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I applaud Elon, but I gotta say I'm uncomfortable with the extreme adulation. His company merged into Paypal -- he did not invent that payment solution. He wa

• Roritharr 11y ago
  I see him more as an outrageously lucky person that does the very best with the insane amount of fortune that he got. That image alone is inspiring enough, for most of us are proportionally fortunate aswell and should aspire to do as much with our gifts.
  • zeidrich 11y ago
    He's a really smart guy, but there are lots of really smart guys out there. He's a really lucky guy, but there are lots of really lucky guys out there. There aren't many really smart, really lucky guys out there. One of the challenges is when we see really smart, really lucky guys, we tend to think of them as unbelievably smart and kind of lucky. One of the bigger challenges is when they start to see themselves that way.
    • fraserharris 11y ago
      "The harder I work, the luckier I get" - Samuel Goldwyn
      • agumonkey 11y ago
        Seems like luck is the ignorant term for ignorance.
      • senna 11y ago
        Well then, slaves must be really lucky then. Samuel Goldwyn (1879, 1974) - Died living a lie.
  • higherpurpose 11y ago
    If you read Outliers you'll see Bill Gates was also "very lucky".
  • Panoramix 11y ago
    No such thing as luck. I read the article and I wouldn't know what qualifies as outrageously lucky. The NASA deal that came just in time, maybe. But it's not luck to get a contract for launching rockets if you already demonstrated you can do it.
    • anonydsfsfs 11y ago
      His parents were well-educated and part of the upper-class. This was pure luck and afforded him countless opportunities he wouldn't have otherwise. It's hard to overstate how lucky this was. He had access to very good schooling in his childhood and free time to pursue his interests (computer programming). This was pure luck and critically important in forming who he is today. He was able to obtain Canadian citizenship through his mother. This was pure luck and was very important when he emigrated to the US.
      • Barraketh 11y ago
        These are all incredibly lucky w.r.t the world at large. However, amongst HN readers and the tech community, there are millions of people who are U.S / Canadian citizens, with educated parents, and who know how to program. What were the 'outrageously lucky' factors that separated Musk from these millions?
        • anonydsfsfs 11y ago
          I don't know, I just know he's one of the luckiest people on the planet. Even if we accept that there are, say, 100 million people who had the same luck in those three measures, that puts him the top 1.5% of the world's population. And that's all before he becomes an adult.
        • DrStalker 11y ago
          There are two parts to being lucky: 1) What sort of luck comes your way? 2) Are you able to take advantage of the good luck and minimize the effects of bad luck? If i'd had the exact same lucky breaks as Elon Musk I would not have been as successful, because I'm not as good at step 2 as he is.
  • joeyspn 11y ago
    Yeah, to achieve that level of success you definitely need luck, but don't forget that luck has to surprise you while you’re working your arse off...
• Swizec 11y ago
  With Jobs gone, we need a new hero-inventor to worship. Such is life. Seriously though, when I was a kid I would read about "famous scientists of old" every night. They were my rockstars. Edison, Watt, Lister, the list goes on. I had a book about them, their lives, their inventions. Everything. I must have read that book a thousand times before I was 14. Then one day when I was 18 I visited the London technical museum. In it was a Watt exhibit. It said "Watt bought a lot of patents, he invented a few small things, but his main innovation was leasing steam engines instead of selling them." It was then that I realized all those scientists of old I worship weren't scientists at all. They were good engineers. Excellent integrators of other people's inventions and work. Magnificent funders of scientists' work. But most of all they were businessmen. Because it doesn't matter who invents a thing, what matters is who uses the thing to bring actual change to people. It doesn't matter who invented the lightbulb. It matters who invented the electricity grid so people could actually use lightbulbs in their homes.
