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Koreans are also extremely image conscious and love parading around with prestigious international luxury brands - possibly even more so than the Chinese. They

by smegel 11y ago

Koreans are also extremely image conscious and love parading around with prestigious international luxury brands - possibly even more so than the Chinese. They are also extremely proud of Korea as a nation and tend to favor Korean brands in everything other than luxury prestige goods. And Samsung is basically their national icon. So I imagine the average Korean must be quite in conflict when buying a smartphone - the recognized international symbol of smartphone prestige and luxury (the iPhone) vs the nationalistic Galaxy. But given their booming economy, I guess many just buy both...

smil 11y ago
Same as any nationality, ever.
- Zirro 11y ago
  Certainly not everywhere. In many nations people scoff at their local brands in favor of international ones, and people tend to buy what is popular and offers more features, regardless of where the company is based.
  - wonderingwhere 11y ago
    > In many nations people scoff at their local brands maybe because it's shit and that people know they can't be lied to?
    - collyw 11y ago
      I have certainly seen truth in this with regards to beer. I moved to Spain a few years ago, and was drinking San Miguel. Someone asked me, "Why are you drinking that crap?" "This is San Miguel, premium lager" "No its not, that's the crap struff" Its marketed as a Premium lager in the UK. Likewise in Mexico, Corona is the bog standard crap lager, yet it is sold as a moderately expensive lager in many other countries.
      - smil 11y ago
        And Budweiser is sold as premium in Europe, Asia.
        collyw 11y ago
        Nah, even we know it is shit.
      - soylentcola 11y ago
        Yeah, the "import" tag does seem to work that way. I guess the idea is that something worth importing from overseas must offer something you can't get for less at home. In reality, it's a great way to rebrand and market. When I studied abroad in Ireland back in the 90's, Guinness was generally as cheap as any other mainstream domestic beer (about £2 a pint at the local) while Budweiser was a more expensive import. Here in the states, Bud is your cheap, bog-standard beer...not a discount brand but nothing a "beer fan" would care about. And they brand Stella Artois and Carling as fancy import beer over here but everyone I know from Europe jokes that those are the sorts of beers you get when you just want to get drunk and get in fights. Then there's Fosters....do they even sell that in Australia? Not super popular over here in the US but it's still marketed as some sort of quality import while I've never met an Aussie who touches the stuff.
  - smil 11y ago
    It goes both ways. Swedes really liked Ericsson phones. They also really liked Nokia phones. Finns really liked Nokia phones. They also really like iPhones. Americans really like iPhones. They also really like Samsung Galaxies. Etc.
    - smil 11y ago
      Downvoters, look up Dunning-Kruger.
kijin 11y ago
It's not that simple. Many Koreans adore Samsung as a national icon, and it is indeed true that Samsung's electronics division alone accounts for a sizable percentage of Korea's GDP. But there are also a lot of Koreans who resent Samsung and go out of their way to avoid buying from them. The influence of chaebol [1] on the Korean economy and politics is a contentious topic, often split along ideological lines. In addition, the smartphone market in South Korea is extremely convoluted. Sticker prices are artificially inflated, and manufacturers, carriers, and retailers all throw around arbitrary discounts as a weapon to steal their competitors' customers. For a lot of people who just want a phone that works, the choice has less to do with the brand or the features, and more to do with whichever model happens to be the best deal at any given hour. Nobody praises anyone for buying a Galaxy or chastises anyone for buying an iPhone. And if you don't like either, you just buy LG. [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chaebol https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chaebol
- soylentcola 11y ago
  > Sticker prices are artificially inflated, and manufacturers, carriers, and retailers all throw around arbitrary discounts as a weapon to steal their competitors' customers. Sounds fairly similar to the state of the US market (minus the competing part). Devices marketed as "flagships" sell for $600-800+ but carriers use heavy discounts to get people to sign long service contracts. Lots of people would rather spend $200 up front and sign a 2-year contract for $90/mo than spend $400-500 up front with a SIM and $30-45/mo prepaid service. Since you're in a contract, you only really have to think about it every two years and at that point, most find it easier to just re-up, drop another $200, and get whatever the current must-have device is.
