5 ms·

Why does amazon use a module,instead of certifying their own ? this hopes to be a large volume project , so the savings could be considerate.

by minthd 11y ago

jon-wood 11y ago
The article is estimating the price of one of these things as being $5 - I imagine that at least for an initial trial Amazon have decided they can make a decent return on them at that cost without certifying their own components.
- BillinghamJ 11y ago
  Also a key factor may have been the time required to get their own stuff certified vs using off the shelf stuff.
  - joezydeco 11y ago
    A lot of people prototyping in the IoT space are using the precertified modules. There's not much more to it: the transmitter is already soldered to a small piece of PCB but has the antenna and necessary tuned discretes on there and ready to go. Doesn't add much to the cost: like BillinghamJ says it's the certification time and cost that's not really worth the trouble if you can just amortize it into the cost of the module.
    - minthd 11y ago
      The cost comes from adding another company to the process - the module maker. But sure, at this stage it might not be worth it , maybe later.
      - joezydeco 11y ago
        Hardly a concern anymore. These are just line items on a bill of materials now: http://www.digikey.com/product-detail/en/450-0103C/450-0103C-ND/4331947 http://www.digikey.com/product-detail/en/450-0103C/450-0103C...
        minthd 11y ago
        $7.8 is pretty expensive when you can get a bluetooth mcu(in volume, from dialog i think) for $1.
        joezydeco 11y ago
        Like we said earlier, you can choose between a raw chip (like the Dialog) and handle the antenna design and all the various governmental certifications and testing yourself ($$$)..or you can buy a precertified module that drops in and you're ready to go. It depends what you can afford and what each path will save you in the long run.
cushychicken 11y ago
To me, the choice to use off the shelf hardware reflects Amazon's dedication to lean values. In this sense, they're doing the absolute minimum (using off-the-shelf hardware instead of spending 2 years spinning their own SoC) to verify that their product (on-demand household commodity ordering) is actually something people want. Makes a lot more sense in terms of turnaround time and money - if the idea proves valuable, they can start expending the effort to reduce costs through SoC development. As the top commenter pointed out, though, I don't think they would really need to spend the time recouping those margins - since all the brands signed up for this service are big-name brands owned by Proctor and Gamble, it could indicate a relationship wherein P&G helps them absorb some of the costs of the hardware in exchange for what is effectively marketing.
- joezydeco 11y ago
  What's also interesting is that the circuit board left on the micro-SMA connector for an external antenna. The early press releases mention deeper hardware integration with consumer products. I'm guessing they're going to be dropping this board into other things besides the Dash product.
  - cushychicken 11y ago
    That's actually an RF testpoint, not an SMA connector (by which I think you mean UF.L connector, like this guy: http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/c/ca/U.FL_connector.jpg http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/c/ca/U.FL_conn...). It functions like a switch that is closed when the RF tester connects to it.
    - joezydeco 11y ago
      If you were to hook one of these up to the connector: https://www.sparkfun.com/products/11320 https://www.sparkfun.com/products/11320 Would it not function as an external wifi antenna? (and yeah you're right about the ufl. thanks for the correction)
      - 11y ago

Why does amazon use a module,instead of certifying their own ? this hopes to be a large volume project , so the savings could be considerate.

by minthd 11y ago

Why does amazon use a module,instead of certifying their own ? this hopes to be a large volume project , so the savings could be considerate.

jon-wood 11y ago

The article is estimating the price of one of these things as being $5 - I imagine that at least for an initial trial Amazon have decided they can make a decent return on them at that cost without certifying their own components.

BillinghamJ 11y ago
Also a key factor may have been the time required to get their own stuff certified vs using off the shelf stuff.
- joezydeco 11y ago
  A lot of people prototyping in the IoT space are using the precertified modules. There's not much more to it: the transmitter is already soldered to a small piece of PCB but has the antenna and necessary tuned discretes on there and ready to go. Doesn't add much to the cost: like BillinghamJ says it's the certification time and cost that's not really worth the trouble if you can just amortize it into the cost of the module.
  - minthd 11y ago
    The cost comes from adding another company to the process - the module maker. But sure, at this stage it might not be worth it , maybe later.
    - joezydeco 11y ago
      Hardly a concern anymore. These are just line items on a bill of materials now: http://www.digikey.com/product-detail/en/450-0103C/450-0103C-ND/4331947 http://www.digikey.com/product-detail/en/450-0103C/450-0103C...
      - minthd 11y ago
        $7.8 is pretty expensive when you can get a bluetooth mcu(in volume, from dialog i think) for $1.
        joezydeco 11y ago
        Like we said earlier, you can choose between a raw chip (like the Dialog) and handle the antenna design and all the various governmental certifications and testing yourself ($$$)..or you can buy a precertified module that drops in and you're ready to go. It depends what you can afford and what each path will save you in the long run.

cushychicken 11y ago

To me, the choice to use off the shelf hardware reflects Amazon's dedication to lean values. In this sense, they're doing the absolute minimum (using off-the-shelf hardware instead of spending 2 years spinning their own SoC) to verify that their product (on-demand household commodity ordering) is actually something people want. Makes a lot more sense in terms of turnaround time and money - if the idea proves valuable, they can start expending the effort to reduce costs through SoC development. As the top commenter pointed out, though, I don't think they would really need to spend the time recouping those margins - since all the brands signed up for this service are big-name brands owned by Proctor and Gamble, it could indicate a relationship wherein P&G helps them absorb some of the costs of the hardware in exchange for what is effectively marketing.

joezydeco 11y ago
What's also interesting is that the circuit board left on the micro-SMA connector for an external antenna. The early press releases mention deeper hardware integration with consumer products. I'm guessing they're going to be dropping this board into other things besides the Dash product.
- cushychicken 11y ago
  That's actually an RF testpoint, not an SMA connector (by which I think you mean UF.L connector, like this guy: http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/c/ca/U.FL_connector.jpg http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/c/ca/U.FL_conn...). It functions like a switch that is closed when the RF tester connects to it.
  - joezydeco 11y ago
    If you were to hook one of these up to the connector: https://www.sparkfun.com/products/11320 https://www.sparkfun.com/products/11320 Would it not function as an external wifi antenna? (and yeah you're right about the ufl. thanks for the correction)
    - 11y ago