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This is really, really cool. That said, flying objects are inherently dangerous. I was at a bike race and a guy was following the pack with a DJI drone. One mo
by bglazer 11y ago
This is really, really cool.
That said, flying objects are inherently dangerous. I was at a bike race and a guy was following the pack with a DJI drone. One motor suddenly failed and the thing plummeted to the ground from 40ft and broke into a bunch of pieces. Luckily, it didn't hit anyone but it would have been a major incident if it had.
There's a lot of excitement about the cool, flashy features of these drones (following, waterproof, nice camera) but no assurance that it won't suddenly break and kill someone.
I want 99.9999% reliability and strong safety guarantees as a feature.
- themodelplumber 11y agoAgreed. I'd be satisfied with nothing less than a mid-air explosion into fine particulate matter upon engine failure. wipes drone gook off face
- rubicon33 11y agoThis is a big, big worry of mine. I'm considering doing commercial work with drones, and the major thing holding me back is the risk of injuring others with these things. The DJI Phantom, and Inspire, could kill someone if they fell from high enough. And I can tell you from personal experience, the software is simply not even CLOSE to bug-free enough for me to be worry free. The more I think about it, the more I think, the risk of flying these things in populated places just isn't worth it.
- themodelplumber 11y agoSeems like a good place to put Extreme Drone Crashes - Compilation 2015 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=P9rnTk6FBzs https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=P9rnTk6FBzs hehe
- nailer 11y agoReddit's defaults, for some reason, includes 'wtf' which frequently has gore pictures. One of which was someone whose face encountered a drone.
- nine_k 11y agoI wonder if a heavier-than-air airship design would be safer. A balloon with helium or even hydrogen would let such a device fall slowly with engines off, and motors would let it fly up and maneuver around swiftly enough.
- sean-duffy 11y agoSafer maybe, but nowhere near as swift and agile as a multirotor, and much more susceptible to wind.
- nine_k 11y agoWhy, it can still be multi-rotor, and even capable of bigger payload with the same battery. The air drag from the balloon will be an issue. OTOH the motors could be run at low power when cruising and at high power when speedy maneuvers are required. The size will definitely be bigger. But if we talk about professional-grade drones (for video reporting, etc), they are large and expensive as they are. Improved safety and thus easier time getting allowed in to a worthy event might be more important than a lean package.
- vollmond 11y agoCould the airship configuration be a recovery mechanism? IE, instead of having a parachute or airbag to soften the landing, have compressed helium release into an airship and then continue powered flight with whichever motors remain?
- 0xdeadbeefbabe 11y agoWhen I did RC planes, not even automated drones, the common repeated expression was, "spectators are almost always a bad idea." Edit: which makes for a lonely hobby.
- nine_k 11y agoI want 99.9999% reliability and strong safety guarantees as a feature of cars, bikes, and can openers, too. Unfortunately, currently we probably make do with a few less nines on all these items.
- reverend_gonzo 11y agoCars and bikes are directly controlled by humans, and in the case of an emergency, then can perform necessary maneuvers to reduce the damages. Not saying that always happens, but for the most part it does. A drone that loses an engine falls out of the sky and lands on top of anything that is below it, and as of right now, there are no evasive maneuvers that can be executed. Especially for drones that are being used to record large public gatherings, things like multiple engines or parachutes should be absolutely mandatory, at least by the organizers of the event. Needless to say, I'd bet it'll take one or two insurance claims until they are.
- nine_k 11y agoFair enough! I even suppose that parachutes or stability with 1-2 engines lost might not be "mandatory". The cost of insurance of unequipped craft flying on a major event would be so high that nobody would even try that.
- dpark 11y agoThe front fork on your bike is almost certainly not six-nines reliable. If it breaks, you're not doing any evasive maneuvers. Ditto for car electronics. I'd wager that cars fail at a rate higher than 1:million, potentially leaving the driver effectively with no control (literally no control if drive-by-wire, no effective control for many people if power steering and breaking cut out).
