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Except that this one, um, is. They mention explicitly that tanker fuel has half the allowable maximum of sulpur on average, but it's still a travesty and can b

Except that this one, um, is. They mention explicitly that tanker fuel has half the allowable maximum of sulpur on average, but it's still a travesty and can be cut down substantially if proper measures are applied. It's unfortunate that environmental policy is dictated in terms of sensationalism rather than actual impact. Rational policy outlook should have certainly looked at shipping as one of the first causes of airborne pollution.

cperciva 17y ago
Rational policy outlook should have certainly looked at shipping as one of the first causes of airborne pollution. Rational policy outlook should have started by looking at the adverse effects of airborne pollution. What are the adverse effects of releasing SO2 into the atmosphere over the middle of the ocean? What and where matter just as much as how much.
- illumen 17y ago
  Air moves. Pollution from one country /half way around the world/ can float to where you live. Most ships are closer than /halfway around the world/ to pieces of land as they travel from one side of the world to the other. Where do you think all of the sulphur and CO2(also mentioned in the article) goes? It doesn't float off into space. In London, I'd be way more worried about the air in the subway system. The London subway has some of the most filthiest air you will ever experience. It has that tar sulphur smell to it.
  - cperciva 17y ago
    Air moves Yes, but it moves slowly. Where do you think all of the sulphur and CO2 goes? The lifetime of SO2 in the atmosphere is no more than a few days; before it can reach land, most of it is converted to (SO4)^{2-}. I agree with you where CO2 is concerned, because CO2 is not rapidly eliminated from the atmosphere -- but the article isn't talking about CO2.
    - lutorm 17y ago
      Right. The SO2 goes into the ocean and makes them more acidic. The trouble is that CO2 is already doing the same thing, and we don't need oceans with lower pH.
      - cperciva 17y ago
        The SO2 goes into the ocean and makes them more acidic. Yep. But worldwide SO2 emissions are approximately 2.2 * 10^12 mol/year, which -- given the oceans' volume of approximately 1.3 billion cubic kilometers -- would translate to an annual increase in ocean (SO4)^{2-} concentration of 0.0000000017 mol/L, even if every molecule of SO2 released into the atmosphere ended up in the oceans in the form of (SO4)^{2-}. Given that seawater already contains approximately 0.028 mol/L of (SO4)^{2-}, I don't think this is a rate of increase which we particularly need to worry about.

cperciva 17y ago

Rational policy outlook should have certainly looked at shipping as one of the first causes of airborne pollution. Rational policy outlook should have started by looking at the adverse effects of airborne pollution. What are the adverse effects of releasing SO2 into the atmosphere over the middle of the ocean? What and where matter just as much as how much.

illumen 17y ago
Air moves. Pollution from one country /half way around the world/ can float to where you live. Most ships are closer than /halfway around the world/ to pieces of land as they travel from one side of the world to the other. Where do you think all of the sulphur and CO2(also mentioned in the article) goes? It doesn't float off into space. In London, I'd be way more worried about the air in the subway system. The London subway has some of the most filthiest air you will ever experience. It has that tar sulphur smell to it.
- cperciva 17y ago
  Air moves Yes, but it moves slowly. Where do you think all of the sulphur and CO2 goes? The lifetime of SO2 in the atmosphere is no more than a few days; before it can reach land, most of it is converted to (SO4)^{2-}. I agree with you where CO2 is concerned, because CO2 is not rapidly eliminated from the atmosphere -- but the article isn't talking about CO2.
  - lutorm 17y ago
    Right. The SO2 goes into the ocean and makes them more acidic. The trouble is that CO2 is already doing the same thing, and we don't need oceans with lower pH.
    - cperciva 17y ago
      The SO2 goes into the ocean and makes them more acidic. Yep. But worldwide SO2 emissions are approximately 2.2 * 10^12 mol/year, which -- given the oceans' volume of approximately 1.3 billion cubic kilometers -- would translate to an annual increase in ocean (SO4)^{2-} concentration of 0.0000000017 mol/L, even if every molecule of SO2 released into the atmosphere ended up in the oceans in the form of (SO4)^{2-}. Given that seawater already contains approximately 0.028 mol/L of (SO4)^{2-}, I don't think this is a rate of increase which we particularly need to worry about.