  - kijin 11y ago
    It's a bit different. Flagship models typically have an inflated sticker price in the $1000 range, and a long-term contract is only one component (and a rather insignificant one) of the overall discount. Manufacturers and retailers often add arbitrary discounts and rebates on top of it, so if you're really lucky, you can get a brand new flagship phone for free. But the next person will have to pay $700 for it, even with the same contract, while the store across the street sells it for $400 because they're getting a big rebate from the carrier this week. And most of the above are straightforward discounts and rebates, not something that is sneaked into the monthly plan like in the U.S. The price of the phone after the discount is divided by 24 or 30 and tacked onto the phone bill as a separate line item. You can pay it off anytime you want. The government is trying to regulate the industry into making the pricing structure more transparent to customers, but the general consensus is that the government is failing.
na85 11y ago
The Samsung-branded Android is horrible, though. I really think Google's permissiveness in allowing vendors to bundle their crapware really kills any prestige the brand might have had. iOS really isn't anything special, but when compared to the literal dogshit that Samsung puts on their phones, it's hard not to make a favourable comparison in favour of Apple's operating system. I used to think Android had bad performance until I got my first Nexus-series device, at which point I realized that "Vanilla Android" is actually a pretty good OS. It's bothersome that seemingly nobody's out there making this point. Samsung's insistence on bundling crapware is killing Android.
- jon-wood 11y ago
  I'm always amazed at the crap that people put up with on Android phones. My Moto G is half as powerful as my wife's Samsung, and feels massively more responsive, and I don't have to put up with their god awful UI "enhancements".
  - nkoren 11y ago
    This. When my Galaxy S3 went for a swim, I "downgraded" to a first-generation Moto G. The lack of crapware and Samsung "enhancements" makes it a far better phone -- for less than half the price. Unless their OS philosophy changes, there's no way I'd buy Samsung again.
- WatchDog 11y ago
  > literal dogshit that Samsung puts on their phones Since when do Samsung literally put dogshit on their phones?
  - deleted 11y ago
    [deleted]
    - ghshephard 11y ago
      He was commenting on the (mis)use of "literal", which, in the english language, has shifted it's meaning from "taking words in their usual or most basic sense without metaphor or allegory" - to it's new (recent) sense which is used to "emphasize strongly this metaphor/allegory."
wonderingwhere 11y ago
You've accurately stereotyped but no Korean I know would be in conflict...I mean for a minute I thought you were talking about North Korea.
- Caprinicus 11y ago
  North koreans prefer the iPhone because the logo resembles something edible
fishgil 11y ago
Korean here. I know you are generalising but there are a lot of Koreans who hate Samsung. They are above the law, the Lee family is like the aristocrats before the French revolution, wield monopolistic powers and are a big bully. Problem is, Koreans don't have a lot of choices when it comes to phones. You could either buy a Samsung phone, which are extremely cheap, have a big screen, nice colours and are overall good phones, or you could buy an LG which is seen to be inferior in every aspect. Then you have Apple and honestly, a lot of people do choose Apple but the price of a typical Samsung is so much cheaper. So I guess a lot of Koreans buy Samsung because they don't really have another choice. Re your comment about Koreans being image conscious and materialistic, I could not agree with you anymore. We are the most materialistic race on the planet probably. Not to mention proud. So it's like: fuck you Samsung but thanks for making Korean a little bit more relevant in the tech industry.
- soup10 11y ago
  Samsung makes a lot of the components for the iPhone and other smartphones. Even if their branded devices crater, they'll be fine.
  - threeseed 11y ago
    Apple routinely bounces back and forth between suppliers. I would imagine Samsung would much prefer the guaranteed income into their components division from Samsung phone sales rather than intermittent incomes from Apple.
- dhfromkorea 11y ago
  One more Korean here. "fuck you Samsung but thanks for making Korean a little bit more relevant in the tech industry."\n -> I would have concurred 3-5 years ago, but I disagree now. I think now Samsung is the bottleneck which functions as an engineer hog and nefariously undermines their productivity/potential. Take Tizen. An Army of 1,000+ developers have been working on it for years. What do they have now? I am living in Finland which used to be the country of Nokia and the country is rebuilding itself post-Nokia. South Korea can do the same "without Samsung".
