8 ms·

More Lenovo woes: security flaws, website clerical errors, maybe layoffs

56 points by ulrikrasmussen 11y ago

pjmlp 11y ago
I miss the old IBM Thinkpad quality....
- tenfingers 11y ago
  How does the current Lenovo Thinkpad line fares? I've seen a couple of devices recently and they look solidly built with above-average quality overall. But I didn't own any recently (my last Thinkpad was from IBM), so I cannot comment about details.
  - pjmlp 11y ago
    The plastic has a lower quality feel to it compared with the old IBMs. For example, in some areas close to the keyboard you can make it bend by applying a little pressure. On the T440p you can somehow notice the screen matrix.
    - cannam 11y ago
      To be fair, none of the recent models has been as bendy as the T4x series, which I think was the last set of T-series actually built by IBM before the acquisition. (I still have a T40p, kept running with parts from three different machines -- a wonderful machine to use, one of the very best, but that chassis was a bit of a disaster.)
    - duncan_bayne 11y ago
      Not just bend. My 530 cracked a couple of months out of warranty, and Lenovo flat-out refused to repair it although they're obliged to do so under Australian Consumer Law. Writing a complaint to CAV is on my TODO list. https://forums.lenovo.com/t5/General-Discussion/Cracked-palm-rest-on-Lenovo-L530/td-p/1922072 https://forums.lenovo.com/t5/General-Discussion/Cracked-palm...
      - userbinator 11y ago
        How did you crack it? I have an X60 where some of the plastics on the case side (near the ports) have cracked off at some point in the past but that was because of some rather extensive... use, it doesn't really affect anything.
        duncan_bayne 11y ago
        The palm rests cracked from, as far as I can tell, normal wear and tear. Certainly nothing more than I subjected my old L520 to, and that never cracked.
    - Daishiman 11y ago
      I disagree that the flexing is an issue. According to several computer techs the flexing is good, since it means the material is less likely to crack under stress. I certainly feel the Thinkpads of yore had a more visually attractive material, but I've recently bought a Thinkpad x250 and frankly the quality is as good as always. Better, in fact, than the x240, in which several very bad decisions were taken.
      - asillystory 11y ago
        How do you like the chiclet keyboard? I'm still holding onto my x220 for dear life.
        mfjordvald 11y ago
        The keyboard is fine. The problem is the single sheet trackpad. Half the time I right click it registers as a left click instead. I noticed they changed it back to the old style in the new T450 version so I'm pretty pissed I bought a T440s now. Something this expensive should not piss me off on a daily basis.
        Daishiman 11y ago
        Surprisingly, I'm not hating it. Considering that the x250 is pretty small, they have less displacement than other keyboards (coming from a T410), but it's full size, the grip is good, and the feedback is better than prior versions. The Trackpoint is laid deeper and lower than the T series, but I adjusted in the day. The click buttons don't protrude as much as older versions and I still haven't adjusted. There are minor changes in keyboard coming from the T series. Insert has been bound to Fn + End (which is alright; I've never really used it), and the upper row is now Home/End/Delete. It's a different layout but I can't say it's worse. The light from above has been changed to an illuminated keyboard, which I find just as good and pretty spiffy. The new trackpad feels, to me, perfectly sized very usable, and a decent replacement for the trackpoint if you're just browsing the web and not typing. I bought a refurbished machine that has the HD IPS touchscreen, and it's been nice. It responds very well to touch and is much brighter than I would ever need. Certainly the touch functionality is not something you use every day, but for some occasions it's useful, and I'm already looking at some alternative skins in some DJing software to work from there in some situations and replace an external controller with just an additional sound card. As a person that's been lugging around a T series on his backpack practically every day for the past 10 years, the lighter weight is a very welcome addition, the processor performance is satisfying, and the screen very readable despite the compromise in space. I'm really enjoying the lower weight and I personally think it's a gorgeous machine. I think there's less visible external parts and reminds me more of the first Thinkpads, with a very minimalist blocky feel. My only critiques are that I wish it had an additional USB port (it has 2; 3 would be really nice), that the trackpoint were laid a couple millimeters higher (I know it's impossible because there's barely any room for the screen, but a man can dream), that modern software was better with HiDPI displays, and that the aspect ratio were taller, but the tradeoffs are easily justify the lighter weight, extra comfort, and screen quality, without sacrificing the input methods, which are the real reason why I buy and have used Thinkpads for the past 18 years. I'm a strong believer that Thinkpad + Trackpoint + Vim is the most productive input method for coding man has ever invented, and no trackpad will ever be a satisfactory replacement.
    - EricSu 11y ago
      A couple times carrying the W530 around in my backpack I've noticed that the corner of the keyboard will pop out of the casing and I'll have to shove it back in.
