4 ms·

Russian citizen here. This sort of things I have regularly been hearing about the US over the last decade make me really sad. Some 20 years ago America was a s

Russian citizen here. This sort of things I have regularly been hearing about the US over the last decade make me really sad. Some 20 years ago America was a symbol of civil liberties for us. I considered one day maybe going there to work and live. A few years ago I still entertained an idea of going there for an internship. Today I'd be scared to go there even as a tourist or on a short business trip. Let's say I go there. Then what? My cell phone and laptop can be confiscated at the airport for no reason. When I continue on to the streets I can be mugged by the police and get all of my money taken from me. And then when I go on without my phone or any money in my pocket, I can get killed in a mass shooting by yet another disgruntled worker who's just been laid off or by a high school freak whose girlfriend has just left him. Or maybe I don't get shot but then get sued by somebody for whatever reason and then I'm going to need from a few hundred thousands bucks to a few millions to defend myself in a court. Which will probably consider a Russian citizen a hacker and a criminal and pronounce me guilty anyway. Sound like a true third world country to me. I'm not saying Russia is much better. But it's not the same America I've gotten to know from the movies of the 60s-80s. What happened to you? How have you fallen so low?

senorito 11y ago
German citizen here. I wouldn't even consider going on vacation there anymore.
- deleted 11y ago
  [deleted]
stefantalpalaru 11y ago
> But it's not the same America I've gotten to know from the movies of the 60s-80s. It never was. You just grew up and now you're able to see past the propaganda.
JustSomeNobody 11y ago
The internet happened. We are no less corrupt than we ever were. We are just more obvious about it now because of the internet. People always think, "oh, things were so much better back in the day". In reality, no, they weren't. It was just different. Back in the day, we wouldn't let blacks use the same bathroom or water fountain. Now we steal their money. It is the same America it always was. We just have more people airing our dirty laundry.
- bluejellybean 11y ago
  This is very true. The propaganda filter is gone now. >Now we steal their money. Subtle comment but it's true. Most white, affluent citizens don't ever run into these types of police state problems. In a sense, we are no different than leap_ahead in that we are finally seeing what the poor black community has had to experience for generations. It's scary for sure but the zeitgeist seems to be shifting. I have high hopes of the future but then again maybe I'm just overly optimistic.
- humanrebar 11y ago
  > We are no less corrupt than we ever were. I'm not sure. America used to be a lot more diverse in how it was governed. Thought Chicago was too corrupt? Move to California. More and more issues are becoming federal issues (drugs, bridge maintenance, even), so corruption and injustice becomes a universal problem.
- astazangasta 11y ago
  I think this is true to some extent (corruption of this sort has always existed), but it is getting worse. More inequality, more corrupt legislatures, more transparent moves to aid the powerful. Reagan raised taxes when he had to. His scions stoutly refuse in his name. Nixon created the EPA. It is definitely worse now. The right is more right; the left is more right.
Amezarak 11y ago
These things happen, but they are incredibly unlikely to happen to you. They're trumpeted in the media and discussed on HN because they are so outrageous to our sensibilities, not because they are common, everyday occurrences. They're very rare in a country of 300 million - but still too common on the grounds they should never happen. In reality, you would be much better off and safer visiting the US now than you would have been in the past - especially the 60s and 80s.
marcosdumay 11y ago
Brazilian citizen here. Do you realize that the news report thing out of proportion, right?
- leap_ahead 11y ago
  Of course. But the thing is, they actually reported what really happened. Conversely, do you realize this sort of things shouldn't be really happening in what claims to be the most advanced and civilized country on this planet? I'm not hearing of this crap happening in central Europe for instance. You can expect these things from some forgotten African country, but not really from one of the so called first-world countries. Really, those government agents should have had access to sufficient information to determine if those 160000 dollars had a legitimate origin and a legitimate objective. Where's the due process please? For many people this sum could represent several years of savings. The government can't just take it for no reason. Perhaps this poor black guy should consider emigration from the US. He could move to Europe. I'm sure if he was ready to launch a startup he should be able to land a good job there, then get rid of the US passport a few years later.
  - wavefunction 11y ago