  • chriskanan 11y ago
    The Story of Science is a great six part BBC documentary that talks a lot about the phenomenon you are describing, and episode four talks about Watt specifically. I highly recommend it, and it can be found online. http://www.dailymotion.com/video/x1xxn3o_bbc-the-story-of-science-power-proof-and-passion-4-of-6-can-we-have-unlimited-power_tv http://www.dailymotion.com/video/x1xxn3o_bbc-the-story-of-sc... http://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/b00s9mms http://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/b00s9mms http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Story_of_Science:_Power,_Proof_and_Passion http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Story_of_Science:_Power,_Pr...
  • Nadya 11y ago
    When I was young, I had a large amount of respect for Edison. When I found out the truth - that he was a businessman more than an inventor - it was quite a let down. Many of his ideas were stolen from people who worked beneath him and the publicity campaign for DC power over AC power is simply terrible. >it doesn't matter who invents a thing, what matters is who uses the thing to bring actual change to people. And this is the sad truth of many famous 'inventors'.
• drzaiusapelord 11y ago
  If you don't like this then I'm sure you'll hate the eventual, "Where did we go wrong with the electric car," articles after Tesla fails to deliver a $20,000 EV before going bankrupt. If the government pulls its corporate welfare, which it probably will under a GOP administration, Tesla is going to die a quick death. Elon can't bring Li-Ion down to any level for compete with ICE cars, has terrible financials, and there's something very off putting politically about hard-working middle-class families subsidizing ultra-sports cars for the wealthy. The title of this article is amusing because it seems to suggest that SpaceX is Elon's side bet and Tesla is some grand vision. Its not. If anything SpaceX is the great success here and if I was a betting man I'd say Tesla will become a footnote in history when SpaceX succeeds. I just wish he wasn't so anti-AI and anti-robot. I'm assuming he really needs to sell the public on human, not robotic, spaceflight for his company to succeed.
  • mason240 11y ago
    >there's something very off putting politically about hard-working middle-class families subsidizing ultra-sports cars for the wealthy. It seemed to work out for our current President, who subsidized auto manufacturers through bailouts and "Cash for Clunkers" to buy electoral votes in OH and MI.
  • vvanders 11y ago
    Only a very small part of income car is based on ZEV credits and if those were to go away they'd still have a ~20% profit margin which is well above most traditional auto companies. Their negative income has to do with the rapid expansion they are doing right now. There always seems to be this ZOMG government bailout around Tesla when that's not really the case when you look at the entire picture.
    • Enzolangellotti 11y ago
      They have a 22.6% GAAP gross margin excluding ZEV credits, BUT unlike every other car manufacturer Tesla doesn't account for R&D and engineering expenses as a fraction of COGS (that's why Elon can claim they are up there with Porsche and Audi, but that's a blatant lie). Just examine their 10-K. Sometimes Tesla can be so opaque and impervious to questioning.
• ChuckMcM 11y ago
  There is a certain kind of crazy, the one where you can have $10M in the bank after a lot of hard work and struggle. And then put all of it at risk for something you believe in and everyone else is telling you is stupid. In gambling it is that person who has a fortune in their chip pile and they say "let it ride", except in this case bankruptcy is on the other side. I think Elon deserves all the credit there. I think of it as a Ferris Beuller complex, people who just "go for it" without a safety net, betting they will be able to adapt, avoid, and overcome any obstacle that gets thrown at them. It is a level of fearlessness that is not supported by any rational process, and it is the thing that turns people from ordinary into extraordinary. It doesn't always work out. There are always stories of people for whom they didn't dodge when they needed to. And like stories of "can't miss" hedge fund traders, are suddenly just as broke as most of the world. But you have to respect people that can operate at that level of stress. The money quote is this one: “What he went through in 2008 would have broken anyone else. Most people who are under that sort of pressure fray. Their decisions go bad. Elon gets hyperrational. He’s still able to make very clear, long-term decisions. The harder it gets, the better he gets.” That is a rare thing
  • Enzolangellotti 11y ago
    That's a hagiography right there.
    • hitekker 11y ago
      Many of the people who believe in him could very well be people who wish to be him. Likewise, many of those against Elon Musk might feel inferior to him and therefore try to diminish what he has accomplished. I am of the opinion that self-value should not be contingent upon the perceived value of others.