  - rayiner 11y ago
    Hit and miss. The #1 problem with PC manufacturers is that each iteration of the product will regress something major. The touchpad on my T430 is shitty, but at least it doesn't randomly lose input, unlike the one in my T450s. The FHD IPS screen on the latter machine might have been acceptable in 2011. The keyboard keys on the latter machine also have a cheaper feeling plastic than on the older machine. It's still good though, the best laptop keyboard you can get. And of course, it's chock full of crapeware.
    - danuker 11y ago
      Crapeware? redeem money for the Windoze and install whatever you please.
      - AlexeyBrin 11y ago
        This has nothing to do with Windows or Microsoft, but with Lenovo installing the crapware on the machine.
        josteink 11y ago
        I think he refers to the fact that any OEM installation, any installation you yourself don't do from scratch, will always be full of crap. So like he said: Redeem the OEM Windows license, install whatever you want, maybe actually Windows, from scratch, and you should be happy. I just bought a Carbon X1, nuked Windows and installed Ubuntu. Not sure if I can redeem the Windows-bit or not, but I'm definitely not plagued by crapware anymore.
  - eli 11y ago
    I still think they're better than most of their peers. Wirecutter's exhaustive review named the T440s the best business laptop: http://thewirecutter.com/reviews/best-business-laptop/ http://thewirecutter.com/reviews/best-business-laptop/
    - adamc 11y ago
      Maybe so, but their trackpads suck.
      - eli 11y ago
        I won't deny that the current trackpads are worse than they used to be.
- 2510c39011c5 11y ago
  I agree... IBM thinkpad not just has better quality, but also many good design ideas that were later overridden by Lenovo -- such as the original keyboard layout, as well as that you don't have to take apart the whole bottom board to swap a hard drive...
- coldpie 11y ago
  Since Lenovo is now on the shit-list, any recommendations for well-built laptops these days?
  - keithly 11y ago
    This site has some good information. It's focused on used models, but it gives you a basis for comparing the product lines of Lenovo, HP, and Dell. http://ktgee.net/guides http://ktgee.net/guides
    - digikata 11y ago
      The amount of work that people need to put into finding a quality pc laptop is one reason Apple laptops do so well. For pc laptops, even if you find a good model once, chances are that the 'model line' branding decisions have quite possibly shifted by the time you're up for your next laptop. So you often end up having to do it all over again.
      - dogweather 11y ago
        100% on both counts. This is exactly it.
      - pjmlp 11y ago
        They are bloody expensive for my home country, where the average salary is around 400 euros before taxes. While I live abroad and could afford one, it doesn't offer the CPU/GPU combo I care about, so in spite of the body quality I never bought one. Not to mention that the last OS releases quality isn't that inspiring.
  - stronglikedan 11y ago
    For what it's worth, I just got a Dell M3800, and couldn't be happier with it. While I do miss the trackpoint on my Thinkpad, the trackpad on the M3800 is one of the finest I've used on any laptop ever. Only second to the Macbook trackpad and Logitech T650 (which I consider equally as good as one another). Other than that, it's light, sturdy, and the 4k screen is magnificent.
Cuuugi 11y ago
Theres a certain irony about complaining about issues in past version of an update software.
drzaiusapelord 11y ago
This isn't a Lenovo issue, its a larger Windows OEM issue. HP, Dell, and the rest are guilty of the same sins. When is Microsoft finally going to reign these guys in? I'd love an Apple-like experience of just booting up into a standard OS and not worrying about various faddish and profit seeking applications pre-installed on my machine. If MS wants to make Win10 the next XP, they need to control these OEM's. Chinese acquisitions of US tech companies rarely works out. They just two very different business cultures. Sadly, Lenovo also bought Motorola's mobile division, so we can expect more of this treatment with the next batch of Motorola phones. The same way they ruined the thinkpad brand - they'll ruin the Moto brand.
- wlesieutre 11y ago
  You can get that with the "Signature Edition" computers available in Microsoft Stores. But the closest MS store is an hour away from me, and normal people don't even know that they should care, let alone care enough to spend two hours driving to pick up a laptop.
  - Haul4ss 11y ago
    You can also get them at microsoftstore.com. Signature Edition PCs are a great idea. Microsoft should have been doing that all along.
- allenbrunson 11y ago
  "control these OEM's?" it was Microsoft who created this mess. they were executing everybody's favorite business maxim, "commoditize your complements." Microsoft is the only company providing the operating system, which runs on an army of undifferentiated PCs, where the manufacturers can only compete on price. of COURSE they're reduced to shady behavior like this. they have no other way to make money, because Microsoft thinks all the profit in the entire ecosystem should be theirs. if they try to "reign in the OEMs," then there will be no profit left at all for them. at that point, they might as well get into some other line of products altogether: netbooks, android phones, etc
  - 11y ago
lessthunk 11y ago
it's popular to bash Lenovo, but isn't all of Windows crappy like that?

