5 ms·

Dodging Abilify

17 points by luu 12y ago

Igglyboo 12y ago
Sounds like this women thinks she knows better than the entire medical industry based on some anecdotal evidence. Just because something doesn't work for her doesn't make it a scam.
- api 12y ago
  The studies behind this drug were done by the drug maker itself. You don't see a problem?
  - darawk 12y ago
    That's pretty standard practice in the pharmaceuticals industry. Not saying it's a good thing, but it's far from unique to Abilify.
    - deleted 12y ago
      [deleted]
- ryanmarsh 12y ago
  It sounds like you have a lot of faith in the rigor of the drug manufacturer. if you were to do some research on GSK's treatment of Paxil for adolescents you might come away feeling differently.
- rrss1122 12y ago
  I don't think it sounds that way at all. In fact, the woman even acknowledge she didn't know as much as she wanted to and was going to do more research into Abilify to be better-informed. The linked article is actually part one of a five-part series. I encourage you to read the other parts before dismissing her "based on some anecdotal evidence".
carbocation 12y ago
If you are not interested in a physician's help, do not seek their help. If you are interested in a physician's help but do not want to take a specific medication or class of medications, things will get a bit more complex, but you should eventually be able to find a specialist who will work within the confines of your requests. However, limiting your treatment options in this way is hopefully not done lightly. Most of the medications that we have to offer do nothing for most people who take them. Abilify is one example, but it's not really unique in this way. If you are interested in a physician's help but do not want to take a specific medication, yet your physician is insistent, it's not helpful to lie to your physician to get out of it. I think it would make sense to seek a second opinion or transfer your care to someone with whom you can negotiate, rather than lying about trying a medication. What's worse (for you) is that when you've finally had enough of this physician's lack of success and you move your care elsewhere, your new physician will think you have already tried a medication that you have not in fact tried, and so they will form an incorrect view of what did and did not work for your condition. In sum, be honest with your doctor about what you suffer, what you take, and what you want; if you feel that you cannot negotiate honestly with your doctor, keep looking until you find someone with whom you are willing to be open.
- abecedarius 12y ago
  This advice assumes you have the power to say no. If you might get committed, it seems sensible to consider all your options.
  - carbocation 12y ago
    The barrier to being "committed" is extremely high. Getting committed generally requires a patient to endorse a desire and a plan to harm themselves, or to temporarily be so disorganized that they cannot safely be in the community. The author does endorse a history of suicidality, but the description of the relationship with Abilify comes across as one where it is being offered in the context of a depression relapse. If she had voiced concerns in her article that she would be committed if she didn't try Abilify, that would be germane, but the article didn't seem to raise such concerns.
  - 12y ago
d0ugie 12y ago
Just a few years after being diagnosed bipolar and still new to the game, on a trek to find the right "cocktail" of medicines to keep me both sane and happy, I used Abilify for about a month to contain my mania without "snowing" myself intolerably. It did snow me, it made me depressed, in addition to not working while at work (or socializing at all) I would either leave work or hide in a conference room. Normally the thing to do obviously is discontinue the drug and try another, but it's during these states, at least for me, that one loses focus, self-perception and the nerve and inclination to resolve the situation. Your doctor might argue that what you're feeling is actually normal, what everyone else feels, and you just feel lousy because you're not manic as you had delightfully been before. Just give it three weeks, he says. Maybe he's right, maybe he's not; maybe he doesn't want to deal with trying a different drug at least for a few more weeks to get you to calibrate to the one you don't like. But he's got an advantage in that debate which is that you are chemically subdued. Challenge him and put up a fair fight before letting yourself become convinced one way or the other. You might reach a compromise that works better, like sticking with the drug but at a lower dose. Eventually my shrink put that together and we subbed in another atypical antipsychotic, Zyprexa, which, though like Abilify good for some people and bad for others, and risky, gets the job done, along others in the cocktail, nicely for me. So when starting a drug, especially a neuroleptic or an antimanic, try to remember to be aggressive in monitoring yourself and be vocal when articulating what you think are your negative side effects stemming from the new drug. Don't just show up to your next session and say you're doing fine when you're not, even though a depressive spell makes that a tempting thing to do. And for the rookies, in addition to the above, if you find yourself reluctant to complain about any new drug that has a sexual side effect like impotency or no libido, for God's sake, snap out of that and tell your doctor, otherwise you will not only not resolve those problems but you risk conditioning yourself to distrust medicine and psychiatry which can lead to noncompliance and possibly your downfall. It takes some time, but if you're motivated and smart about it, you've got a good shot at rescuing your captured soul from manic depression, and without killing your soul, or yourself, in the process.
lisa_henderson 12y ago
This is ridiculous: @carbocation: "If you are interested in a physician's help but do not want to take a specific medication or class of medications, things will get a bit more complex" You don't understand the pressure the doctors are under to prescribe these things. A few years ago I was bit by a tick and a few months later I developed severe problems because of that tick bite. One of the problems was that my heart would sometimes race. The doctor put me on antibiotics to deal with the bacteria from the tick bite, but the doctor said I also had to take Paxil. I asked, why would I need to take Paxil to deal with a tick bite? She said the racing heart indicated anxiety, which needed to be treated. I said, if the bacteria causes anxiety, won't that antibiotics resolve that? She said yes, but in the short term I needed to take Paxil. I asked, if the problem is assumed to be resolving in the short term, and the episodes rare, isn't this a classic use-case for something like Atavan or Klonopin? We discussed it for a long time, and we went round and round in circles, but in the end she made clear that her decision in this matter was final: my choices consisted of taking Paxil or finding another doctor. Since this woman was a well known specialist in treating the kinds of bacteria that one can pick up from tick bites, I decided to take the Paxil. But it struck me as absurd then, and now, that I had to take Paxil to deal with a tick bite.
- d0ugie 12y ago
  I'm with you on the benzos sounding more appropriate, but parenthetically, Paxil does have some very off-label uses for which it is indeed effective, including, for example, treating vasovagal syncope, a fainting condition. http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2998831/ http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2998831/
- ankushnarula 12y ago
  That is the oddest preemptive prescription I've heard of in a long time. "You might feel anxiety - so take Paxil" which (a) is typically recommended for social anxiety and panic disorders and (b) it can take upwards of 4-6 weeks before it becomes effective. I'm also quite sure that the antibiotic will have run its course in far less time. But aside from that, who the hell prescribes an SSRI purely for "possible" anxiety? Yes there are SSNRI, like Effexor and Cymbalta, that address chronic generalized anxiety and panic disorders. But again, we're talking about a long time before there's any measure of efficacy. The correct answer would have been to give you a few tabs of Atavan, Xanax, or Klonopin for the duration of the infection and then only after you experienced any anxiety. Mind boggling
fsk 12y ago
I tried abilify and couldn't stand the side-effects. The drug was so horrible that I decided taking nothing was better and taking my chances at being re-hospitalized.