      • senna 11y ago
        >many of those against Elon Musk might feel inferior to him and therefore try to diminish what he has accomplished that's just something you made up, pal
  • 11y ago
• mej10 11y ago
  How many people owned Teslas before Musk took over?
  • OrwellianChild 11y ago
    A bit over 400. Of those, 75% of them needed to be recalled due to manufacturing issues. [1][2] My perception is that Musk brings very capable executive-level management to his projects. Tesla was dying without strong leadership (and had a string of temporary CEOs prior to Musk). [1] http://www.businessinsider.com/tesla-recalls-345-roadsters-2009-5 http://www.businessinsider.com/tesla-recalls-345-roadsters-2... [2] http://www.businessinsider.com/tesla-the-origin-story-2014-10 http://www.businessinsider.com/tesla-the-origin-story-2014-1... EDIT: Fixed citations...
    • mej10 11y ago
      Oh, nice! I wonder if that should be added to the wikipedia article?
    • a8da6b0c91d 11y ago
      Tesla is still on a course to meet with death. They lose a lot of money and there is zero credible plan to arrive at profitability. I wonder what all the hagiographers will say when Tesla goes belly up in the next recession.
• sandstrom 11y ago
  Regarding Paypal, I think it's fair to say it was a merger of equals (Confinity and X.com). This post gives some more insights into the merger, I found it an interesting read. http://gawker.com/230076/an-alternate-history-according-to-elon-musk http://gawker.com/230076/an-alternate-history-according-to-e...
• zem 11y ago
  read heinlein's "the man who sold the moon" for a very good portrait of a hero-entrepreneur-visionary. i think that's more in line with musk's mystique than hero-inventor; he's not so much the man who invents things as the man who collects inventors together and makes things happen.
• marze 11y ago
  Why is this rather pointless comment voted so highly? You could certainly argue that Musk was quite fortunate at certain key points, but really, who else has accomplished anything remotely similar?
• maaku 11y ago
  SpaceX was pretty much him though.
  • agumonkey 11y ago
    For a reason, I always thought he was Tesla founder and only a SpaceX space-fan investor.
• run4yourlives2 11y ago
  Reading the article, there is enough even there to give credit to the adulation. The guy's main company is SpaceX, oh and while he was figuring out how to launch rockets into space at a fraction of the cost of the norm (a massive challenge), he happened to rescue another company that he became CEO of from bankruptcy. The big losers in Musk's life are clearly his wife and kids, but I don't see how you can suggest he didn't do (and continues to do) some very very special things for humanity as a whole. If the electric car succeeds and we move from fossil fuels in a big way, he will be a major reason for this. If we commercialize space and become a space-faring species, the same position holds. I'm not sure how admiring that is hero worship.
  • tajen 11y ago
    > The big losers in Musk's life are clearly his wife and kids He met his first wife at age ~20 then divorced her at 37. He was already successful when he met his second wife, so she knew what was in the social contract and probably chose on purpose.
  • def_illiterate 11y ago
    Hear hear.
• deleted 11y ago
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  • zaroth 11y ago
    What did I just read? :-) Better with line breaks.
    • deleted 11y ago
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• deleted 11y ago
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• throwaway23432 11y ago
  I've tried editing a bunch but always get downvotes, so here it is on a throwaway. -> how would you work Hyperloop into your list of examples? You couldn't, in my opinion, because it's counter to your argument and position, which is needlessly, gratuitously negative. Perhaps you can't see the difference between someone to idolize, who is an engineer that can proceed from first principles to leaving no stone, degree of freedom, or axis unturned and delivering a solution...and, someone like kzhahou above who literally ignores 1 out of 4 examples we have of Musk's invention, creativity and leadership. (The 4 examples we have are as a PayPal cofounder only, as a Tesla investor and ALSO product architect - his official role -, which we can see whenever he talks about the trade-offs, as a SpaceX investor, and in envisioning and engineering the basic constraints in HyperLoop.) you are saying the "inaccuracy" of him being a hero-inventor doesn't serve us well. I say it does, because people will give him money, and he can deliver on great designs as he has proven an ability to do. taking that away from him because you're uncomfortable with extreme adulation is the opposite of everything capitalism stands for: if you prove you can design, engineer, build, manage, and lead to great things, you get to do more of them. (sorry you can't tell the difference, but reflecting on why you chose to leave out the quarter of his ventures that he is chief inventor on would serve you well. also reflecting on the degree to which he is product architect at tesla would do the same. finally you can look at zip2, which is what he did, including personally, before payapl.)