    >>claims to be the most advanced and civilized country on this planet? You seem to have fallen for American propaganda harder than any American I've ever met. We are taught in our schools about the evils our government has conducted throughout our history to the indigenous pre-Columbus populations, women, ethnic and sexual minorities. There has never been a period in American history where some evil was not being visited on either our own people by the rich and powerful or our Government, or evil visited on people of other countries. I do think it's a country with a lot of positive qualities and the majority of Americans are decent people but with 300,000,000 people some of them are going to be evil or misguided in their attempts to transform the US and the world in ways they think should happen. The "War on Drugs," which began with alcohol prohibition in the early 1900s and was shifted to other narcotics as time went by is one of those examples. Some Americans think that other Americans should be prevented from taking drugs for a variety of reasons, and so laws attempting to prohibit the trade and usage of narcotics are passed. Civil forfeiture was added as a "tool" to make trade in narcotics more painful as just locking up or fining people was not having the desired effect. Rather than admit that some people will take drugs whether they are legal or not, these people who want no one to take drugs would rather push further and further in their misguided quest.
norea-armozel 11y ago
It's always been a part of the American mindset. Look at how Prohibition began to see the connections between the various religious groups and the current groups calling for stricter drug laws. Such groups just have no concept of the social and biological causes of drug abuse. And they would rather punish society at large for what amounts to an illness. I guess it's easier to be tough on drugs/crime/etc than work towards a real solution.
Dirlewanger 11y ago
Here's some advice: stop reading/believing everything you read on the Internet/see in movies and come over for a visit. Distorting your perceptions with solely sensationalist articles (though not saying this one is)/pop culture only does yourself a disservice.
- leap_ahead 11y ago
  Maybe some day but not today. Today I'm not comfortable with the mere idea. What if some patent troll learns I'm going for a visit to the US? What if they secretly tell the police to arrest me at the airport and then sue me over some dumb patents? What if somebody makes a joke on the Internet and then I'm detained at the airport and interrogated whether I have fought in the Ukraine? What if they learn I have some Muslim friends and decide to question me if I knew of any bombing plans? What if they send me to one of their secret prisons to beat out my consent to spy on my friends? You see my problem?
  - ohitsdom 11y ago
    The US has its problems but I think your perception is greatly exaggerated. Let me tell you how I believe those scenarios would play out- 1. Patent trolls have no political clout. Zero chance of police arresting someone on their behalf (let alone them calling police to request this). Patents are a civil matter, not criminal. 2. I have not heard of the US interrogating any suspected Ukraine-invasion fighters. 3. Muslim friends could bring you more scrutiny. But they'd have to be pretty dirty to warrant that much attention on you. I haven't heard one case of someone being taken to a secret prison just to be convinced to turn spy. If you're taken to a supposed "secret prison", you're probably there to stay.
    - leap_ahead 11y ago
      >> Muslim friends could bring you more scrutiny. But they'd have to be pretty dirty to warrant that much attention on you. I haven't heard one case of someone being taken to a secret prison just to be convinced to turn spy. What about this? http://www.thelocal.se/20120419/40368 http://www.thelocal.se/20120419/40368 >> If you're taken to a supposed "secret prison", you're probably there to stay. Okay, thank you very much, I'm staying home then.
worklogin 11y ago
Likewise, I'd never go to Russia, because unlike in the US, I might get swept up and accused of being a spy, or have my hotel room turned over when they use hidden cameras to determine I'm out of the room. Another example would be to see how long someone could shout obscenities at Putin in front of the Kremlin without getting thrown in the back of a truck. In the US, we have the freedom of press to put out articles like this. I'm sure the everyday life of a Russian isn't totally miserable, and the US has its major issues, but I can't think of a single civil-rights issue where Russia is a leader.
- leap_ahead 11y ago
  >> Another example would be to see how long someone could shout obscenities at Putin in front of the Kremlin without getting thrown in the back of a truck. In the US, we have the freedom of press to put out articles like this. You are correct. US rates better on the freedom of press. The only problem, the articles like this, do they have any power to change things or is it just talk and talk and nothing gets changed? >> I'm sure the everyday life of a Russian isn't totally miserable, and the US has its major issues, but I can't think of a single civil-rights issue where Russia is a leader. We do have free medical service available to everyone and also free higher education. They're not as good as they once were (sometimes terrible) but they are available to everyone. I'd call these basic human rights, access to medical help and access to education.

