting the speed of brushless motors attached to fixed-pitch props to control their attitude. A few hobbyists have built gas quads with variable-pitch rotors, but the amount of mechanical complexity and hassle involved makes a similar nitro-powered single-rotor helicopter more appealing for most hobby applications (stunt flying etc). As more novel designs that don't rely on precise motor speed control (for example, this one) come into play, I think gas motors will make a minor resurgence as people rediscover the energy density (and therefore flight time) they can achieve. However, for most hobbyists, electric just makes more sense. It's usually quieter, works indoors, is generally a lot less of a pain in the ass to deal with (no need for starters, glow plugs, choke, adjusting mixture, engine maintenance, etc.), and is usually less heavily regulated.
  - jotm 11y ago
    Gas engines could be coupled with one or several CVT transmissions?
Grue3 11y ago
The solution is to allow the drone to hot-swap the battery. You would put a bunch of batteries along the drone's planned flight path and it would automatically detect these batteries and replace its own emptying battery with the one placed on the ground. Potentially, if autonomous drones really take off, there could be a countrywide system of solar-powered charging stations that would supply drones with standardized batteries. Such infrastructure would be almost completely self-sufficient and allow drones to fly any distance. In fact, this model also works for electric cars, manned or unmanned. There's no reason why Tesla Supercharger stations cannot provide a fully charged battery to swap into your car. Of course you'd have to deposit your own battery first so that you cannot get a battery for free.

by lambda 11y ago

toomuchtodo 11y ago

Wireless power transmission via laser: > Stalker is a small, silent UAS used by Special Operations Forces since 2006 to perform intelligence, surveillance and reconnaissance missions. In a recent wind tunnel test, the UAS demonstrated 48 hours of continuous flight powered by this innovative laser system. > Demonstrated net positive power to Stalker in flight, at ranges up to 600 meters. > The beam director tracked the receiver for long periods, with centimeter accuracy at 500 meters, despite turbulence and aircraft maneuvers. http://lasermotive.com/products/uav-power-links/ http://lasermotive.com/products/uav-power-links/ Note they first successfully demonstrated this outdoors 3 years ago: http://www.lockheedmartin.com/us/news/press-releases/2012/august/120807ae_uas-laser-powered.html http://www.lockheedmartin.com/us/news/press-releases/2012/au...

tomswartz07 11y ago
This is genuinely awesome and I'm excited to see it's applications in future products. HOWEVER: I don't think it's ready for 'consumer grade' things just yet. It's one thing to have it in a controlled wind-tunnel for 48 hours, it's completely different than having it outside and in variable wind, dirt, dust, other objects, etc. Honestly, I can't imagine my luddite brother or father wrapping their minds around this just yet: "So, I point the laser at this? Why can't I just use a flashlight? Can I use the laser to charge my phone?"
lambda 11y ago
Yes, another approach is to not have to carry all of the energy with you. Solar charging is another possibility.
- chinpokomon 11y ago
  I don't know that the energy density of solar cells work for their weight. Electric motors require a pretty high current. Even if you are supplementing another power source, I think you'll still be losing more than you are gaining for that application. You are probably fine with fixed wing, but multicopter designs will draw significantly more power.
  - cellularmitosis 11y ago
    I'd assume he's referring to having solar charging stations at the way-points.
fletchowns 11y ago
How stealthy is this thing if it has a giant laser pointed at it the whole time?
- toomuchtodo 11y ago
  Beam coherence and illumination aren't issues at the distance and power levels used.
- semi-extrinsic 11y ago
  We have this thing called infrared. The military is quite fond of it already for targeting lasers.
lsaferite 11y ago
Huh. That's actually really interesting. I have this vision of a large mother UAV with long loiter times that can laser target micro UAVs at much lower altitudes.
- toomuchtodo 11y ago
  Definitely feasible if your mothership is a dirigible using gas turbines to power itself, using laser spotbeams to target drones below for providing remote power.

6502nerdface 11y ago

I wonder why more remote-operated drones like this aren't being designed with gasoline motors rather than electric. I remember flying all kinds of tiny gas-powered RC planes as a kid, and it's not obvious to me that the benefits of electric out-weigh the multiple-orders-of-magnitude reduction in flight time. In fact, what are the principal advantages of electric UAVs over gas-powered?

jccooper 11y ago
Size, noise, maintenance, predictability, simplicity, cost. Haven't seen a power/weight trade study of batteries vs engine+generator+fuel, but it may be closer than you think. There's a lot involved in a ICE power plant, and even if it did win, it'd have to be a pretty big machine compared to your average multirotor due to minimum scale on gasoline engine components. There might be a market for large endurance multirotors, but apparently it's not obviously attractive.
lambda 11y ago
Price and safety, I would bet.
bri3d 11y ago
Most quadcopters aren't gas-powered because they rely on rapidly adjusting the speed of brushless motors attached to fixed-pitch props to control their attitude. A few hobbyists have built gas quads with variable-pitch rotors, but the amount of mechanical complexity and hassle involved makes a similar nitro-powered single-rotor helicopter more appealing for most hobby applications (stunt flying etc). As more novel designs that don't rely on precise motor speed control (for example, this one) come into play, I think gas motors will make a minor resurgence as people rediscover the energy density (and therefore flight time) they can achieve. However, for most hobbyists, electric just makes more sense. It's usually quieter, works indoors, is generally a lot less of a pain in the ass to deal with (no need for starters, glow plugs, choke, adjusting mixture, engine maintenance, etc.), and is usually less heavily regulated.
- jotm 11y ago
  Gas engines could be coupled with one or several CVT transmissions?

Grue3 11y ago

The solution is to allow the drone to hot-swap the battery. You would put a bunch of batteries along the drone's planned flight path and it would automatically detect these batteries and replace its own emptying battery with the one placed on the ground. Potentially, if autonomous drones really take off, there could be a countrywide system of solar-powered charging stations that would supply drones with standardized batteries. Such infrastructure would be almost completely self-sufficient and allow drones to fly any distance. In fact, this model also works for electric cars, manned or unmanned. There's no reason why Tesla Supercharger stations cannot provide a fully charged battery to swap into your car. Of course you'd have to deposit your own battery first so that you cannot get a battery for free.