pjmlp 11y ago

I miss the old IBM Thinkpad quality....

tenfingers 11y ago
How does the current Lenovo Thinkpad line fares? I've seen a couple of devices recently and they look solidly built with above-average quality overall. But I didn't own any recently (my last Thinkpad was from IBM), so I cannot comment about details.
- pjmlp 11y ago
  The plastic has a lower quality feel to it compared with the old IBMs. For example, in some areas close to the keyboard you can make it bend by applying a little pressure. On the T440p you can somehow notice the screen matrix.
  - cannam 11y ago
    To be fair, none of the recent models has been as bendy as the T4x series, which I think was the last set of T-series actually built by IBM before the acquisition. (I still have a T40p, kept running with parts from three different machines -- a wonderful machine to use, one of the very best, but that chassis was a bit of a disaster.)
  - duncan_bayne 11y ago
    Not just bend. My 530 cracked a couple of months out of warranty, and Lenovo flat-out refused to repair it although they're obliged to do so under Australian Consumer Law. Writing a complaint to CAV is on my TODO list. https://forums.lenovo.com/t5/General-Discussion/Cracked-palm-rest-on-Lenovo-L530/td-p/1922072 https://forums.lenovo.com/t5/General-Discussion/Cracked-palm...
    - userbinator 11y ago
      How did you crack it? I have an X60 where some of the plastics on the case side (near the ports) have cracked off at some point in the past but that was because of some rather extensive... use, it doesn't really affect anything.
      - duncan_bayne 11y ago
        The palm rests cracked from, as far as I can tell, normal wear and tear. Certainly nothing more than I subjected my old L520 to, and that never cracked.
  - Daishiman 11y ago
    I disagree that the flexing is an issue. According to several computer techs the flexing is good, since it means the material is less likely to crack under stress. I certainly feel the Thinkpads of yore had a more visually attractive material, but I've recently bought a Thinkpad x250 and frankly the quality is as good as always. Better, in fact, than the x240, in which several very bad decisions were taken.
    - asillystory 11y ago
      How do you like the chiclet keyboard? I'm still holding onto my x220 for dear life.
      - mfjordvald 11y ago
        The keyboard is fine. The problem is the single sheet trackpad. Half the time I right click it registers as a left click instead. I noticed they changed it back to the old style in the new T450 version so I'm pretty pissed I bought a T440s now. Something this expensive should not piss me off on a daily basis.
      - Daishiman 11y ago
        Surprisingly, I'm not hating it. Considering that the x250 is pretty small, they have less displacement than other keyboards (coming from a T410), but it's full size, the grip is good, and the feedback is better than prior versions. The Trackpoint is laid deeper and lower than the T series, but I adjusted in the day. The click buttons don't protrude as much as older versions and I still haven't adjusted. There are minor changes in keyboard coming from the T series. Insert has been bound to Fn + End (which is alright; I've never really used it), and the upper row is now Home/End/Delete. It's a different layout but I can't say it's worse. The light from above has been changed to an illuminated keyboard, which I find just as good and pretty spiffy. The new trackpad feels, to me, perfectly sized very usable, and a decent replacement for the trackpoint if you're just browsing the web and not typing. I bought a refurbished machine that has the HD IPS touchscreen, and it's been nice. It responds very well to touch and is much brighter than I would ever need. Certainly the touch functionality is not something you use every day, but for some occasions it's useful, and I'm already looking at some alternative skins in some DJing software to work from there in some situations and replace an external controller with just an additional sound card. As a person that's been lugging around a T series on his backpack practically every day for the past 10 years, the lighter weight is a very welcome addition, the processor performance is satisfying, and the screen very readable despite the compromise in space. I'm really enjoying the lower weight and I personally think it's a gorgeous machine. I think there's less visible external parts and reminds me more of the first Thinkpads, with a very minimalist blocky feel. My only critiques are that I wish it had an additional USB port (it has 2; 3 would be really nice), that the trackpoint were laid a couple millimeters higher (I know it's impossible because there's barely any room for the screen, but a man can dream), that modern software was better with HiDPI displays, and that the aspect ratio were taller, but the tradeoffs are easily justify the lighter weight, extra comfort, and screen quality, without sacrificing the input methods, which are the real reason why I buy and have used Thinkpads for the past 18 years. I'm a strong believer that Thinkpad + Trackpoint + Vim is the most productive input method for coding man has ever invented, and no trackpad will ever be a satisfactory replacement.
  - EricSu 11y ago
    A couple times carrying the W530 around in my backpack I've noticed that the corner of the keyboard will pop out of the casing and I'll have to shove it back in.
- rayiner 11y ago
  Hit and miss. The #1 problem with PC manufacturers is that each iteration of the product will regress something major. The touchpad on my T430 is shitty, but at least it doesn't randomly lose input, unlike the one in my T450s. The FHD IPS screen on the latter machine might have been acceptable in 2011. The keyboard keys on the latter machine also have a cheaper feeling plastic than on the older machine. It's still good though, the best laptop keyboard you can get. And of course, it's chock full of crapeware.
  - danuker 11y ago
    Crapeware? redeem money for the Windoze and install whatever you please.
    - AlexeyBrin 11y ago
      This has nothing to do with Windows or Microsoft, but with Lenovo installing the crapware on the machine.
      - josteink 11y ago
        I think he refers to the fact that any OEM installation, any installation you yourself don't do from scratch, will always be full of crap. So like he said: Redeem the OEM Windows license, install whatever you want, maybe actually Windows, from scratch, and you should be happy. I just bought a Carbon X1, nuked Windows and installed Ubuntu. Not sure if I can redeem the Windows-bit or not, but I'm definitely not plagued by crapware anymore.
- eli 11y ago
  I still think they're better than most of their peers. Wirecutter's exhaustive review named the T440s the best business laptop: http://thewirecutter.com/reviews/best-business-laptop/ http://thewirecutter.com/reviews/best-business-laptop/
  - adamc 11y ago
    Maybe so, but their trackpads suck.
    - eli 11y ago
      I won't deny that the current trackpads are worse than they used to be.
2510c39011c5 11y ago
I agree... IBM thinkpad not just has better quality, but also many good design ideas that were later overridden by Lenovo -- such as the original keyboard layout, as well as that you don't have to take apart the whole bottom board to swap a hard drive...
coldpie 11y ago
Since Lenovo is now on the shit-list, any recommendations for well-built laptops these days?
- keithly 11y ago
  This site has some good information. It's focused on used models, but it gives you a basis for comparing the product lines of Lenovo, HP, and Dell. http://ktgee.net/guides http://ktgee.net/guides
  - digikata 11y ago
    The amount of work that people need to put into finding a quality pc laptop is one reason Apple laptops do so well. For pc laptops, even if you find a good model once, chances are that the 'model line' branding decisions have quite possibly shifted by the time you're up for your next laptop. So you often end up having to do it all over again.
    - dogweather 11y ago
      100% on both counts. This is exactly it.
    - pjmlp 11y ago
      They are bloody expensive for my home country, where the average salary is around 400 euros before taxes. While I live abroad and could afford one, it doesn't offer the CPU/GPU combo I care about, so in spite of the body quality I never bought one. Not to mention that the last OS releases quality isn't that inspiring.
- stronglikedan 11y ago
  For what it's worth, I just got a Dell M3800, and couldn't be happier with it. While I do miss the trackpoint on my Thinkpad, the trackpad on the M3800 is one of the finest I've used on any laptop ever. Only second to the Macbook trackpad and Logitech T650 (which I consider equally as good as one another). Other than that, it's light, sturdy, and the 4k screen is magnificent.