- pak 11y agoWell, also look closely at the most common failure modes for a front fork: (1) the handle bars wiggle out of alignment, which still allows you to brake and stop safely; (2) the axle nuts are loose, in which case you probably won't even notice unless you hit a bump, as the dropouts for removing the front wheel point toward the ground; (3) the steering locks in a particular direction, in which case you still can brake safely and stop. Catastrophic failure of the welds or metal itself is extremely rare, without some advance warning like wobbling or creaking. To my knowledge, no commonly sold cars are exclusively drive-by-wire for the braking system. If you lose all control in a car, you can turn off the ignition and forceful application of the brakes allows you to stop, even if you lose the power assistance. By contrast, the most common failure mode for a drone in the air is... it falls out of the sky. That's pretty much the long and the short of it. There is good reason that flying objects should be held to a higher standard of safety.
- stinos 11y agoOne motor suddenly failed Maybe drones need to start to incorporate parachutes to slow down the fall in case of problems like these, or maybe even airbags to ease the crash. Not that it would make it 99.9999% reliable, but it should be better than nothing. And also won't completely thrash your drone when it crashes. edit seems nine_k already commented with a similar idea
- sean-duffy 11y agoDrones of this size are cheap enough that the extra weight and cost of engineering of safety devices generally isn't worth it. It's easier to fix or replace parts.
- krschultz 11y agoAre you factoring in your personal liability for killing someone in that equation? The comment that mentioned parachutes was talking about how a drone crashed at an event and almost injured people. My personal homeowners liability policy covers things like hitting someone with a shopping cart in the grocery store and hurting them, it probably would also cover a drone, but if you don't have insurance it could expensive real quick.
- sean-duffy 11y agoNotice I said "drones of this size". While the propellers could still cause some damage, these kind of things aren't going to kill anybody, so let's not be overdramatic. As for potential dangers to other people, the solution to that is not a technical one, it is simply to not fly over or near to people. Just like we don't drive our cars on the sidewalk.
- ssmoot 11y agoYou don't think a device that weighs over 2lbs falling from 40' could kill someone? And that seems like it's being pretty generous. In most "quadcopter crash" videos I've seen on YouTube the drone was much higher. Sometimes even hundreds of meters.
- gnopgnip 11y agoCouldn't the same be said for any technological advance. Waiting until anything is perfect is waiting too long.
- bglazer 11y agoI agree. I just think reliability/safety should be the next areas of focus for multi-rotor manufacturers.
- outworlder 11y agoUse drones with more than 4 rotors.
- lsaferite 11y agoExactly. If you are flying over people AT ALL you should be using an octocopter at least.
- outworlder 11y agoWhat about an hexacopter with opposing rotors (Y configuration)?
- lsaferite 11y agoIt provides some redundancy, but 8 motors is better in that area IMHO.
- flowless 11y agoY6 is barely controllable if one of the rotor fails but still able to land without much hassle. Hexa in normal configuration handles motor failure better. If you want real redundancy go for X8 or normal octo - 16 rotor copters would be even better but these are pretty rare.
- dharma1 11y agoit can still drop from the sky, you are just getting a bit more redundancy on motors/props but doesn't help if they all stop due to something else
- lsaferite 11y agoYes, a critical failure of the flight controller or power system can still cause it to fall from the sky. I've never had that happen personally and I've logged a lot of hours on custom built quads. If you are using alpha/beta FC firmware or your settings are still being tweaked you shouldn't anywhere near people anyway. I've lost engines that resulted in nasty crashes. As I fly quads almost exclusively they are always nasty. As such, I never fly over or near people (other than myself). I've read of full power loss, but never personally experienced it. In any case I think I'd be more afraid of bad FC firmware that resulted in a fly-away event. Those are super dangerous as the machine just takes off into the air and away from you. That has the potential to be MUCH worse as the altitude they eventually fall from is significant. If you've never seen a full-power ascent of a multicopter then you're in for a surprise at the speed at which they can disappear while going straight up.