  • ForHackernews 11y ago
    Hyperloop doesn't exist. Musk isn't even trying to implement it, and lots of good engineers think it's totally impractical. If anything, it's a good counter example to his other ventures, which are outstanding executions of non-visionary ideas. At any rate, parent comment is correct that there's an unhealthy degree of hero-worship veneration for Musk around these parts.
    • waterlesscloud 11y ago
      What, specifically, is "unhealthy" about it?
    • throwaway23432 11y ago
• Htsthbjig 11y ago
  Paypal did not invent electronic payment. Tesla did not invent the electric car or batteries. SpaceX did not invent rockets. SolarCity did not invent solar roofs. But I have an enormous respect for this man, just making rockets affordable is a great service for humanity. "That's undoubtedly a better story" (Citation needed) This sounds to me like : I feel so envious because someone else did something remarkable, that if I accept to give merit to him I will be accepting that I could do better than I do. So something, somewhere must exist to prove he has not merit. "but I don't think inaccuracy actually serves us well." Again (Citation needed), after stating your prejudice, you jump to take it as fact. What is inaccurate about Elon here? The article talks about good, but also not so good things about Elon personality. I created my own companies and had to take very similar risks in my life, with everybody in my life believing I was crazy when I put "safe" money in the bank at risk(specially in Europe and Asia taking risks is a big no,no). Everything in the article sounds pretty veridical for anyone with experience in this field.
  • mozumder 11y ago
    > But I have an enormous respect for this man, just making rockets affordable is a great service for humanity. His business means rockets are going to go from $400 million to $150 million. That's nice and all, but it's not an extraordinary revolution. For equivalent, or cheaper rockets, see the Indian space program. They've launched rockets to Mars for cheap already. I don't get the millennials adulation for him, either. Seems like a random guy for so many millennials to latch onto. My guess is, because millennials never grew up with the amazing Apollo or Space Shuttle era, they feel Elon is somehow doing something novel and innovative, even with the Indian/Chines space programs going on as well. If you want to see some sci-fi magic, just look at the Space Shuttle, That's some amazing witchcraft right there. The ideas NASA were throwing around in the 70's were insane. They were talking about constructing giant space stations with multiple shuttle vehicles at a time, with artificial gravity. Too bad Nixon killed their funding.
    • seesomesense 11y ago
      "The Indian Space Research Organisation (ISRO) completed the Mars Orbiter Mission with a budget of just $74 million"
• btian 11y ago
  Or just that Silicon Valley is a place that celebrates execution over ideas. After all, it is not that difficult to imagine an electric plane with 4 seats that flies itself, but it's damn hard to make one. Apple didn't invent anything, but look at iPhone sales.
• whyenot 11y ago
  All three of Musk's most recent ventures (SolarCity, Tesla, and SpaceX), depend either on direct or indirect government subsidies. It's not just that Musk is a workaholic, or possibly innovative, but his ability to "work" the system that sets him apart. US tax payers are paying a significant portion of the bills for his ventures. Since I agree with his goals, it doesn't personally bother me very much but it still is something worth thinking about.
  • NhanH 11y ago
    US Tax payers will be paying for something, considering that the majority of the US economy is private, and the government has to get stuffs done somehow. So if you agree with the goals of a private entity that the government is spending the money on, it's about as good as it could be.
  • anon4this1 11y ago
    If the govt offers subsidies/handouts/contracts, then you take them. It is simply good business, whether you need them or not.