5 ms·

Their version of "low end" is amusing to me. But this is hardly surprising. Hifi suffers from a taxic interaction of diminishing returns and snake oil, and I

by rodgerd 12y ago

Their version of "low end" is amusing to me. But this is hardly surprising. Hifi suffers from a taxic interaction of diminishing returns and snake oil, and I say that as someone who has spent more than a few dollars myself.

nvk 12y ago
After spending a few bucks myself, I second this. The only thing i'd add is, invest in a good pair of speakers, that's where you'd get the best ROI.
- barney54 12y ago
  Or alternatively, invest in a good pair of headphones--also good ROI.
  - _delirium 12y ago
    Much cheaper in absolute terms as well. You can get very good headphones in the $100-200 range (even some under $100), while speaker systems in that range tend to be mediocre.
    - e12e 12y ago
      Ah, but if you are 10 people listening, that's suddenly $10 000 (actually more, as you'd probably need a little more expensive amp to drive 10 good headphones. Nowhere near 10x though).
      - grkvlt 12y ago
        Er, $1000 for ten people - although this isn't still a small amount it is close to an average mid-range home audio setup. The $10K you mention would be for 100 people, and then you would be looking at audio equipment for small performances and clubs, which can easily cost that much or more. So, interestingly, the 100 x N formula for cost of audio equipment for N people to listen to, seems to hold. I am curious about N=1000 and above, certainly stadium systems cost over $100K and for 10K listeners I guess $1M is pretty small. Maybe there should be a scaling factor in there, or it might be better modeled by a power-law relationship?
        e12e 12y ago
        Hah, lol. Yes ofc. But really, what you need for 10 people is ~1000$ worth of stereo equipment, not 10 sets of head phones... Maybe when we get dac's operated into our ears... http://www.wyldeside.com/rpgs/cp2020/cw-cyberaudio.html http://www.wyldeside.com/rpgs/cp2020/cw-cyberaudio.html
- PebblesHD 12y ago
  I'm amazed at the quality of older speakers when it comes to value for money. I'm using a pair of Chadwick executive 12 cabinets in my living room and they're simply the best sounding speakers I've owned and they cost next to nothing. The only expense so far is cleaning and light refurb to remove rot.
  - peteretep 12y ago
    > Chadwick executive 12 That term has no Google footprint
    - DanBC 12y ago
      Raudio chadwick speakers returns some relevant results. http://www.stereo.net.au/forums/index.php?/topic/40792-australian-made-speakers-how-good/page-4 http://www.stereo.net.au/forums/index.php?/topic/40792-austr... > The Executive Monitor from Chadwick Audio Furnishings(NSW) was the top model in the Chadwick range and used a modified Etone245(300mm) unit in a rear vented transmission line enclosure with the Audax 160mm mid/range,25mm dome and an aluminium cone super tweeter. I have no idea how it compared to the imports,in the early 80,s,but many Australian designed speakers outshone the competition in performance and value at the top end of the market;unfortunately there was a cheap product area that supplied bulk stores and these inferior items still surface from time to time.A bit like the white van stuff .
      - PebblesHD 12y ago
        That sounds quite familiar. I got them from my parents many years ago, and they got them new in an audio store in Sydney. I have the original brochure and manual somewhere, I'll see if I can dig them out.
  - seanp2k2 12y ago
    I have some JBL L100s wired to a PartsExpress-sourced Dayton sonic T amp (read: amazingly competent $30 plastic external hdd-sized box). Sounds amazing for all reasonable volume levels living in an apartment. The speakers are pretty big, but they can be found pretty cheap at garage sales, Craigslist, flea markets, goodwill, etc. Wire it up to an Airport Express and you have a pretty much unbeatable home AirPlay set-up for a few hundred bucks.
- deleted 12y ago
  [deleted]
peteretep 12y ago
> "low end" No commentary here, but I was interested what it cost, so: Behringer A500: $200 Sony DVP-NS355: ~$50 ATC SCM 12: $1,500-$2,500
- thirdsun 12y ago
  Since the speakers are used in both systems and have the most significant impact on the sound, it had to be something good and not necessarily cheap. The source and amp of the budget system are very affordable on the other hand, I don't see any problem with that setup.
- rodgerd 12y ago
  > Behringer A500: $200 Interesting, because locally I can only find the A500 for much more than that. Paying huge amounts for a CD player is unutterable wankery in this day and age.
e12e 12y ago
Agreed, I'd much rather see a $200 vs a $500 system (vs a $1000 system, vs a $10000 system...). I'm not sure why anyone would invest something on the order of magnitude of the "expensive" system, and not get full-height electrostatic speakers or something (Not that I think it would be worth it then either...). It would have been interesting to see what the result where if they'd simply given the testers blindfolds, and had two whole (or preferably three) set-ups -- where all the components where "matched" (eg: $100 system: integrated "boom box"/ speaker with integrated amp & ipod, $1000 system: speakers ~ $500/pair, amp $300, dac $200 etc).