- danmaz74 11y agoNot to mention what will happen when I have drone, you have a drone, and our roads cross...
- jakejake 11y agoI was walking down Hollywood Blvd one day when they suddenly shut the street down for about 5 minutes to do a fly-by RC helicopter shot. This was a few years before lightweight drones and cameras were on the market and this helicopter reminded me of a flying lawnmower! As it whizzed by me and thousands of other people, I was pretty sure it could easily have taken off a limb. I have a fairly cheap drone with a built-in camera and, no doubt, it could cause a scratch or bruise if it hit you at full speed, but luckily it's nothing like they used to be.
- relet 11y agoThat is until your cheap drone hits a paraglider, or other light vehicle that is actually allowed to operate in this air space. In most legislations I am aware of, RC flight requires an operator to be in control of the drone.
- dzhiurgis 11y agoI would love Mythbusters to throw the biggest drone you can get into a jet engine. Pretty sure nothing, but some good entertainment would happen.
- gridspy 11y agoI'm fairly confident it would destroy the jet engine. The shrapnel from the drone is likely to blow the very tight tolerances between the compressor blades and the body of the jet engine, causing jams.
- DonHopkins 11y agoHyperBlimps are a lot safer, silent and mellower photography platforms than drones. Not quite as portable, and you need a tank of helium, of course. But equipped with solar panels they can stay up indefinitely, and built with transparent plastic they can be almost invisible in the sky. http://hyperblimp.com/ http://hyperblimp.com/ https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xqJYhTvBSu8 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xqJYhTvBSu8 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5K7edXU401o https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5K7edXU401o
- dharma1 11y agoHow do they handle wind?
- DonHopkins 11y agoFrom the FAQ: http://hyperblimp.com/#faq http://hyperblimp.com/#faq >HOW DO THESE AIRSHIPS HANDLE IN WINDS? >Hyperblimps, like traditional planes, can handle winds according to the speed of the ship. Our top speed as of July 10, 2010, is 40 mph, enabling a skilled operator to fly in winds of about 15 mph. We hope to be surpassing that speed soon. As for crosswinds, the ship is simply “crabbed,” just as a traditional plane is.
- techaddict009 11y agoI was flying drone in my street in India and it got stuck in electric cables (we have cables on poles). I just got nervous and called few people and cracked down the drone. Then decided never play with them in domestic living area.
- windexh8er 11y agoAs someone who has flown RC drones and heli for the better part of 5+ years now I generally find that there are 3 camps: 1) people who have never flown and assume the worst and often want unrealistic "guarantees" (see above), 2) those who fly, fly often and fly as safe as can be "guaranteed", 3) those who fly in an unsafe manner due to inexperience or just general carelessness. I've always tried to fly responsibly at all times. I am cognizant of weather, people/pets, surroundings and right-of-way in the sky. Nothing in life is guaranteed 99.9999% of the time. Is it OK for me to levy a 99.9999% guarantee on you, that you drive perfect and responsible (no radio, no food, no phone, no talking, no distractions - period)? No. That's not life in general - we don't live in a bubble. Well at least the general population doesn't. I am fine with sane safety measures put forth... Certifications, registrations, etc. But this is a hobby like many others. People own many kinds of recreational hobby gear that can endanger the operator or surrounding people - yet, they're accepted because people think they understand them. Most don't, however, understand simple engine operation - yet drive cars. All mechanical vehicles have the guarantee to fail at some point or another and, yes, someone is 100% guaranteed to get hurt at some point in time. But, please don't ruin my hobby because you choose not to understand it.
- bglazer 11y agoI fall into camp 3. I have a DJI Phantom that I crashed into my neighbor's yard due to my own incompetence and inexperience. I'm not arguing for draconian policy measures. I just want manufacturers to focus on and market reliability and safety features. It's a win-win for users and manufacturers. Manufacturers are clearly aiming for these drones to be everywhere and for everyone to own one. With many, many people flying for the first time everyday there are going to be accidents. If manufacturers can reduce the harm caused by these accidents then they'll have a much easier path for FAA regulations and public acceptance. For users, they get the ease of mind that crashes won't be catastrophic for their drone and a reduced chance that they'll inadvertently hurt someone.
