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Millennials want a work-life balance
- MichaelCrawford 11y agoI wouldn't regard myself as a "young American" as I have grey hair now. But I am considering emigrating to Europe. I've lived in Italy and in France; I'd like to go back someday. http://www.warplife.com/mdc/resume/ http://www.warplife.com/mdc/resume/ if you have a job for me there. Germany would be cool too, I studied German in high school.
- deleted 11y ago[deleted]
- chrisper 11y agoDo you think there are enough tech jobs in Europe? Because I am from Europe, but studying in the US. Considering going back after I am done here, but many people say the tech scene here is a lot better.
- MichaelCrawford 11y ago"better" here in the sense that there are more startups in the US. I'm not so sure there are more openings in the US; my sense is that Europe has just as many well-established companies. It is uncommon for startups to succeed.
- chrisper 11y agoI guess the salary is also lower in Europe, but the life in general is better even if you make less compared to the US.
- toomuchtodo 11y agoWork remotely. Decouple your salary from your location. https://github.com/lukasz-madon/awesome-remote-job https://github.com/lukasz-madon/awesome-remote-job
- MichaelCrawford 11y agoI've done too much remote work. It can get very lonely. What I'd like is to go into an office, and have coworkers. It's not about creating killer apps by the water cooler; it's about having the company of other human beings in my workplace. I do apply to some remote gigs, but only a very few. What I'd really like is to work in Portland, Oregon.
- _delirium 11y agoCan only speak for Scandinavia, but there is plenty of technology work available, for both locals and anyone who speaks fluent English (it's a plus, but not necessary, to also speak a Scandinavian language). True both at "tech companies" and in many, many places in other parts of industry. For example in Denmark, Maersk (a global shipping/logistics company) hires large numbers of technologists, ranging from straightforward programming jobs, to data-science / operations research / mathematical modeling type roles. They are perhaps uniquely easy for foreigners to work for as well, because they have a workplace language policy that comes close to "English-only" (with so many global offices they really, really do not want anything in Danish, not even email chains, out of fear that it will slow down inter-office communication). The finance industry is another traditional sector that's frequently hiring in tech. The jobs there pay well and are good for work/life balance (no overtime, not much stress), but have a reputation of being staid and boring. You might even have to wear a suit to work (I have seen this explicitly mentioned in job postings). They also tend to require at least a bachelor's degree, and look positively on an MSc. There is a ton of freelance work as well; lots of companies, government agencies, etc. seem to be regularly in need of someone to build an app, redesign a website, build a "serious game" / "training game", analyze some data, etc., and some are even willing to pay well for it. The freelance gigs are harder for foreigners to find, though, unless they speak the language and have developed a good local network. What there is generally less of is: 1) salaries in the $150k+ range; and 2) venture capital. But there are plenty of good normal jobs, and a small mostly-bootstrapped startup scene.
- chrisper 11y agoWell, salaries here are $150k+ because the cost-of-living is crazy. I think even if you make less in Europe you have a better life in general.
- IndianAstronaut 11y ago>salaries here are $150k+ because the cost-of-living is crazy This strikes me as unsustainable. A lot of the basic services will deteriorate quickly since those providing them cannot afford accommodation.
- sandstrom 11y agoThere is a huge shortage in the nordic countries. Quite a lot of people move here (1/4 or more in some companies are from abroad). If you speak good english you'll get by easily. There is a social benefit to learning the local language, but not necessary for getting hired (i.e. no need to know the language in advance). I think northern European countries are doing pretty well, but the southern ones get most of the headlines, because they are in trouble. I.e. as long as you move to a well-functioning, growing country the outlook is great.
- MichaelCrawford 11y agoI have a close friend here in the US who is a Swedish immigrant and a web designer. Maybe she has some connections I could use. My hesitation in applying to work in Northern Europe is that I lived in Newfoundland and Nova Scotia when I was married to a Canadian woman. I'm not real sure I have the temerity to face all that snow again. :-/
- amag 11y agoThere's typically very little snow in the tech hubs of Scandinavia (Stockholm, Copenhagen, Oslo, Gothenburg and Malmo) even in the midst of winter. If snow is your biggest concern then moving here shouldn't be an issue ;).
- chrisper 11y agoDo you mean shortage in jobs or shortage in workers?
