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> As someone with an affinity for both wireless devices and mechanical keyboards, I am saddened that wireless mechanical keyboards are few and far between. The
by chimeracoder 11y ago
> As someone with an affinity for both wireless devices and mechanical keyboards, I am saddened that wireless mechanical keyboards are few and far between.
There are two reasons for this. First, mechanical keyboards are generally larger than other keyboards, which makes them less portable.
Secondly, mechanical keyboards are oftentimes used by professional gamers, and for their use case, wireless just doesn't cut it. Higher latency (and more importantly - higher variance latency), as well as multi-key rollover[0]
That said, as someone who owns two Das keyboards and hates typing on laptop keyboards (or, worse, on tablet screens), I'm very happy to see this!
[0] Even the Das keyboards don't support n-key rollover over USB; you need to use PS/2 cables, IIRC: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rollover_%28key%29 https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rollover_%28key%29
- archagon 11y agoI think "professional" gamers tend to be needlessly fussy about their equipment. I beat Super Meat Boy 100% with a wireless gamepad with no issues at all. I also use a wireless gaming mouse to play Counter-Strike and other FPS. These are both Logitech products so they use their own receivers instead of Bluetooth (presumably for better performance), but it looks like this keyboard mod is doing the same thing.
- rcthompson 11y agoI know someone who looked into Logitech's wireless protocol. He said it was just Bluetooth with some magic numbers changed to separate it from real Bluetooth.
- archagon 11y agoMaybe, but I do know that Logitech differentiates between their normal wireless peripherals and their gaming peripherals, especially in regards to products like the 500hz G602 mouse.
- nightski 11y agoFor me it is batteries. Why deal with connection issues/batteries for a peripheral that never leaves the desk? Seems ridiculous.
- archagon 11y agoMy mouse lasts about a month, and I much prefer the experience to getting my movement occasionally (frequently) cramped by a rigid cable!
- nacs 11y agoIf its a frequent problem, you can use a mouse bungee [1] [2] [3] to prevent it. They're targeted at the gaming crowd and most "pro gamers" use those. I'm sure you could rig up a cheaper solution with sticky tape or something if you don't want to buy one. [1]: http://i.imgur.com/l8Ynobn.jpg http://i.imgur.com/l8Ynobn.jpg [2]: http://www.amazon.com/Mouse-Bungee-Management-Fixer-Holder/dp/B00IE00HTW/ http://www.amazon.com/Mouse-Bungee-Management-Fixer-Holder/d... (~$9) [3]: http://www.amazon.com/Thermaltake-Tt-eSPORTS-Galeru-EAC-MSB001/dp/B00BOVOED8/ http://www.amazon.com/Thermaltake-Tt-eSPORTS-Galeru-EAC-MSB0... (~$20)
- monochromatic 11y agoYeah but a mouse moves in use. A keyboard just sits there. I don't understand the allure of wireless keyboards.
- DrStalker 11y agoFor me the big problem isn't battery life, it's cats deciding to knock the mouse onto the floor and hide it. A wired mouse makes this very easy to fix!
- Moru 11y agoTrick from old dog: When using wired keyboard with wired mouse, use the cable-binder that came with either device to bind the two cables together leaving enough length of the mouse cable so it can move freely. This has the added advantage that your mouse cable won't break as fast because of movement.
- Dewie3 11y agoThere is no need for scare quotes since professional gamers are a thing. Unless you meant serious or hardcore gamers, in which case I don't know why you didn't just write that. I don't think professionals are playing SMB. CS though, probably.
- archagon 11y agoSure, but real professional gamers are few and far between. It would be a stretch to claim that their fairly unique peripheral needs are the reason why wireless keyboards are scarce in general. No — I think it's exactly the scare-quote professional gamers who scoff at things like wireless keyboards and keep them from becoming popular. I didn't write serious or hardcore because I was responding to the language in the parent post. And I mentioned SMB because it's a game that really tests your reflexes.
- darkerside 11y agoFair point, and that's what you should have responded to the parent post with. Making an irrelevant remark about non-professional gamers came off as quite condescending.
- archagon 11y agoSorry, I guess I'm just annoyed at all the armchair professional gamers on /r/games talking about what's supposedly best for everyone and whatnot.
- lawl 11y agoI don't think the problem is necessarily the latency. But with wireless keyboard/mouse I sometimes had the issue of a key not beeing registered, or a fast mouse movement. Sometimes just randomly or when the batteries were getting low. For regular use that's not too much of a problem, as it happens rarely, but even for somewhat serious gaming that's not acceptable, as it can cost you hours of progression, a lost match or whatever.
- noeleon 11y agoNew Das Keyboards do support nKey Rollover via USB [1]. [1]: http://www.daskeyboard.com/daskeyboard-4-ultimate/ http://www.daskeyboard.com/daskeyboard-4-ultimate/
- MaulingMonkey 11y agoOlder das keyboards supported 6-key rollover via USB (running into protocol limits) or 12-key rollover via PS/2, IIRC.
- darklajid 11y agoInteresting that this site states Just press shift + mute to toggle NKRO. I understand why you would want this enabled. I'm not sure I understand the negative implications, so - what are potential reasons to _disable_ that?
- MaulingMonkey 11y agoThat is curious. Relying on an extra driver? Acting like multiple keyboards on a USB hub to work around USB protocol limitations, possibly causing complications or weirdness? </wildlyguessing>
- xorcist 11y agoSome BIOSes doesn't work with NKRO enabled. If yours does, you can safely enable it.
- Dylan16807 11y agoLatency is bad, but it's pretty trivial to build a short range ultra-low-bandwidth wireless connection that will never have a latency of 1ms or greater. And for a human inputting via a mechanical device into a desktop operating system, that's as good as zero. The default on a USB keyboard is polling every several milliseconds anyway.
- ksk 11y agoIf it is so trivial, then why do all wireless keyboards not do this?
- Dylan16807 11y agoDo they not? Probably because they're using simpler chips and they're conserving battery power instead of sending the message at 5x the necessary strength every tenth of a millisecond. Or because they're hooked up to USB, or using 5ms of debouncing anyway, so the extra bit of latency isn't enough for them to care.
- Encosia 11y agoI can't remember using a wireless keyboard in the last decade that had any noticeable latency. Even a cheap HP Wireless Elite that I tried on a whim recently had no visible latency as I typed.
- Nullabillity 11y agoI'd like to know, on the other hand, what's the supposed benefit of wireless? On a laptop the cable length shouldn't be an issue anyway, and on a desktop you can, in the worst case, get an extension cable for a couple of bucks. And what do you get in exchange? Batteries that need to be swapped and slightly (though arguably neglegible) worse performance.
- kedean 11y agoWell, no cables, for one. It's not a huge complaint, but fewer cables on the desk is a beautiful thing. Also, easier transport.
- walterbell 11y agoGoldtouch (IBM/Lexmark heritage) makes a foldable bluetooth ergonomic mechanical keyboard, http://www.goldtouch.com/go2-goes-wireless/ http://www.goldtouch.com/go2-goes-wireless/ & http://www.amazon.com/Goldtouch-Wireless-Bluetooth-Mobile-Keyboard/dp/B00GXPIFTE http://www.amazon.com/Goldtouch-Wireless-Bluetooth-Mobile-Ke...
- Encosia 11y agoI've love to see some sort of blind visual latency test between a wired and quality wireless keyboard. I've been using wireless keyboards since around 2005, am fairly allergic to latency in any device, but couldn't imagine going back to the shackles of a wired keyboard or mouse now.