Cuuugi 11y ago

Theres a certain irony about complaining about issues in past version of an update software.

drzaiusapelord 11y ago

This isn't a Lenovo issue, its a larger Windows OEM issue. HP, Dell, and the rest are guilty of the same sins. When is Microsoft finally going to reign these guys in? I'd love an Apple-like experience of just booting up into a standard OS and not worrying about various faddish and profit seeking applications pre-installed on my machine. If MS wants to make Win10 the next XP, they need to control these OEM's. Chinese acquisitions of US tech companies rarely works out. They just two very different business cultures. Sadly, Lenovo also bought Motorola's mobile division, so we can expect more of this treatment with the next batch of Motorola phones. The same way they ruined the thinkpad brand - they'll ruin the Moto brand.

wlesieutre 11y ago
You can get that with the "Signature Edition" computers available in Microsoft Stores. But the closest MS store is an hour away from me, and normal people don't even know that they should care, let alone care enough to spend two hours driving to pick up a laptop.
- Haul4ss 11y ago
  You can also get them at microsoftstore.com. Signature Edition PCs are a great idea. Microsoft should have been doing that all along.
allenbrunson 11y ago
"control these OEM's?" it was Microsoft who created this mess. they were executing everybody's favorite business maxim, "commoditize your complements." Microsoft is the only company providing the operating system, which runs on an army of undifferentiated PCs, where the manufacturers can only compete on price. of COURSE they're reduced to shady behavior like this. they have no other way to make money, because Microsoft thinks all the profit in the entire ecosystem should be theirs. if they try to "reign in the OEMs," then there will be no profit left at all for them. at that point, they might as well get into some other line of products altogether: netbooks, android phones, etc
- 11y ago

lessthunk 11y ago

it's popular to bash Lenovo, but isn't all of Windows crappy like that?