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My purely observational take on this: moderate drinking itself is the myth: most people who drink daily do not drink in anything resembling moderate amounts, es

My purely observational take on this: moderate drinking itself is the myth: most people who drink daily do not drink in anything resembling moderate amounts, especially as the years go by.

wutbrodo 11y ago
Really? I have plenty of friends who have a glass of wine (or scotch) a night; Are you saying that strikes you as an uncommon phenomenon?
- mildbow 11y ago
  Are you sure it's just a glass? I started like that and atleast in my case, I very much progressed far beyond moderate amounts in the span of 3 years.
  - brianwawok 11y ago
    I also drink moderately. Usually 1 drink per day. Once in a while 0. ~once a month 2. I think the most common forms of drinking are 0 or <too much>, but there are at least some people that moderate (I do).
    - mod 11y ago
      I'm curious as to why you drink one drink per day. For me, drinking is mostly about feeling different from what I normally feel. Having one drink doesn't have any noticeable impact for me, so I virtually never have just one drink except in social situations or when I just think a beer will taste good with a meal, perhaps. I don't know where you draw the line of <too much>, or why you draw it there, but something more like 4 drinks is my norm--though my monthly consumption is likely far smaller than yours. FWIW, compared to my peers & family, I'm definitely drinking "in moderation," even on those nights!
      - wutbrodo 11y ago
        > For me, drinking is mostly about feeling different from what I normally feel. Having one drink doesn't have any noticeable impact for me, so I virtually never have just one drink except in social situations or when I just think a beer will taste good with a meal, perhaps. I'm not the person you asked but I'm in a similar position. Alcohol's effect on the body is as psychological as it is physiological, so even with one drink, I tap a little into those feelings of "unwinding". Throw in the fact that I'll drink beer or scotch that I really enjoy the taste of, and having a single drink is an easy way to have a nice, tasty bit of relaxation after a long day, while avoiding the disruption to my activities that 3+ drinks might entail.
  - mhurron 11y ago
    You're projecting your own lack of self control to everyone else with no evidence to back it up.
    - mildbow 11y ago
      I had a problem with self-awareness, not self-control. I thought I would be fine and could control myself so didn't really think about how much I was getting used to drinking. But it's frighteningly slippery slope. So, I was trying to allude to that. And, self-control isn't binary, it's a continuum: I thought myself as having lots of self-control, but I slipped into drinking way too much by starting with the habit of drinking regularly. Anyway, once I was aware as to how much really I was drinking, I stopped. Cold turkey. So I think that shows at least some self-control. If my comment makes anyone else re-examine exactly how much they drink consistently, I'm happy regardless of how much you think I'm projecting.
  - bmm6o 11y ago
    You should have mentioned that you were extrapolating from a sample size of 1.
    - mildbow 11y ago
      I did :) "atleast in my case"
  - bmm6o 11y ago
    I don't know anything about your situation, but it really depends on what else is going on in your life. If you work a full day (or a little longer) go to the gym or participate in a hobby after work, drive home, cook and eat dinner, watch some TV (or whatever) and go to bed, there's not really time in there for more than 2 or 3 drinks unless you are really pushing yourself. If your routine involves going to happy hour with friends, eating out, taking Uber home, having a nightcap then yeah, you could easily do more than that without really trying.
    - uptownJimmy 11y ago
      "2 or 3 drinks" is NOT moderation.
      - bmm6o 11y ago
        No, but that is at the high end of what is even possible in the scenario I was describing, and is meant to contrast with "far beyond moderate amounts" of parent. Parent seems to think that excessive drinking is the only kind, and I was just pointing out that with reasonable balance in life it's actually difficult for most people to drink to excess.
  - wutbrodo 11y ago