josteink 11y ago
> So I imagine the average Korean must be quite in conflict when buying a smartphone - the recognized international symbol of smartphone prestige and luxury (the iPhone) vs the nationalistic Galaxy. I think you mean the one flavour of international symbol of smartphone prestige (Samsung Galaxy) vs another flavour of international symbol of smartphone prestige (iPhone). Outside silicon valley, Android is actually quite well perceived and you're not looked at as an hobo or weirdo for using anything not an iPhone. It may be hard to believe, but try to think differently every once in a while ;)
scalayer 11y ago
less than scientific surveyor here: I was all over Korea for a month last Summer and it definitely seemed that Samsung/LG phones were 90% of what I saw. Especially on the metro in Seoul. The few iPhones I saw were all older models. If you have something like an LG G3 and above, you can get LTE Advance speeds in Seoul which is quite astounding to experience. 300mbit on your phone!
- 72deluxe 11y ago
  Do they have sufficient storage on them to store all that data they're downloading? I notice that Apple is still offering 16GB devices which I can only imagine will be full within nanoseconds given LTE Advance speeds (although they probably don't sell the GSM model with 16GB, right?). Do Android devices still come in 16GB models over there? I am always saddened to see such small storage on devices. EDIT: Someone's on a downvote party for my comments today I think.
  - bane 11y ago
    Most Koreans are interested in streaming services, not downloading. Streaming video, Podcasts, movies etc. On top of that the system works underground in the subway and on top of that there's digital tv everywhere also https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Digital_Multimedia_Broadcasting https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Digital_Multimedia_Broadcastin... Many phones in Korea support DMB (and it also works on the subway).
    - 72deluxe 11y ago
      Thanks, very informative.
bane 11y ago
Most Koreans have a love/hate relationship with Samsung. The family that runs it is generally not thought well of, but it's so pervasive a company that it's virtually impossible to avoid. The electronics division alone is larger than Apple, and you can almost go cradle to grave living in, wearing, driving, eating Samsung products made by their other sizable divisions. And your life insurance might also be from Samsung, so when you die, your funeral costs are covered.
- seunosewa 11y ago
  In what sense is the Samsung Electronics division larger than Apple?
  - bane 11y ago
    More revenue.
  - Shakahs 11y ago
    Samsung makes almost everything Apple does plus TVs, DVD players, cameras, printers, air conditioners, refrigerators and more. They have a huge product line.
    - bane 11y ago
      Don't forget that most of what apple makes has most of the guts made by Samsung.
yongjik 11y ago
I'll just clarify one misconception: it's not really the case that iPhone is considered an international symbol of prestige and luxury. While they are expensive, they aren't that expensive, compared to Samsung phones. Anyone who can afford a top-line Samsung phone can easily afford an iPhone. In addition, South Korea's dreadful web ecosystem (you can't buy anything using Mac OS) has the effect of substantially reducing the appeal of Apple products. IMHO, using Apple products in Korea is more viewed as being "that weird guy who is being different just for the sake of being different" rather than having an "international symbol of prestige," whatever that means. (Of course both are exaggeration: people don't really care that much what kind phone you use.) Also there's the matter of Apple's customer service: for some reason they have a reputation of being absolutely horrible in Korea, which leads to fewer sales, which again makes Apple think it's not worth the trouble to set up decent customer service in Korea... * About Samsung being Korea's national icon.... haha serves me right for not fighting hard enough to throw its leaders into jail, I guess.
devonkim 11y ago
Samsung and LG are both chaebols and it's not like Hyundai will step up to the plate and challenge either of those two. And as another Korean, have to agree on how superficial Koreans can be. It just never made any sense how conformity and outward displays of success became so important culturally. It's tough for me to ever associate with other Koreans given these are literally the opposite of my own personal values, but I always have to wonder what some of the advantages or insights such a culture might have that I'm missing. Doesn't matter how much Korean I speak or read or even write... I just can't get it to gel with me. It's like reading the Bible for me and an atheist.