senorito 11y ago

German citizen here. I wouldn't even consider going on vacation there anymore.

deleted 11y ago
[deleted]

stefantalpalaru 11y ago

> But it's not the same America I've gotten to know from the movies of the 60s-80s. It never was. You just grew up and now you're able to see past the propaganda.

JustSomeNobody 11y ago

The internet happened. We are no less corrupt than we ever were. We are just more obvious about it now because of the internet. People always think, "oh, things were so much better back in the day". In reality, no, they weren't. It was just different. Back in the day, we wouldn't let blacks use the same bathroom or water fountain. Now we steal their money. It is the same America it always was. We just have more people airing our dirty laundry.

bluejellybean 11y ago
This is very true. The propaganda filter is gone now. >Now we steal their money. Subtle comment but it's true. Most white, affluent citizens don't ever run into these types of police state problems. In a sense, we are no different than leap_ahead in that we are finally seeing what the poor black community has had to experience for generations. It's scary for sure but the zeitgeist seems to be shifting. I have high hopes of the future but then again maybe I'm just overly optimistic.
humanrebar 11y ago
> We are no less corrupt than we ever were. I'm not sure. America used to be a lot more diverse in how it was governed. Thought Chicago was too corrupt? Move to California. More and more issues are becoming federal issues (drugs, bridge maintenance, even), so corruption and injustice becomes a universal problem.
astazangasta 11y ago
I think this is true to some extent (corruption of this sort has always existed), but it is getting worse. More inequality, more corrupt legislatures, more transparent moves to aid the powerful. Reagan raised taxes when he had to. His scions stoutly refuse in his name. Nixon created the EPA. It is definitely worse now. The right is more right; the left is more right.

Amezarak 11y ago

These things happen, but they are incredibly unlikely to happen to you. They're trumpeted in the media and discussed on HN because they are so outrageous to our sensibilities, not because they are common, everyday occurrences. They're very rare in a country of 300 million - but still too common on the grounds they should never happen. In reality, you would be much better off and safer visiting the US now than you would have been in the past - especially the 60s and 80s.

marcosdumay 11y ago

Brazilian citizen here. Do you realize that the news report thing out of proportion, right?

leap_ahead 11y ago
Of course. But the thing is, they actually reported what really happened. Conversely, do you realize this sort of things shouldn't be really happening in what claims to be the most advanced and civilized country on this planet? I'm not hearing of this crap happening in central Europe for instance. You can expect these things from some forgotten African country, but not really from one of the so called first-world countries. Really, those government agents should have had access to sufficient information to determine if those 160000 dollars had a legitimate origin and a legitimate objective. Where's the due process please? For many people this sum could represent several years of savings. The government can't just take it for no reason. Perhaps this poor black guy should consider emigration from the US. He could move to Europe. I'm sure if he was ready to launch a startup he should be able to land a good job there, then get rid of the US passport a few years later.
- wavefunction 11y ago
  >>claims to be the most advanced and civilized country on this planet? You seem to have fallen for American propaganda harder than any American I've ever met. We are taught in our schools about the evils our government has conducted throughout our history to the indigenous pre-Columbus populations, women, ethnic and sexual minorities. There has never been a period in American history where some evil was not being visited on either our own people by the rich and powerful or our Government, or evil visited on people of other countries. I do think it's a country with a lot of positive qualities and the majority of Americans are decent people but with 300,000,000 people some of them are going to be evil or misguided in their attempts to transform the US and the world in ways they think should happen. The "War on Drugs," which began with alcohol prohibition in the early 1900s and was shifted to other narcotics as time went by is one of those examples. Some Americans think that other Americans should be prevented from taking drugs for a variety of reasons, and so laws attempting to prohibit the trade and usage of narcotics are passed. Civil forfeiture was added as a "tool" to make trade in narcotics more painful as just locking up or fining people was not having the desired effect. Rather than admit that some people will take drugs whether they are legal or not, these people who want no one to take drugs would rather push further and further in their misguided quest.

