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Every single time rent in NYC or San Francisco is brought up, everyone makes comments like "I only pay $500 a month for my ten-bedroom house in Kansas!" And the

Every single time rent in NYC or San Francisco is brought up, everyone makes comments like "I only pay $500 a month for my ten-bedroom house in Kansas!" And the reason that rent in NYC is higher than rent in Kansas or Pittsburgh, etc. is simply because more people want to live there. It's simple supply and demand.

LordKano 11y ago
It's more than simple supply and demand. It's artificially low supply and increased demand. Sweetheart deals for luxury housing and rent controlled housing mean that developers are going to put more time, energy and money into bringing upper income housing into NYC while the middle and lower income people are left with fewer options. Because of the geography and municipal structure of the area, middle and upper-middle income housing is doing quite well here.
- sukilot 11y ago
  NYC has the highest pop density of just about any city in the world. It has extremely high demand, due to its celebrity status making it a magnet for the whole world.
  - LordKano 11y ago
    That high demand coupled with artificially low supply has led to exorbitant pricing in the NYC housing market. Just because we can explain why it happens doesn't make those prices any less exorbitant. Pricing is exorbitant in other facets of life in NYC as well but that is a separate discussion.
rtpg 11y ago
well it's restricted supply, especially in SF. If more high-rise apartments were built in downtown SF (and there's demand, but just too much pushback from local officials), this debate would probably not be happening at all. It's not like SF is crowded, it's just that we've built really bad buildings for holding a lot of people.
- seanmcdirmid 11y ago
  I don't know. In every built up city I've been to, I live in one now (on the 16th floor of a 30 story apartment)...with high density, the prices just seem to go up and up with the high rises. Can you point out a city that built up and is affordable (with a good economy also)?
  - ild 11y ago
    Chicago. Still affordable outside of the most popular areas.
  - rtpg 11y ago
    Tokyo is pretty reasonable. A 1-person apartment is under $1k/month no matter where in the city you are, you can get something student-sized for $600 a month. Not $3k/month for sure. From personal experience, at least, supply is _not_ an issue in Tokyo. You can go to a real estate agent and go see like 4 or 5 places in a day and take it almost immediately. This is compared to (second hand stories) of apartments in Paris where you have 10 people show up to look at 1 apartment and it's a crapshoot whether you can get it.
  - akgerber 11y ago
    Chicago. Here is a random 10-year old condo for $255k: http://www.trulia.com/property/3201711637-222-N-Columbus-Dr-2804-Chicago-IL-60601#photo-12 http://www.trulia.com/property/3201711637-222-N-Columbus-Dr-... Here is an older, further-out one for less than half that: http://www.trulia.com/property/3193730688-3950-N-Lake-Shore-Dr-1322-Chicago-IL-60613 http://www.trulia.com/property/3193730688-3950-N-Lake-Shore-... (still in a decent neighborhood and near a 24-hour rapid transit line) Here is a large 3-bedroom for $485,000: http://www.trulia.com/property/3197384352-212-W-Washington-St-2004-Chicago-IL-60606 http://www.trulia.com/property/3197384352-212-W-Washington-S... Here is a large 3-bedroom, futher out, for $450k in a newly-built brick walkup: http://www.trulia.com/property/3027918821-2550-W-Logan-Blvd-2F-Chicago-IL-60647#photo-6 http://www.trulia.com/property/3027918821-2550-W-Logan-Blvd-... There are a lot of variations on similar themes. Chicago's economy isn't San Francisco's, or New York's, and it doesn't have many exciting software jobs or world-class outdoor recreation. But it is still a big city with big-city opportunities and many well-paying jobs. And it clearly demonstrates that a sufficient housing stock guarantees no building type, even skyscrapers, are inherently tied to high prices. Just as San Francisco's predicament demonstrates that keeping old buildings in place doesn't hold down prices.

LordKano 11y ago

It's more than simple supply and demand. It's artificially low supply and increased demand. Sweetheart deals for luxury housing and rent controlled housing mean that developers are going to put more time, energy and money into bringing upper income housing into NYC while the middle and lower income people are left with fewer options. Because of the geography and municipal structure of the area, middle and upper-middle income housing is doing quite well here.

sukilot 11y ago
NYC has the highest pop density of just about any city in the world. It has extremely high demand, due to its celebrity status making it a magnet for the whole world.
- LordKano 11y ago
  That high demand coupled with artificially low supply has led to exorbitant pricing in the NYC housing market. Just because we can explain why it happens doesn't make those prices any less exorbitant. Pricing is exorbitant in other facets of life in NYC as well but that is a separate discussion.

rtpg 11y ago

well it's restricted supply, especially in SF. If more high-rise apartments were built in downtown SF (and there's demand, but just too much pushback from local officials), this debate would probably not be happening at all. It's not like SF is crowded, it's just that we've built really bad buildings for holding a lot of people.

seanmcdirmid 11y ago
I don't know. In every built up city I've been to, I live in one now (on the 16th floor of a 30 story apartment)...with high density, the prices just seem to go up and up with the high rises. Can you point out a city that built up and is affordable (with a good economy also)?
- ild 11y ago
  Chicago. Still affordable outside of the most popular areas.
- rtpg 11y ago
  Tokyo is pretty reasonable. A 1-person apartment is under $1k/month no matter where in the city you are, you can get something student-sized for $600 a month. Not $3k/month for sure. From personal experience, at least, supply is _not_ an issue in Tokyo. You can go to a real estate agent and go see like 4 or 5 places in a day and take it almost immediately. This is compared to (second hand stories) of apartments in Paris where you have 10 people show up to look at 1 apartment and it's a crapshoot whether you can get it.
- akgerber 11y ago
  Chicago. Here is a random 10-year old condo for $255k: http://www.trulia.com/property/3201711637-222-N-Columbus-Dr-2804-Chicago-IL-60601#photo-12 http://www.trulia.com/property/3201711637-222-N-Columbus-Dr-... Here is an older, further-out one for less than half that: http://www.trulia.com/property/3193730688-3950-N-Lake-Shore-Dr-1322-Chicago-IL-60613 http://www.trulia.com/property/3193730688-3950-N-Lake-Shore-... (still in a decent neighborhood and near a 24-hour rapid transit line) Here is a large 3-bedroom for $485,000: http://www.trulia.com/property/3197384352-212-W-Washington-St-2004-Chicago-IL-60606 http://www.trulia.com/property/3197384352-212-W-Washington-S... Here is a large 3-bedroom, futher out, for $450k in a newly-built brick walkup: http://www.trulia.com/property/3027918821-2550-W-Logan-Blvd-2F-Chicago-IL-60647#photo-6 http://www.trulia.com/property/3027918821-2550-W-Logan-Blvd-... There are a lot of variations on similar themes. Chicago's economy isn't San Francisco's, or New York's, and it doesn't have many exciting software jobs or world-class outdoor recreation. But it is still a big city with big-city opportunities and many well-paying jobs. And it clearly demonstrates that a sufficient housing stock guarantees no building type, even skyscrapers, are inherently tied to high prices. Just as San Francisco's predicament demonstrates that keeping old buildings in place doesn't hold down prices.