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Judging all of European politics by what's happening in the UK right now is like judging American cuisine by one meal served at McDonalds (which admittedly, a l

Judging all of European politics by what's happening in the UK right now is like judging American cuisine by one meal served at McDonalds (which admittedly, a lot of Europeans tend to do). Nice counter-example: Finland just made broadband internet access into a legal right: http://edition.cnn.com/2009/TECH/10/15/finland.internet.rights/ http://edition.cnn.com/2009/TECH/10/15/finland.internet.righ...

bumblebird 17y ago
I think making net access a human right is ridiculous. What next? Criminals asserting their human legal rights to have 1MB net connection installed in their cells.
- foldr 17y ago
  It's not much different these days than giving them the right to send and receive mail, I don't see why you think it's so silly.
  - bumblebird 17y ago
    Because it negates the whole point you put them in prison. At some point we'll get the human right to "not be in a cell". And then where will we be?
    - foldr 17y ago
      >Because it negates the whole point you put them in prison. So you think that being in prison would be perfectly pleasant just as long as you had a broadband connection? Some life you must lead.
      - bumblebird 17y ago
        It's a really slippery slope. And to be honest, yeah - having a net connection is a pretty big luxury I don't think criminals serving at her Majesties' pleasure should actually be entitled to. Obviously if they're to be rehabilitated, then it would make sense to allow them that, but whilst they're serving time, isn't the whole point to take away the home comforts? There was also some call (Probably from EU) to give criminals in jail the right to a vote. Which I also strongly disagree with. They're in there to separate them from society. And that includes 'online' society IMHO - hence they should not have net connections.
        foldr 17y ago
        >They're in there to separate them from society. And that includes 'online' society IMHO - hence they should not have net connections. And presumably they shouldn't be allowed to send letters or have visitors either right? There's a "slippery slope" in both directions.
        bumblebird 17y ago
        It's only feasible to send letters to individuals. Not society. Same with visitors. The two don't really compare.
        foldr 17y ago
        What?
        noste 17y ago
        >There was also some call (Probably from EU) to give criminals in jail the right to a vote. Which I also strongly disagree with. Going by the stats at http://felonvoting.procon.org/viewresource.asp?resourceID=289 http://felonvoting.procon.org/viewresource.asp?resourceID=28... felony disenfranchisement is not that popular in western democracies.
        bumblebird 17y ago
        I guess thats relevant if you believe things like this should be decided by the majority.
        pbhjpbhj 17y ago
        What sort of non-democratic regime were you thinking of that would give criminals a vote but would not follow the populous' voting decisions?
        bumblebird 17y ago
      - pbhjpbhj 17y ago
        So you think that being in prison would be perfectly pleasant just as long as you had a broadband connection? Some life you must lead. As an office worker I went between an office of about 4 metres square (16m^2)shared by 2 staff and my house, which when I started was about double that size (including all rooms) and shared with my wife. I was let out my office for lunch but no recreation time. Now I had significant freedom to go out and about, visit friends and what have you, but, yeah life can be hard. Broadband should be a right as more government services are becoming accessible only online - my Mum volunteers in many capacities in a rural community where access to services for the elderly is becoming hard because internet (web) access is assumed. If my web access is removed it makes it harder for me to be a citizen (subject really but hey); harder for me to be a consumer, harder for me to be an active part of the workforce.
- rms 17y ago
  That sounds like a good idea. Though 768k is probably fine.

bumblebird 17y ago

I think making net access a human right is ridiculous. What next? Criminals asserting their human legal rights to have 1MB net connection installed in their cells.

foldr 17y ago
It's not much different these days than giving them the right to send and receive mail, I don't see why you think it's so silly.
- bumblebird 17y ago
  Because it negates the whole point you put them in prison. At some point we'll get the human right to "not be in a cell". And then where will we be?
  - foldr 17y ago
    >Because it negates the whole point you put them in prison. So you think that being in prison would be perfectly pleasant just as long as you had a broadband connection? Some life you must lead.
    - bumblebird 17y ago
      It's a really slippery slope. And to be honest, yeah - having a net connection is a pretty big luxury I don't think criminals serving at her Majesties' pleasure should actually be entitled to. Obviously if they're to be rehabilitated, then it would make sense to allow them that, but whilst they're serving time, isn't the whole point to take away the home comforts? There was also some call (Probably from EU) to give criminals in jail the right to a vote. Which I also strongly disagree with. They're in there to separate them from society. And that includes 'online' society IMHO - hence they should not have net connections.
      - foldr 17y ago
        >They're in there to separate them from society. And that includes 'online' society IMHO - hence they should not have net connections. And presumably they shouldn't be allowed to send letters or have visitors either right? There's a "slippery slope" in both directions.
        bumblebird 17y ago
        It's only feasible to send letters to individuals. Not society. Same with visitors. The two don't really compare.
        foldr 17y ago
        What?
      - noste 17y ago
        >There was also some call (Probably from EU) to give criminals in jail the right to a vote. Which I also strongly disagree with. Going by the stats at http://felonvoting.procon.org/viewresource.asp?resourceID=289 http://felonvoting.procon.org/viewresource.asp?resourceID=28... felony disenfranchisement is not that popular in western democracies.
        bumblebird 17y ago
        I guess thats relevant if you believe things like this should be decided by the majority.
        pbhjpbhj 17y ago
        What sort of non-democratic regime were you thinking of that would give criminals a vote but would not follow the populous' voting decisions?
        bumblebird 17y ago
    - pbhjpbhj 17y ago
      So you think that being in prison would be perfectly pleasant just as long as you had a broadband connection? Some life you must lead. As an office worker I went between an office of about 4 metres square (16m^2)shared by 2 staff and my house, which when I started was about double that size (including all rooms) and shared with my wife. I was let out my office for lunch but no recreation time. Now I had significant freedom to go out and about, visit friends and what have you, but, yeah life can be hard. Broadband should be a right as more government services are becoming accessible only online - my Mum volunteers in many capacities in a rural community where access to services for the elderly is becoming hard because internet (web) access is assumed. If my web access is removed it makes it harder for me to be a citizen (subject really but hey); harder for me to be a consumer, harder for me to be an active part of the workforce.
rms 17y ago
That sounds like a good idea. Though 768k is probably fine.