by smegel 11y ago

smil 11y ago

Same as any nationality, ever.

Zirro 11y ago
Certainly not everywhere. In many nations people scoff at their local brands in favor of international ones, and people tend to buy what is popular and offers more features, regardless of where the company is based.
- wonderingwhere 11y ago
  > In many nations people scoff at their local brands maybe because it's shit and that people know they can't be lied to?
  - collyw 11y ago
    I have certainly seen truth in this with regards to beer. I moved to Spain a few years ago, and was drinking San Miguel. Someone asked me, "Why are you drinking that crap?" "This is San Miguel, premium lager" "No its not, that's the crap struff" Its marketed as a Premium lager in the UK. Likewise in Mexico, Corona is the bog standard crap lager, yet it is sold as a moderately expensive lager in many other countries.
    - smil 11y ago
      And Budweiser is sold as premium in Europe, Asia.
      - collyw 11y ago
        Nah, even we know it is shit.
    - soylentcola 11y ago
      Yeah, the "import" tag does seem to work that way. I guess the idea is that something worth importing from overseas must offer something you can't get for less at home. In reality, it's a great way to rebrand and market. When I studied abroad in Ireland back in the 90's, Guinness was generally as cheap as any other mainstream domestic beer (about £2 a pint at the local) while Budweiser was a more expensive import. Here in the states, Bud is your cheap, bog-standard beer...not a discount brand but nothing a "beer fan" would care about. And they brand Stella Artois and Carling as fancy import beer over here but everyone I know from Europe jokes that those are the sorts of beers you get when you just want to get drunk and get in fights. Then there's Fosters....do they even sell that in Australia? Not super popular over here in the US but it's still marketed as some sort of quality import while I've never met an Aussie who touches the stuff.
- smil 11y ago
  It goes both ways. Swedes really liked Ericsson phones. They also really liked Nokia phones. Finns really liked Nokia phones. They also really like iPhones. Americans really like iPhones. They also really like Samsung Galaxies. Etc.
  - smil 11y ago
    Downvoters, look up Dunning-Kruger.

kijin 11y ago

It's not that simple. Many Koreans adore Samsung as a national icon, and it is indeed true that Samsung's electronics division alone accounts for a sizable percentage of Korea's GDP. But there are also a lot of Koreans who resent Samsung and go out of their way to avoid buying from them. The influence of chaebol [1] on the Korean economy and politics is a contentious topic, often split along ideological lines. In addition, the smartphone market in South Korea is extremely convoluted. Sticker prices are artificially inflated, and manufacturers, carriers, and retailers all throw around arbitrary discounts as a weapon to steal their competitors' customers. For a lot of people who just want a phone that works, the choice has less to do with the brand or the features, and more to do with whichever model happens to be the best deal at any given hour. Nobody praises anyone for buying a Galaxy or chastises anyone for buying an iPhone. And if you don't like either, you just buy LG. [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chaebol https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chaebol

soylentcola 11y ago
> Sticker prices are artificially inflated, and manufacturers, carriers, and retailers all throw around arbitrary discounts as a weapon to steal their competitors' customers. Sounds fairly similar to the state of the US market (minus the competing part). Devices marketed as "flagships" sell for $600-800+ but carriers use heavy discounts to get people to sign long service contracts. Lots of people would rather spend $200 up front and sign a 2-year contract for $90/mo than spend $400-500 up front with a SIM and $30-45/mo prepaid service. Since you're in a contract, you only really have to think about it every two years and at that point, most find it easier to just re-up, drop another $200, and get whatever the current must-have device is.
- kijin 11y ago
  It's a bit different. Flagship models typically have an inflated sticker price in the $1000 range, and a long-term contract is only one component (and a rather insignificant one) of the overall discount. Manufacturers and retailers often add arbitrary discounts and rebates on top of it, so if you're really lucky, you can get a brand new flagship phone for free. But the next person will have to pay $700 for it, even with the same contract, while the store across the street sells it for $400 because they're getting a big rebate from the carrier this week. And most of the above are straightforward discounts and rebates, not something that is sneaked into the monthly plan like in the U.S. The price of the phone after the discount is divided by 24 or 30 and tacked onto the phone bill as a separate line item. You can pay it off anytime you want. The government is trying to regulate the industry into making the pricing structure more transparent to customers, but the general consensus is that the government is failing.