    For the couple of them that I live with (either now or in the past), yea I'm sure. I have a glass of beer or scotch or wine in the evening ~once a week at work, and it doesn't seem hard to imagine people doing it every day (the reason I limit the days I do it has more to do with the fact that I control my nutrition fairly tightly).
    - wutbrodo 11y ago
      That should say "once a week after work".
mildbow 11y ago
At this point I treat it like an excuse you make for yourself. I know I went through the following progression: oh crap I"m drinking too much hard liquor so I need to quit => ugh I really need a drink => I guess I'll have some wine, it's good for you right?
loopbit 11y ago
Most of my family (parents, uncles, grandparents...) have a glass of wine with dinner. Once in a blue moon they'll drink a glass of whiskey or something like that. My anecdotal observations actually show the opposite, most pleople drink less as years go by.
arielweisberg 11y ago
My observation is that my drinking habits match my food habits. Both require careful attention although alcohol unlike food has a built-in negative feedback mechanism. I do a dry week without alcohol every once in a while just to make sure I can. I find doing a dry week without alcohol the same difficulty as dry week without diet Coke. Which is to say I like diet Coke a lot and both require effort. You get things like hey wouldn't a diet Coke be nice, and then have to remember you aren't drinking that now and then the thought will repeat several times in a fairly small time window.
- dpark 11y ago
  > I find doing a dry week without alcohol the same difficulty as dry week without diet Coke. This is similarly true for me. I can abstain from alcohol, but I miss it when I do. The effort is similar to abstaining from, say, ice cream or cookies. I would eat ice cream every night if it didn't feel so unhealthy. I also find that when abstaining from alcohol, I crave ice cream and other sweets far more. Alcohol and sweets seem to satisfy a common underlying craving in me. It's far easier to give up one than both.
  - stephengillie 11y ago
    Beer has numerous vitamins & minerals and fiber. http://www.realbeer.com/edu/health/good-bad.php http://www.realbeer.com/edu/health/good-bad.php And apparently microbrews are healthier than domestic brews.
  - uptownJimmy 11y ago
    When I quit drinking, my sweet tooth grew immensely. That's a pretty common story.
- jotm 11y ago
  Now do a dry month. I am very easily addicted to alcohol, I hate the goddamn thing, I can hold out a week, but a month is much harder and shows exactly how far into it I am...
  - 11y ago
coldtea 11y ago
You'd be surprised. There are places that have a wine culture, where people drink with every meal and that have less alcoholics and over-consumption than other countries without such a culture.
- jotm 11y ago
  That's because they technically are alcoholics. One small "fix" every day makes it unnecessary to binge like it's the last time (because it isn't).
  - DanBC 11y ago
    Alcoholism is not "a drink a day". http://www.nice.org.uk/guidance/cg115 http://www.nice.org.uk/guidance/cg115 > Alcohol dependence is characterised by craving, tolerance, a preoccupation with alcohol and continued drinking in spite of harmful consequences (for example, liver disease or depression caused by drinking). [...] > Alcohol dependence affects 4% of people aged between 16 and 65 in England (6% of men and 2% of women), and over 24% of the English population (33% of men and 16% of women) consume alcohol in a way that is potentially or actually harmful to their health or well-being. Notice how the rates of harmful drinking are much larger than rates for dependant drinking. A person who drinks more than 15 units a day gets community based (outpatient, at home) assisted withdrawal. To get in-patient medical withdrawal a person needs to be drinking 30 units a day. 1 litre of spirits at 40% ABV is 40 units.
    - mod 11y ago
      Far less scientific, and possibly untrue, but I've heard it described as the difference in having a drink every day, and needing a drink a day. If you can't skip that one drink, you've got a problem. (My brother likes to quote that. I think it keeps him believing he's not an alcoholic, which he definitely is. He drinks very heavily 2-4 nights per week, and skips the other nights.)
    - jotm 11y ago
      Yeah, the Russians define alcoholism as 0.5L of vodka a day. How convenient. Doesn't change the fact that habitual drinking is alcoholism and can easily lead to dangerous drinking (1 glass of wine a day may not be dangerous, but it makes it very easy to drink "a bit" more, especially when you're stressed or depressed).

