5 ms·

SSH Communications Security Announces Patent Enforcement Action

40 points by zurn 11y ago

zurn 11y ago
https://www.google.tl/patents/EP2254311B1?cl=en https://www.google.tl/patents/EP2254311B1?cl=en Seems this is just the bog standard keepalive packet to keep NAT port mapping from expiring.
- api 11y ago
  So all SIP phones, BitTorrent uTP, Skype, and pretty much anything P2P infringes?
  - nine_k 11y ago
    Hopefully SSH itself does not depend on this exact implementation, and can be updated to use something non-infringing?
    - smhenderson 11y ago
      The details in the press release are thin but my impression is this has nothing to do with SSH other than the fact that the creators of the protocol are the ones doing the suing. I was worried by the headline but reading the article this looks like it's more about going after someone with deep pockets over a trivial patent. My guess is they are fishing for a quick settlement. Something to keep an eye on though. Sigh, I miss groklaw.
tedunangst 11y ago
> The lawsuit involves a European Patent registered in Germany Aren't people always saying software patents don't exist in Europe?
- wnevets 11y ago
  no? I've seen people say patents don't exist in china.
  - gcb0 11y ago
    last time i looked (without much effort) i learned they have it just like any other (but with their quasi-communist dressing on names), but they didn't recognize international ones that easily.
  - fragmede 11y ago
    They don't. Look at MediaTek. They have the MT6250 which is an amazing chipset for the price of $2. Unfortunately, they haven't licensed the patents, which means you can't commercialize a product based on that chipset in the US, where patent protections do exist.
- fs111 11y ago
  "it's complicated" From what I understand: Some countries have them and the EU cannot break those for some reason, which makes them enforcable EU wide.
  - detaro 11y ago
    More like "there is pretty ambiguous wording in the relevant rules". They list Software "as such" as non-patentable, but that doesn't necessarily covers the principle by which the software operates. Different european and national organizations have varying interpretations of where the boundaries exactly are. Once the objection period for a patent has passed it is up to the national courts of the issuing country to decide about them. It's going to be interesting to see if the German courts hold that patent up or not (I'd guess they won't, but I haven't followed it o closely)
spacemanmatt 11y ago
Is there anything that is not abstract about their patent? The Alice ruling sure makes defending pure software patents harder.
- dsl 11y ago
  Alice Corp. v. CLS Bank has no impact in German courts.
kayfox 11y ago
So, from the patent it looks like they patented TCP Keepalives which were documented in section 4.2.3.6 of RFC1122 from 1989... http://tools.ietf.org/html/rfc1122#page-101 http://tools.ietf.org/html/rfc1122#page-101 Edit: Reading further, the patent is construed to cover anything IP based. I also noted that RFC1122 is not referenced anywhere in the patent, despite extensive references to other RFCs. Also, is it normal to have patents granted 11 years after filing in Europe? I know in the US we have changed the laws several times to discourage and eliminate submarine patents.
JoshTriplett 11y ago
"SSH Communications Security announces failure to remain relevant" Every time an announcement like this comes out, it's almost always for a company that has utterly failed to thrive by providing a useful product, and thus decides to descend into litigation against other people's useful products instead.
- easytiger 11y ago
  from personal experience I can tell you there are no limits to how unfair and disgusting some people will be if they can make money out of it.
bcg1 11y ago
Kind of puts Sony in an interesting position... their defense against this could end up being part of precedent that weakens EU software patents... I haven't researched but based on other "intellectual property" actions in the past I assume they are pro-patent and have a massive portfolio.
based2 11y ago
http://www.vandyke.com/products/vshell/faq/015.html http://www.vandyke.com/products/vshell/faq/015.html

40 points by zurn 11y ago

zurn 11y ago

https://www.google.tl/patents/EP2254311B1?cl=en https://www.google.tl/patents/EP2254311B1?cl=en Seems this is just the bog standard keepalive packet to keep NAT port mapping from expiring.

api 11y ago
So all SIP phones, BitTorrent uTP, Skype, and pretty much anything P2P infringes?
- nine_k 11y ago
  Hopefully SSH itself does not depend on this exact implementation, and can be updated to use something non-infringing?
  - smhenderson 11y ago
    The details in the press release are thin but my impression is this has nothing to do with SSH other than the fact that the creators of the protocol are the ones doing the suing. I was worried by the headline but reading the article this looks like it's more about going after someone with deep pockets over a trivial patent. My guess is they are fishing for a quick settlement. Something to keep an eye on though. Sigh, I miss groklaw.

tedunangst 11y ago

> The lawsuit involves a European Patent registered in Germany Aren't people always saying software patents don't exist in Europe?

wnevets 11y ago
no? I've seen people say patents don't exist in china.
- gcb0 11y ago
  last time i looked (without much effort) i learned they have it just like any other (but with their quasi-communist dressing on names), but they didn't recognize international ones that easily.
- fragmede 11y ago
  They don't. Look at MediaTek. They have the MT6250 which is an amazing chipset for the price of $2. Unfortunately, they haven't licensed the patents, which means you can't commercialize a product based on that chipset in the US, where patent protections do exist.
fs111 11y ago
"it's complicated" From what I understand: Some countries have them and the EU cannot break those for some reason, which makes them enforcable EU wide.
- detaro 11y ago
  More like "there is pretty ambiguous wording in the relevant rules". They list Software "as such" as non-patentable, but that doesn't necessarily covers the principle by which the software operates. Different european and national organizations have varying interpretations of where the boundaries exactly are. Once the objection period for a patent has passed it is up to the national courts of the issuing country to decide about them. It's going to be interesting to see if the German courts hold that patent up or not (I'd guess they won't, but I haven't followed it o closely)

spacemanmatt 11y ago

Is there anything that is not abstract about their patent? The Alice ruling sure makes defending pure software patents harder.

dsl 11y ago
Alice Corp. v. CLS Bank has no impact in German courts.

kayfox 11y ago

So, from the patent it looks like they patented TCP Keepalives which were documented in section 4.2.3.6 of RFC1122 from 1989... http://tools.ietf.org/html/rfc1122#page-101 http://tools.ietf.org/html/rfc1122#page-101 Edit: Reading further, the patent is construed to cover anything IP based. I also noted that RFC1122 is not referenced anywhere in the patent, despite extensive references to other RFCs. Also, is it normal to have patents granted 11 years after filing in Europe? I know in the US we have changed the laws several times to discourage and eliminate submarine patents.

JoshTriplett 11y ago

"SSH Communications Security announces failure to remain relevant" Every time an announcement like this comes out, it's almost always for a company that has utterly failed to thrive by providing a useful product, and thus decides to descend into litigation against other people's useful products instead.

easytiger 11y ago
from personal experience I can tell you there are no limits to how unfair and disgusting some people will be if they can make money out of it.

bcg1 11y ago

Kind of puts Sony in an interesting position... their defense against this could end up being part of precedent that weakens EU software patents... I haven't researched but based on other "intellectual property" actions in the past I assume they are pro-patent and have a massive portfolio.

based2 11y ago

http://www.vandyke.com/products/vshell/faq/015.html http://www.vandyke.com/products/vshell/faq/015.html