na85 11y ago

The Samsung-branded Android is horrible, though. I really think Google's permissiveness in allowing vendors to bundle their crapware really kills any prestige the brand might have had. iOS really isn't anything special, but when compared to the literal dogshit that Samsung puts on their phones, it's hard not to make a favourable comparison in favour of Apple's operating system. I used to think Android had bad performance until I got my first Nexus-series device, at which point I realized that "Vanilla Android" is actually a pretty good OS. It's bothersome that seemingly nobody's out there making this point. Samsung's insistence on bundling crapware is killing Android.

jon-wood 11y ago
I'm always amazed at the crap that people put up with on Android phones. My Moto G is half as powerful as my wife's Samsung, and feels massively more responsive, and I don't have to put up with their god awful UI "enhancements".
- nkoren 11y ago
  This. When my Galaxy S3 went for a swim, I "downgraded" to a first-generation Moto G. The lack of crapware and Samsung "enhancements" makes it a far better phone -- for less than half the price. Unless their OS philosophy changes, there's no way I'd buy Samsung again.
WatchDog 11y ago
> literal dogshit that Samsung puts on their phones Since when do Samsung literally put dogshit on their phones?
- deleted 11y ago
  [deleted]
  - ghshephard 11y ago
    He was commenting on the (mis)use of "literal", which, in the english language, has shifted it's meaning from "taking words in their usual or most basic sense without metaphor or allegory" - to it's new (recent) sense which is used to "emphasize strongly this metaphor/allegory."

wonderingwhere 11y ago

You've accurately stereotyped but no Korean I know would be in conflict...I mean for a minute I thought you were talking about North Korea.

Caprinicus 11y ago
North koreans prefer the iPhone because the logo resembles something edible

fishgil 11y ago

Korean here. I know you are generalising but there are a lot of Koreans who hate Samsung. They are above the law, the Lee family is like the aristocrats before the French revolution, wield monopolistic powers and are a big bully. Problem is, Koreans don't have a lot of choices when it comes to phones. You could either buy a Samsung phone, which are extremely cheap, have a big screen, nice colours and are overall good phones, or you could buy an LG which is seen to be inferior in every aspect. Then you have Apple and honestly, a lot of people do choose Apple but the price of a typical Samsung is so much cheaper. So I guess a lot of Koreans buy Samsung because they don't really have another choice. Re your comment about Koreans being image conscious and materialistic, I could not agree with you anymore. We are the most materialistic race on the planet probably. Not to mention proud. So it's like: fuck you Samsung but thanks for making Korean a little bit more relevant in the tech industry.

soup10 11y ago
Samsung makes a lot of the components for the iPhone and other smartphones. Even if their branded devices crater, they'll be fine.
- threeseed 11y ago
  Apple routinely bounces back and forth between suppliers. I would imagine Samsung would much prefer the guaranteed income into their components division from Samsung phone sales rather than intermittent incomes from Apple.
dhfromkorea 11y ago
One more Korean here. "fuck you Samsung but thanks for making Korean a little bit more relevant in the tech industry."\n -> I would have concurred 3-5 years ago, but I disagree now. I think now Samsung is the bottleneck which functions as an engineer hog and nefariously undermines their productivity/potential. Take Tizen. An Army of 1,000+ developers have been working on it for years. What do they have now? I am living in Finland which used to be the country of Nokia and the country is rebuilding itself post-Nokia. South Korea can do the same "without Samsung".