My purely observational take on this: moderate drinking itself is the myth: most people who drink daily do not drink in anything resembling moderate amounts, especially as the years go by.

wutbrodo 11y ago

Really? I have plenty of friends who have a glass of wine (or scotch) a night; Are you saying that strikes you as an uncommon phenomenon?

mildbow 11y ago
Are you sure it's just a glass? I started like that and atleast in my case, I very much progressed far beyond moderate amounts in the span of 3 years.
- brianwawok 11y ago
  I also drink moderately. Usually 1 drink per day. Once in a while 0. ~once a month 2. I think the most common forms of drinking are 0 or <too much>, but there are at least some people that moderate (I do).
  - mod 11y ago
    I'm curious as to why you drink one drink per day. For me, drinking is mostly about feeling different from what I normally feel. Having one drink doesn't have any noticeable impact for me, so I virtually never have just one drink except in social situations or when I just think a beer will taste good with a meal, perhaps. I don't know where you draw the line of <too much>, or why you draw it there, but something more like 4 drinks is my norm--though my monthly consumption is likely far smaller than yours. FWIW, compared to my peers & family, I'm definitely drinking "in moderation," even on those nights!
    - wutbrodo 11y ago
      > For me, drinking is mostly about feeling different from what I normally feel. Having one drink doesn't have any noticeable impact for me, so I virtually never have just one drink except in social situations or when I just think a beer will taste good with a meal, perhaps. I'm not the person you asked but I'm in a similar position. Alcohol's effect on the body is as psychological as it is physiological, so even with one drink, I tap a little into those feelings of "unwinding". Throw in the fact that I'll drink beer or scotch that I really enjoy the taste of, and having a single drink is an easy way to have a nice, tasty bit of relaxation after a long day, while avoiding the disruption to my activities that 3+ drinks might entail.
- mhurron 11y ago
  You're projecting your own lack of self control to everyone else with no evidence to back it up.
  - mildbow 11y ago
    I had a problem with self-awareness, not self-control. I thought I would be fine and could control myself so didn't really think about how much I was getting used to drinking. But it's frighteningly slippery slope. So, I was trying to allude to that. And, self-control isn't binary, it's a continuum: I thought myself as having lots of self-control, but I slipped into drinking way too much by starting with the habit of drinking regularly. Anyway, once I was aware as to how much really I was drinking, I stopped. Cold turkey. So I think that shows at least some self-control. If my comment makes anyone else re-examine exactly how much they drink consistently, I'm happy regardless of how much you think I'm projecting.
- bmm6o 11y ago
  You should have mentioned that you were extrapolating from a sample size of 1.
  - mildbow 11y ago
    I did :) "atleast in my case"
- bmm6o 11y ago
  I don't know anything about your situation, but it really depends on what else is going on in your life. If you work a full day (or a little longer) go to the gym or participate in a hobby after work, drive home, cook and eat dinner, watch some TV (or whatever) and go to bed, there's not really time in there for more than 2 or 3 drinks unless you are really pushing yourself. If your routine involves going to happy hour with friends, eating out, taking Uber home, having a nightcap then yeah, you could easily do more than that without really trying.
  - uptownJimmy 11y ago
    "2 or 3 drinks" is NOT moderation.
    - bmm6o 11y ago
      No, but that is at the high end of what is even possible in the scenario I was describing, and is meant to contrast with "far beyond moderate amounts" of parent. Parent seems to think that excessive drinking is the only kind, and I was just pointing out that with reasonable balance in life it's actually difficult for most people to drink to excess.
- wutbrodo 11y ago
  For the couple of them that I live with (either now or in the past), yea I'm sure. I have a glass of beer or scotch or wine in the evening ~once a week at work, and it doesn't seem hard to imagine people doing it every day (the reason I limit the days I do it has more to do with the fact that I control my nutrition fairly tightly).
  - wutbrodo 11y ago
    That should say "once a week after work".