17 points by luu 12y ago

Sounds like this women thinks she knows better than the entire medical industry based on some anecdotal evidence. Just because something doesn't work for her doesn't make it a scam.

api 12y ago
The studies behind this drug were done by the drug maker itself. You don't see a problem?
- darawk 12y ago
  That's pretty standard practice in the pharmaceuticals industry. Not saying it's a good thing, but it's far from unique to Abilify.
  - deleted 12y ago
    [deleted]
ryanmarsh 12y ago
It sounds like you have a lot of faith in the rigor of the drug manufacturer. if you were to do some research on GSK's treatment of Paxil for adolescents you might come away feeling differently.
rrss1122 12y ago
I don't think it sounds that way at all. In fact, the woman even acknowledge she didn't know as much as she wanted to and was going to do more research into Abilify to be better-informed. The linked article is actually part one of a five-part series. I encourage you to read the other parts before dismissing her "based on some anecdotal evidence".

carbocation 12y ago

If you are not interested in a physician's help, do not seek their help. If you are interested in a physician's help but do not want to take a specific medication or class of medications, things will get a bit more complex, but you should eventually be able to find a specialist who will work within the confines of your requests. However, limiting your treatment options in this way is hopefully not done lightly. Most of the medications that we have to offer do nothing for most people who take them. Abilify is one example, but it's not really unique in this way. If you are interested in a physician's help but do not want to take a specific medication, yet your physician is insistent, it's not helpful to lie to your physician to get out of it. I think it would make sense to seek a second opinion or transfer your care to someone with whom you can negotiate, rather than lying about trying a medication. What's worse (for you) is that when you've finally had enough of this physician's lack of success and you move your care elsewhere, your new physician will think you have already tried a medication that you have not in fact tried, and so they will form an incorrect view of what did and did not work for your condition. In sum, be honest with your doctor about what you suffer, what you take, and what you want; if you feel that you cannot negotiate honestly with your doctor, keep looking until you find someone with whom you are willing to be open.