josteink 11y ago

> So I imagine the average Korean must be quite in conflict when buying a smartphone - the recognized international symbol of smartphone prestige and luxury (the iPhone) vs the nationalistic Galaxy. I think you mean the one flavour of international symbol of smartphone prestige (Samsung Galaxy) vs another flavour of international symbol of smartphone prestige (iPhone). Outside silicon valley, Android is actually quite well perceived and you're not looked at as an hobo or weirdo for using anything not an iPhone. It may be hard to believe, but try to think differently every once in a while ;)

scalayer 11y ago

less than scientific surveyor here: I was all over Korea for a month last Summer and it definitely seemed that Samsung/LG phones were 90% of what I saw. Especially on the metro in Seoul. The few iPhones I saw were all older models. If you have something like an LG G3 and above, you can get LTE Advance speeds in Seoul which is quite astounding to experience. 300mbit on your phone!

72deluxe 11y ago
Do they have sufficient storage on them to store all that data they're downloading? I notice that Apple is still offering 16GB devices which I can only imagine will be full within nanoseconds given LTE Advance speeds (although they probably don't sell the GSM model with 16GB, right?). Do Android devices still come in 16GB models over there? I am always saddened to see such small storage on devices. EDIT: Someone's on a downvote party for my comments today I think.
- bane 11y ago
  Most Koreans are interested in streaming services, not downloading. Streaming video, Podcasts, movies etc. On top of that the system works underground in the subway and on top of that there's digital tv everywhere also https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Digital_Multimedia_Broadcasting https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Digital_Multimedia_Broadcastin... Many phones in Korea support DMB (and it also works on the subway).
  - 72deluxe 11y ago
    Thanks, very informative.

bane 11y ago

Most Koreans have a love/hate relationship with Samsung. The family that runs it is generally not thought well of, but it's so pervasive a company that it's virtually impossible to avoid. The electronics division alone is larger than Apple, and you can almost go cradle to grave living in, wearing, driving, eating Samsung products made by their other sizable divisions. And your life insurance might also be from Samsung, so when you die, your funeral costs are covered.

seunosewa 11y ago
In what sense is the Samsung Electronics division larger than Apple?
- bane 11y ago
  More revenue.
- Shakahs 11y ago
  Samsung makes almost everything Apple does plus TVs, DVD players, cameras, printers, air conditioners, refrigerators and more. They have a huge product line.
  - bane 11y ago
    Don't forget that most of what apple makes has most of the guts made by Samsung.

yongjik 11y ago

I'll just clarify one misconception: it's not really the case that iPhone is considered an international symbol of prestige and luxury. While they are expensive, they aren't that expensive, compared to Samsung phones. Anyone who can afford a top-line Samsung phone can easily afford an iPhone. In addition, South Korea's dreadful web ecosystem (you can't buy anything using Mac OS) has the effect of substantially reducing the appeal of Apple products. IMHO, using Apple products in Korea is more viewed as being "that weird guy who is being different just for the sake of being different" rather than having an "international symbol of prestige," whatever that means. (Of course both are exaggeration: people don't really care that much what kind phone you use.) Also there's the matter of Apple's customer service: for some reason they have a reputation of being absolutely horrible in Korea, which leads to fewer sales, which again makes Apple think it's not worth the trouble to set up decent customer service in Korea... * About Samsung being Korea's national icon.... haha serves me right for not fighting hard enough to throw its leaders into jail, I guess.

devonkim 11y ago

Samsung and LG are both chaebols and it's not like Hyundai will step up to the plate and challenge either of those two. And as another Korean, have to agree on how superficial Koreans can be. It just never made any sense how conformity and outward displays of success became so important culturally. It's tough for me to ever associate with other Koreans given these are literally the opposite of my own personal values, but I always have to wonder what some of the advantages or insights such a culture might have that I'm missing. Doesn't matter how much Korean I speak or read or even write... I just can't get it to gel with me. It's like reading the Bible for me and an atheist.