- sandstrom 11y agoShortage in skilled workers [tech sector; software]
- Red_Tarsius 11y agoI'm a 22yo Italian. I will move to the West Coast as soon as I can. Healthcare and university aside, I don't understand the appeal of Italy. The air you breath here is filled with cynicism and hopelessness. The state is not business friendly. You can find history, good weather and nature in other places. The deep south has been destroyed by mafia's garbage management. Please, read USA army's findings on Naples. http://www.nytimes.com/2014/01/30/world/europe/beneath-southern-italy-a-deadly-mob-legacy.html http://www.nytimes.com/2014/01/30/world/europe/beneath-south...
- MichaelCrawford 11y agoI have many fond memories of living in Formia while my father served on the USS Springfield in Gaeta. I've been to Naples many times. I was but six years old then; it was not until many years after we returned, that my father explained the widespread corruption to me. What I remember are beautiful young women who would toss chocolate soccer balls to me, from their apartment balconies.
- s73v3r 11y ago"The state is not business friendly" 90% of times when people say this, they mean that business is not allowed to run roughshod over anything it wants.
- beachstartup 11y agoin italy this means the 5% of businesses that "unofficially sponsor" the government are allowed to run roughshod over anything they want.
- dang 11y agoPlease don't editorialize titles when submitting stories to HN. (Submitted title was "40% of young Americans considering emigrating due to work-life balance concerns".) https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html
- taco_emoji 11y agoI don't see how quoting a statistic from the article is "editorializing"...
- dang 11y agoBy editorializing we mean putting your own spin on the article or framing it a particular way for the reader. Cherry-picking one detail and making that the title is not only editorializing in this sense, it may be the most powerful form of it. If you want to say what you think is important about an article, the place to do that is in the comments, so your view is on a level playing field with everyone else's. On HN, being the one to submit an article doesn't confer any special rights to frame or interpret it for the audience.
- jonawesomegreen 11y agoDoesn't everyone want work-life balance? I don't think this is something restricted to millennials.
- derefr 11y agoNo; workaholics are plentiful, especially among startup founders. Some people, when asked what they would do with an extra ten non-burnt-out hours in the day, truly respond "get another ten hours of work done!"
- toomuchtodo 11y agoWhich is a fine attitude to have, as long as you don't impose it on others and work regulations don't cater to that choice. We should not all be slaves for the minority of workaholics. I don't mind that you hustle, I'd rather have a beer at the beach with my wife, work 4 days a week, and lead a more simple life. "The days are long but the years are short."
- cgag 11y agoFounders don't count as workers in my mind. For a founder, work is the hobby. No one wishes they could be working for someone else 10 more hours and plenty of people want to work on productive things in their off hours.
- s73v3r 11y agoThat's different, as they directly reap the benefits of doing that work. If I were to stay another 10 hours at my job, I would receive precisely dick, as I'm sure most of us would.
- toomuchtodo 11y agoBaby Boomers lived through the most prosperous period in American history. They have roots. They're tied to the US. Millennials have gotten shit on repeatedly, between the housing crisis, the student loan crisis (looming), and a subpar job market. They have less ties and more mobility.
- nugget 11y agoActually I just want to be able to afford a nice condo in a major city, which precludes work-life balance for awhile.
- rifung 11y agoDo you get paid by the hour? If not, why does having work life balance mean you can't have a nice condo in a major city?
- scott_karana 11y agoI would really appreciate it if HN started flagging posts with "Millenials" in the title.
- AndrewKemendo 11y agoIf I was in a job I hated and had to do it to live, then that is one thing, in which case I would try to spend as little time working as possible. I think most people are in this situation, so it makes sense in that regard. As a general ethos though, I don't get it. I don't want to be doing something that doesn't fully engage me. I quit my cushy government job last year to go full in on our startup and while the hours are something like 12-15 hour days, it doesn't feel like work most of the time. So in this sense I don't really get the idea of "work-life balance" because the work I am doing is what I want my life to be. It seems like the idea of having your "life's work" is a luxury or alternatively something that slightly insane people have. In the cases where it works and the vision is big enough you get these outsized figures who do amazing things. Why anyone would choose otherwise - I don't really understand.
- Sharlin 11y agoThere's a continuum of positions between "hating your job" and "living and breathing your job". Many of us like our jobs very much thank you, but we also have other things we want to do. Besides, not everybody can be productive doing something 12 hours a day (or even 8!) even if we love it when we do. I love dancing but I still only do it a few hours per week. You should try not to generalize from a single point of data (yourself).
- AndrewKemendo 11y agoNo generalization, I'm simply stating that I don't understand it. Agree with you however that the desire to work is probably normally distributed.