abecedarius 12y ago
This advice assumes you have the power to say no. If you might get committed, it seems sensible to consider all your options.
- carbocation 12y ago
  The barrier to being "committed" is extremely high. Getting committed generally requires a patient to endorse a desire and a plan to harm themselves, or to temporarily be so disorganized that they cannot safely be in the community. The author does endorse a history of suicidality, but the description of the relationship with Abilify comes across as one where it is being offered in the context of a depression relapse. If she had voiced concerns in her article that she would be committed if she didn't try Abilify, that would be germane, but the article didn't seem to raise such concerns.
- 12y ago

d0ugie 12y ago

Just a few years after being diagnosed bipolar and still new to the game, on a trek to find the right "cocktail" of medicines to keep me both sane and happy, I used Abilify for about a month to contain my mania without "snowing" myself intolerably. It did snow me, it made me depressed, in addition to not working while at work (or socializing at all) I would either leave work or hide in a conference room. Normally the thing to do obviously is discontinue the drug and try another, but it's during these states, at least for me, that one loses focus, self-perception and the nerve and inclination to resolve the situation. Your doctor might argue that what you're feeling is actually normal, what everyone else feels, and you just feel lousy because you're not manic as you had delightfully been before. Just give it three weeks, he says. Maybe he's right, maybe he's not; maybe he doesn't want to deal with trying a different drug at least for a few more weeks to get you to calibrate to the one you don't like. But he's got an advantage in that debate which is that you are chemically subdued. Challenge him and put up a fair fight before letting yourself become convinced one way or the other. You might reach a compromise that works better, like sticking with the drug but at a lower dose. Eventually my shrink put that together and we subbed in another atypical antipsychotic, Zyprexa, which, though like Abilify good for some people and bad for others, and risky, gets the job done, along others in the cocktail, nicely for me. So when starting a drug, especially a neuroleptic or an antimanic, try to remember to be aggressive in monitoring yourself and be vocal when articulating what you think are your negative side effects stemming from the new drug. Don't just show up to your next session and say you're doing fine when you're not, even though a depressive spell makes that a tempting thing to do. And for the rookies, in addition to the above, if you find yourself reluctant to complain about any new drug that has a sexual side effect like impotency or no libido, for God's sake, snap out of that and tell your doctor, otherwise you will not only not resolve those problems but you risk conditioning yourself to distrust medicine and psychiatry which can lead to noncompliance and possibly your downfall. It takes some time, but if you're motivated and smart about it, you've got a good shot at rescuing your captured soul from manic depression, and without killing your soul, or yourself, in the process.

lisa_henderson 12y ago

This is ridiculous: @carbocation: "If you are interested in a physician's help but do not want to take a specific medication or class of medications, things will get a bit more complex" You don't understand the pressure the doctors are under to prescribe these things. A few years ago I was bit by a tick and a few months later I developed severe problems because of that tick bite. One of the problems was that my heart would sometimes race. The doctor put me on antibiotics to deal with the bacteria from the tick bite, but the doctor said I also had to take Paxil. I asked, why would I need to take Paxil to deal with a tick bite? She said the racing heart indicated anxiety, which needed to be treated. I said, if the bacteria causes anxiety, won't that antibiotics resolve that? She said yes, but in the short term I needed to take Paxil. I asked, if the problem is assumed to be resolving in the short term, and the episodes rare, isn't this a classic use-case for something like Atavan or Klonopin? We discussed it for a long time, and we went round and round in circles, but in the end she made clear that her decision in this matter was final: my choices consisted of taking Paxil or finding another doctor. Since this woman was a well known specialist in treating the kinds of bacteria that one can pick up from tick bites, I decided to take the Paxil. But it struck me as absurd then, and now, that I had to take Paxil to deal with a tick bite.

d0ugie 12y ago
I'm with you on the benzos sounding more appropriate, but parenthetically, Paxil does have some very off-label uses for which it is indeed effective, including, for example, treating vasovagal syncope, a fainting condition. http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2998831/ http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2998831/
ankushnarula 12y ago
That is the oddest preemptive prescription I've heard of in a long time. "You might feel anxiety - so take Paxil" which (a) is typically recommended for social anxiety and panic disorders and (b) it can take upwards of 4-6 weeks before it becomes effective. I'm also quite sure that the antibiotic will have run its course in far less time. But aside from that, who the hell prescribes an SSRI purely for "possible" anxiety? Yes there are SSNRI, like Effexor and Cymbalta, that address chronic generalized anxiety and panic disorders. But again, we're talking about a long time before there's any measure of efficacy. The correct answer would have been to give you a few tabs of Atavan, Xanax, or Klonopin for the duration of the infection and then only after you experienced any anxiety. Mind boggling

fsk 12y ago

I tried abilify and couldn't stand the side-effects. The drug was so horrible that I decided taking nothing was better and taking my chances at being re-hospitalized.