norea-armozel 11y ago

It's always been a part of the American mindset. Look at how Prohibition began to see the connections between the various religious groups and the current groups calling for stricter drug laws. Such groups just have no concept of the social and biological causes of drug abuse. And they would rather punish society at large for what amounts to an illness. I guess it's easier to be tough on drugs/crime/etc than work towards a real solution.

Dirlewanger 11y ago

Here's some advice: stop reading/believing everything you read on the Internet/see in movies and come over for a visit. Distorting your perceptions with solely sensationalist articles (though not saying this one is)/pop culture only does yourself a disservice.

leap_ahead 11y ago
Maybe some day but not today. Today I'm not comfortable with the mere idea. What if some patent troll learns I'm going for a visit to the US? What if they secretly tell the police to arrest me at the airport and then sue me over some dumb patents? What if somebody makes a joke on the Internet and then I'm detained at the airport and interrogated whether I have fought in the Ukraine? What if they learn I have some Muslim friends and decide to question me if I knew of any bombing plans? What if they send me to one of their secret prisons to beat out my consent to spy on my friends? You see my problem?
- ohitsdom 11y ago
  The US has its problems but I think your perception is greatly exaggerated. Let me tell you how I believe those scenarios would play out- 1. Patent trolls have no political clout. Zero chance of police arresting someone on their behalf (let alone them calling police to request this). Patents are a civil matter, not criminal. 2. I have not heard of the US interrogating any suspected Ukraine-invasion fighters. 3. Muslim friends could bring you more scrutiny. But they'd have to be pretty dirty to warrant that much attention on you. I haven't heard one case of someone being taken to a secret prison just to be convinced to turn spy. If you're taken to a supposed "secret prison", you're probably there to stay.
  - leap_ahead 11y ago
    >> Muslim friends could bring you more scrutiny. But they'd have to be pretty dirty to warrant that much attention on you. I haven't heard one case of someone being taken to a secret prison just to be convinced to turn spy. What about this? http://www.thelocal.se/20120419/40368 http://www.thelocal.se/20120419/40368 >> If you're taken to a supposed "secret prison", you're probably there to stay. Okay, thank you very much, I'm staying home then.

worklogin 11y ago

Likewise, I'd never go to Russia, because unlike in the US, I might get swept up and accused of being a spy, or have my hotel room turned over when they use hidden cameras to determine I'm out of the room. Another example would be to see how long someone could shout obscenities at Putin in front of the Kremlin without getting thrown in the back of a truck. In the US, we have the freedom of press to put out articles like this. I'm sure the everyday life of a Russian isn't totally miserable, and the US has its major issues, but I can't think of a single civil-rights issue where Russia is a leader.

leap_ahead 11y ago
>> Another example would be to see how long someone could shout obscenities at Putin in front of the Kremlin without getting thrown in the back of a truck. In the US, we have the freedom of press to put out articles like this. You are correct. US rates better on the freedom of press. The only problem, the articles like this, do they have any power to change things or is it just talk and talk and nothing gets changed? >> I'm sure the everyday life of a Russian isn't totally miserable, and the US has its major issues, but I can't think of a single civil-rights issue where Russia is a leader. We do have free medical service available to everyone and also free higher education. They're not as good as they once were (sometimes terrible) but they are available to everyone. I'd call these basic human rights, access to medical help and access to education.