- lsaferite 11y agoIs the 'hands-off' recovery not good on the DJI platform? I've always used OpenPilot FCs so have no idea how well the DJI FC works, but the OP hardware will fully recover from stupidity if you let go of the controls (while not in acro mode).
- zaroth 11y agoDriving my car to work seems inherently much more dangerous than operating this drone, and we've found reasonable ways to insure against those accidents. Life is inherently dangerous, and almost every technical innovation is first met with objections with how it will cause loss of life. The danger of accidental personal injury from drone is probably an order of magnitude lower than the danger of accidental personal injury from discarded banana peels. > I want 99.9999% reliability and strong safety guarantees as a feature. Then you want the technology not to exist, which I think is a terrible shame. It's like crying "fire hazard" around a Tesla. If you want a hobby device to rant against, try scooters, those things are much more deadly and rightly deserve to be taxed and regulated. [1] The Lily drone if it actually performs anything like that video, is pure awesome, and absolutely the future. If it can be made quiet enough and compact enough it replaces everything from the cinematographer at your wedding, to the selfie. It also probably looks good in black with a nice white pin-stripe, with the letters N-Y-P-D, floating around Times Square, and running no-knock warrants. 10 - 15 generations along actually, this thing is quite terrifying, for completely different reasons than 'OMG it will fall on me'. [1] - http://www.nationaljournal.com/health-care/the-most-dangerous-toys-in-america-20141202 http://www.nationaljournal.com/health-care/the-most-dangerou...
- electic 11y agoCan't really find this on the site but does it have any sort of collision avoidance? What if I am running on a sidewalk and it runs into a tree branch above?
- throwawaymsft 11y ago> I want 99.9999% reliability and strong safety guarantees as a feature. I take it you don't drive, or allow yourself to be driven, right?
- emiliobumachar 11y agoIf the whole drone fleet can be made safer than the percentage of cars that drones replace (e.g. by making deliveries), than a case can be made for drones on safety grounds alone, giving zero weight to convenience and economics.
- deleted 11y ago[deleted]
- guelo 11y agoWhy don't these things carry automatic emergency parachutes?
- zo1 11y agoOptional add-on: http://www.dji.com/product/dropsafe http://www.dji.com/product/dropsafe
- kenrikm 11y agoCars kill 40k people per year in the US. Lets not forget "drones" have been around for 50+ years they were previously called "RC Helicopters" and "RC Airplanes" and have a pretty darn good safety record.
- andyl 11y ago"I want 99.9999% reliability and strong safety guarantees" 99.9999% Things are amazing, and nobody's happy. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uEY58fiSK8E https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uEY58fiSK8E
- atmosx 11y agoNobody is happy because these things mean nothing, honestly. Who cares about the credit card(s)? There are people starving to death on the one side of the planet while there are others who don't know what to do with their money on the other. I'm not saying everyone should be driving Ferrari's but in 2015 there shouldn't be people without shelter, food or basic medical safety lying around. If we as a society solve THIS problem then, everybody will much more happy than it is today.
- imakesnowflakes 11y agoI wonder if it could it be possible to have a canister of compressed hydrogen that will inflate a balloon large enough to slow down the fall, if the acceleration goes beyond a certain threshold, like .5g or something?
- dheera 11y agoI'd agree with you in that drones are pretty dangerous in cities. But for the case of filming extreme sports, like bike races or skiing, the sport is likely inherently MUCH more dangerous than whatever could happen because of the drone, especially if the drone isn't directly above the athletes. Your bike/skiis/etc. aren't anywhere close to 99.9999% safe.
- branchan 11y agoThat is pretty unreasonable. Are 2-ton trucks and cars dangerous on the open road? Are they 99.9999% reliable?