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> There are of course moral questions surrounding the use of humiliation and “execution” as a form of public punishment within virtual environments. Is there?

• simplicio 11y ago
  I think there's an obvious practical concern, in that having 325k people watch your execution would probably be seen as an end in itself to whatever the MMORPG version of internet trolls is. So as a deterrent to cheating, this seems like it might be counter-productive. But its pretty funny, and as a PR stunt for Guild Wars, it certainly works as intended.
• Hytosys 11y ago
  Are there not moral questions surrounding humiliation in any other form?
  • nvnvnv 11y ago
    As someone who doesn't play many video games, it seems crazy to me that anyone would find this humiliating.
• A_COMPUTER 11y ago
  Exploring that would have been a more interesting topic for an article, but that would have been hard and would have deprived the author of the ability to assert it as self-evidently true.
• atmosx 11y ago
  Of course. As time goes by and online games become omni-present, along with the profits, social responsibility increases too. I would expect the developer to patch the server/software instead of killing the character for all to see. If the player is a 14 year old Italian, living in Napoli for instance (where the mob is stronger then the state) he just learned about a code of conduct that might stuck there throughout his lifespan leading to some seriously fucked up situations (because real world crime repercussions are different). Some people are seriously hooked up in online gaming. Some of them are kids for Christ's sake. What this company did here is plainly ridiculous. You don't respond to bullies with bullying if you don't want to promote violence. If you respond violently (by humiliating your opponent) you are effectively promoting violence and unethical behaviour, although indirectly. Closing the account and making a statement would be more than enough. What I see here, is just an 'ego' hurt... But the developer's and/or security-whatever-officer's ego should be feeling more for the 'problem' than the 'messenger'...
  • carrotleads 11y ago
    >> You don't respond to bullies with bullying if you don't want to promote violence. err... its a game where violence is the norm right.. or am I mistaken?
  • anigbrowl 11y ago
    If you're playing a game like Guild Wars it's probably because you are already entertained by fantasy violence and skulduggery. I actually think this is a healthy thing, insofar as it shows the character getting punished within the context of the game mechanics. Just blocking the account or whatever is arguably rather like the way we treat people with prison - sending them away to a place where we don't have to look at the consequences. If videogames do inform attitudes and behavior - and I find that thesis questionable - than doing the punishment out of sight arguably teaches people that the appropriate response to social problems is to make the offending parties disappear.
    • atmosx 11y ago
      I don't think that having your account taken over by the admin is in the context of game mechanics.
      • qbrass 11y ago
        The player gave up their rights to the account by cheating. The admin can do whatever they want with abandoned property.
        • pki 11y ago
          The player never had rights to their account, they were merely temporarily permitted access to it by licence. It has been owned by the game since the start.
  • xyzzy123 11y ago
    Well... it's a tricky one. It's a game, right? I credit gamers on the whole with the ability to distinguish fantasy from reality. Since the whole narrative of the game is combat in the first place, with thousands of virtual deaths per hour, you could say it's appropriate in context. It's also arguably more fun - and that's why people play.
• pmontra 11y ago
  Yes. Punishment by death is not a option in many countries of the world so you should think twice before doing it in a game. However fighting and killing people is not an accepted behavior nearly anywhere so by this reasoning nobody should play those games, but we do and we realize the difference between playing and reality. That's what makes that question interesting. I did feel that execution to be different from in play killings, but exactly why? Only because years and years of training myself to think they are different? Don't know yet.
  • taytus 11y ago
    "Punishment by death is not a option in many countries of the world" It's a videogame. Geez!
    • coldtea 11y ago
      How about a videogame where kids compete in murdering their (in-game) parents while they are sleeping with kitchen knifes? Will you be totally OK with letting yours (and other) 6-12 year old kids play that? Would you sleep feeling totally safe at nights? We're talking about "sexist" games conditioning kids that women do this and men do that, etc. How about a game conditioning kids from a young age that executions are OK, something lots of societies frown upon?
      • Pizzalover 11y ago
        What about if you stop speculating and making stuff up?
      • nvnvnv 11y ago
        I guess what seems strange to me is that this particular incident is drawing so much ire, when we already have hugely popular games like GTA and Call of Duty (and I'm sure many more that I'm unaware of) that feature murder as a central element of the game play. I don't contest that video games can have an effect on people and especially children, but this just seems so tame in comparison to what else is already out there.
• bvanslyke 11y ago
  Yes, and that is why I've forwarded this video to Human Rights Watch.
  • steve19 11y ago
    I lost my HOME to some greedy capitalist who bought up our entire street and forced me to sell. She then built hotels only the rich could afford. I ended up bankrupt. Please write to Human Rights Watch about my situation* * It happened during a game of Monopoly.
• venomsnake 11y ago
  There aren't. Some pixels were punished, some pixels died. Unless the person is his avatar ... but in that case there is a big hell awaiting me for playing so much GTA ...
  • unfamiliar 11y ago
    The avatar is something he spent time on and valued. He was cheating in order to take things that others had spent time on and valued. So killing his avatar as a response to these "crimes" is equivalent to taking someones property or money as punishment for theft. I'd hope you'd agree there are moral questions about what constitutes a just and proportional response.
    • hueving 11y ago
      Same thing happens when an account is banned. The work that went into that account is lost.
• coldtea 11y ago
  Would a game with black slaves in a present day setting be OK? With white owners reffering to them as n..., et al? It might raise some moral questions, right? Well, in the same way slavery has been abolished in the US (well, after taking like another 100+ years for Jim Crow laws and seggregation to end in their official form), and such things leave a bad taste in people, other countries have also abolished the death penalty, and see capital punishment in a similar light...
  • zaroth 11y ago
    So this is the standard question of whether some speech can be worse than other speech, which is of course true, raising the question, should we legally distinguish them, which of course, we do. I think a game may incorporate any otherwise illegal or immoral acts without itself raising any moral questions, to the extent that we don't see the actions in the game paralleling actions the player would otherwise commit IRL. Mass murder in a video game isn't seen as soothing the yearning of millions of otherwise mass murders, so there's very little moral angst. Of course it may cross some gray line which makes it hate speech and illegal to sell in certain jurisdictions, but otherwise you are free to not buy it, or organize a boycott of it, and to a great extent this is already happening and perhaps even to some extent actually reducing the commercial market for such games. To the extent that indie or non-profit games integrate objectionable material, policing the game is no different than policing what I write in my own journal. We do certainly regulate the sale and in extraordinary circumstances even the possession of such material.
  • comrh 11y ago
    There is slavery in the Warcraft lore, the humans enslaved the Orcs. Surely such a specific example as yours would raise serious questions, but what about the Orcs?
    • coldtea 11y ago
      Well, it's always about the specifics too. After all executions are also in tons of movies and books (and perhaps games), that doesn't mean it's the same everywhere.
• huac 11y ago
  The (philosophical) question is one of affect. MMORPG's in particular are designed to create a strong sense of attachment between avatar and player - how else will they convince you to keep playing? While it may not seem important to an outsider, to a player, the 'expensive armor' and general appearance of a character creates a sense of attachment known only to its controlling player. As such, a traumatic break of this bond can have a corresponding psychological effect on the player. So yes - humiliating, executing, public shaming of a player can have significant effects on player and as such, we should consider the moral implications.