mildbow 11y ago

At this point I treat it like an excuse you make for yourself. I know I went through the following progression: oh crap I"m drinking too much hard liquor so I need to quit => ugh I really need a drink => I guess I'll have some wine, it's good for you right?

loopbit 11y ago

Most of my family (parents, uncles, grandparents...) have a glass of wine with dinner. Once in a blue moon they'll drink a glass of whiskey or something like that. My anecdotal observations actually show the opposite, most pleople drink less as years go by.

arielweisberg 11y ago

My observation is that my drinking habits match my food habits. Both require careful attention although alcohol unlike food has a built-in negative feedback mechanism. I do a dry week without alcohol every once in a while just to make sure I can. I find doing a dry week without alcohol the same difficulty as dry week without diet Coke. Which is to say I like diet Coke a lot and both require effort. You get things like hey wouldn't a diet Coke be nice, and then have to remember you aren't drinking that now and then the thought will repeat several times in a fairly small time window.

dpark 11y ago
> I find doing a dry week without alcohol the same difficulty as dry week without diet Coke. This is similarly true for me. I can abstain from alcohol, but I miss it when I do. The effort is similar to abstaining from, say, ice cream or cookies. I would eat ice cream every night if it didn't feel so unhealthy. I also find that when abstaining from alcohol, I crave ice cream and other sweets far more. Alcohol and sweets seem to satisfy a common underlying craving in me. It's far easier to give up one than both.
- stephengillie 11y ago
  Beer has numerous vitamins & minerals and fiber. http://www.realbeer.com/edu/health/good-bad.php http://www.realbeer.com/edu/health/good-bad.php And apparently microbrews are healthier than domestic brews.
- uptownJimmy 11y ago
  When I quit drinking, my sweet tooth grew immensely. That's a pretty common story.
jotm 11y ago
Now do a dry month. I am very easily addicted to alcohol, I hate the goddamn thing, I can hold out a week, but a month is much harder and shows exactly how far into it I am...
- 11y ago

coldtea 11y ago

You'd be surprised. There are places that have a wine culture, where people drink with every meal and that have less alcoholics and over-consumption than other countries without such a culture.

jotm 11y ago
That's because they technically are alcoholics. One small "fix" every day makes it unnecessary to binge like it's the last time (because it isn't).
- DanBC 11y ago
  Alcoholism is not "a drink a day". http://www.nice.org.uk/guidance/cg115 http://www.nice.org.uk/guidance/cg115 > Alcohol dependence is characterised by craving, tolerance, a preoccupation with alcohol and continued drinking in spite of harmful consequences (for example, liver disease or depression caused by drinking). [...] > Alcohol dependence affects 4% of people aged between 16 and 65 in England (6% of men and 2% of women), and over 24% of the English population (33% of men and 16% of women) consume alcohol in a way that is potentially or actually harmful to their health or well-being. Notice how the rates of harmful drinking are much larger than rates for dependant drinking. A person who drinks more than 15 units a day gets community based (outpatient, at home) assisted withdrawal. To get in-patient medical withdrawal a person needs to be drinking 30 units a day. 1 litre of spirits at 40% ABV is 40 units.
  - mod 11y ago
    Far less scientific, and possibly untrue, but I've heard it described as the difference in having a drink every day, and needing a drink a day. If you can't skip that one drink, you've got a problem. (My brother likes to quote that. I think it keeps him believing he's not an alcoholic, which he definitely is. He drinks very heavily 2-4 nights per week, and skips the other nights.)
  - jotm 11y ago
    Yeah, the Russians define alcoholism as 0.5L of vodka a day. How convenient. Doesn't change the fact that habitual drinking is alcoholism and can easily lead to dangerous drinking (1 glass of wine a day may not be dangerous, but it makes it very easy to drink "a bit" more, especially when you're stressed or depressed).