by rodgerd 12y ago

nvk 12y ago

After spending a few bucks myself, I second this. The only thing i'd add is, invest in a good pair of speakers, that's where you'd get the best ROI.

barney54 12y ago
Or alternatively, invest in a good pair of headphones--also good ROI.
- _delirium 12y ago
  Much cheaper in absolute terms as well. You can get very good headphones in the $100-200 range (even some under $100), while speaker systems in that range tend to be mediocre.
  - e12e 12y ago
    Ah, but if you are 10 people listening, that's suddenly $10 000 (actually more, as you'd probably need a little more expensive amp to drive 10 good headphones. Nowhere near 10x though).
    - grkvlt 12y ago
      Er, $1000 for ten people - although this isn't still a small amount it is close to an average mid-range home audio setup. The $10K you mention would be for 100 people, and then you would be looking at audio equipment for small performances and clubs, which can easily cost that much or more. So, interestingly, the 100 x N formula for cost of audio equipment for N people to listen to, seems to hold. I am curious about N=1000 and above, certainly stadium systems cost over $100K and for 10K listeners I guess $1M is pretty small. Maybe there should be a scaling factor in there, or it might be better modeled by a power-law relationship?
      - e12e 12y ago
        Hah, lol. Yes ofc. But really, what you need for 10 people is ~1000$ worth of stereo equipment, not 10 sets of head phones... Maybe when we get dac's operated into our ears... http://www.wyldeside.com/rpgs/cp2020/cw-cyberaudio.html http://www.wyldeside.com/rpgs/cp2020/cw-cyberaudio.html
PebblesHD 12y ago
I'm amazed at the quality of older speakers when it comes to value for money. I'm using a pair of Chadwick executive 12 cabinets in my living room and they're simply the best sounding speakers I've owned and they cost next to nothing. The only expense so far is cleaning and light refurb to remove rot.
- peteretep 12y ago
  > Chadwick executive 12 That term has no Google footprint
  - DanBC 12y ago
    Raudio chadwick speakers returns some relevant results. http://www.stereo.net.au/forums/index.php?/topic/40792-australian-made-speakers-how-good/page-4 http://www.stereo.net.au/forums/index.php?/topic/40792-austr... > The Executive Monitor from Chadwick Audio Furnishings(NSW) was the top model in the Chadwick range and used a modified Etone245(300mm) unit in a rear vented transmission line enclosure with the Audax 160mm mid/range,25mm dome and an aluminium cone super tweeter. I have no idea how it compared to the imports,in the early 80,s,but many Australian designed speakers outshone the competition in performance and value at the top end of the market;unfortunately there was a cheap product area that supplied bulk stores and these inferior items still surface from time to time.A bit like the white van stuff .
    - PebblesHD 12y ago
      That sounds quite familiar. I got them from my parents many years ago, and they got them new in an audio store in Sydney. I have the original brochure and manual somewhere, I'll see if I can dig them out.
- seanp2k2 12y ago
  I have some JBL L100s wired to a PartsExpress-sourced Dayton sonic T amp (read: amazingly competent $30 plastic external hdd-sized box). Sounds amazing for all reasonable volume levels living in an apartment. The speakers are pretty big, but they can be found pretty cheap at garage sales, Craigslist, flea markets, goodwill, etc. Wire it up to an Airport Express and you have a pretty much unbeatable home AirPlay set-up for a few hundred bucks.
deleted 12y ago
[deleted]

peteretep 12y ago

> "low end" No commentary here, but I was interested what it cost, so: Behringer A500: $200 Sony DVP-NS355: ~$50 ATC SCM 12: $1,500-$2,500

thirdsun 12y ago
Since the speakers are used in both systems and have the most significant impact on the sound, it had to be something good and not necessarily cheap. The source and amp of the budget system are very affordable on the other hand, I don't see any problem with that setup.
rodgerd 12y ago
> Behringer A500: $200 Interesting, because locally I can only find the A500 for much more than that. Paying huge amounts for a CD player is unutterable wankery in this day and age.

e12e 12y ago

Agreed, I'd much rather see a $200 vs a $500 system (vs a $1000 system, vs a $10000 system...). I'm not sure why anyone would invest something on the order of magnitude of the "expensive" system, and not get full-height electrostatic speakers or something (Not that I think it would be worth it then either...). It would have been interesting to see what the result where if they'd simply given the testers blindfolds, and had two whole (or preferably three) set-ups -- where all the components where "matched" (eg: $100 system: integrated "boom box"/ speaker with integrated amp & ipod, $1000 system: speakers ~ $500/pair, amp $300, dac $200 etc).