6 ms·

So, if I understand this, there is still a human in the truck, they're just not driving most of the time?

by sbarre 12y ago

pgeorgi 12y ago
yes, for example for all parts of the route that are not on a highway. They have the numbers that it's less stressful work, which they'll no doubt manage to compensate for soon enough with more work. They can also collect data that may help automating larger parts of the route. Or evidence that machines are more reliable than humans (making the case for building these things without a driver's seat)
- sbarre 12y ago
  Interesting.. I always assumed the first iteration of this would be on separated lanes that ran alongside highways.. Maybe once they go full drone (never go full drone) that's what they will have to do, depending on public opinion..
  - Avshalom 12y ago
    I believe cost per mile for a lane of highway starts in the millions range and can get towards the billion range going through cities. Thats assuming you can even get the land at any price.
- jotm 12y ago
  Basically, these drivers get first seat tickets to watching their jobs slowly being taken away from them by machines.
  - gambiting 12y ago
    Can't the same thing be said about pilots though? They spend something like 1% of the total flight time actually controlling the plane, everything else is automated. Yet we can't actually get rid of them,because you always need to have someone who knows what to do in case of an emergency. I imagine it will be the same with truck drivers.
    - msandford 12y ago
      Yeah, it's just a lot worse in the case of a truck than a plane. In a plane for 99% of the flight you've got MINUTES to deal with errors and avert a crash, since you're several miles up in the air. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Deadstick_landing http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Deadstick_landing When you're in a truck everything seems to be OK until some kind of non-obvious corner case comes up and BOOM! "you" (the truck) just crashed into a car and killed a family. Not a job I'd want since you probably have all the liability for the problems and none of the time to react that you'd want. Watching a truck drive itself -- if you're on call to jump in and try and avert a disaster -- is probably more stressful than just driving it yourself.
    - dEnigma 12y ago
      A truck could just stop at the shoulder when something goes wrong and wait for assistance, while a plane still has to land, which is anything but easy, depending on the circumstances.
      - gambiting 12y ago
        Like the other person pointed out - if you have a problem with a plane and the autopilot disengages, a pilot has minutes(sometimes several) to figure out what is going on and land the plane safely. If an automated truck is driving on a highway and one of the tyres blows out, the time between autopilot disengaging and the truck moving into opposite lane and colliding with someone head-on is measured in seconds. Obviously, there is no guarantee that a human driver would handle it better, but it's a real problem with automated cars.
        jotm 12y ago
        Wait, but with the right sensors, a computer could respond way faster and better than a human, provided it has the right programming on what to do in specific conditions. That data could be aggregated from crash tests and actual drivers around the world.
        12y ago
  - johnreddington 12y ago
    If you think the only role of a truck driver is to steer and press the pedals you are terribly mistaken. That is the easy part to automate.
    - jchendy 12y ago
      What's the hard part?
      - masklinn 12y ago
        Navigating the endpoint/dock/whatever.
        michaelbuckbee 12y ago
        This makes me think that we'll end up with truck drivers who are more like tugboat captains. They know their distribution center and as automated trucks come in and park on the edge, they then do the fiddly work of getting it lined up at the right time to the right loading bay.
        tombrossman 12y ago
        I disagree. That could be automated exactly like 'self-parking cars' which has been a feature in some luxury cars for a while now. The most challenging part mentally is accurate trip planning. Drivers try to predict exactly when to move to ensure an on-time delivery and have too many variables to do this with high accuracy. Then they will typically falsify logs and run illegally to make the logs match the date and time stamped documentation (toll reciepts, times stamped on delivery reciepts, etc). I think that you'll find large trucking companies are happy to keep using cheap expendable labor, who will willingly bend the rules, as this gives the companies the plausible deniability they want.
    - Shivetya 12y ago
      for many package companies, think UPS/FedEx the automation of the long haul combined with automated yard facilities will certain come to bear. The loading and unloading occurs once the trailer is parked and that parking and moving to staging can be automated as well; providing the union agrees. however many truck drivers usually are tasked with loading and unloading their trailers, most likely to occur when flat beds are picking up special cargo. Movers also tend to be part of the work crew as well. More than one friend has ventured in trucking only to return when they realized the amount of hard labor, if not dangerous labor they faced.
  - sbarre 12y ago
    Bah.. re-train them into knowledge workers while they sit there.. Provide them with a wireless workstation and they can do all kinds of other interesting work for the company while they sit there for hours on end.. Better than staring at the road..
    - pavel_lishin 12y ago
      Speaking as someone who is sometimes on that road in a vehicle that is much smaller than a truck, I would strongly prefer that they keep staring at that road, and everything else on it.
      - Dylan16807 12y ago
        I'm in such a vehicle too, and I think you're crazy to want that. If they spend 6 hours unnecessarily staring at the road while autopilot is on, they're not going to be anywhere near peak driving condition when they do take over.
    - jotm 12y ago
      Heh, yeah they could definitely learn some other profession while monitoring the truck. But it would probably be against the rules or downright illegal...
    - enraged_camel 12y ago
      Brilliant idea! Just give them one of these and a laptop and let them learn some coding on Codecademy while on the road: http://www.amazon.com/AutoExec-Wheelmate-Steering-Attachable-Surface/dp/B00E1D1GY6/ http://www.amazon.com/AutoExec-Wheelmate-Steering-Attachable...
  - pjc50 12y ago
    In terms of what order to automate things away, truck driving isn't quite as bad as fruit picking or the more dangerous bits of the construction industry, but it's demanding, lonely, and unhealthy. I don't know how the US regulates awakeness, but in the EU there are strict limits on how long truck drivers can be on shift for. If they can sleep in the middle long-distance sections and drive the narrower local roads at the end, that reduces the need for sleep stops. Or maybe the secret is that it's being remote controlled by players of the inexplicably popular Euro Truck Simulator.
    - jotm 12y ago
      | Or maybe the secret is that it's being remote controlled by players of the inexplicably popular Euro Truck Simulator. That would explain the mystery of titles like Forklift Simulator, Firetruck Simulator, Farming Simulator, Train Simulator and Car Mechanic Simulator :-)
      - lfowles 12y ago
        Surgeon Simulator and Goat Simulator to extend this into the ridiculous :)
    - crymer11 12y ago
      Maximum of 11 hours driving after 10 consecutive hours off-duty, and no driving after 14 hours of coming on duty.
    - ams6110 12y ago
      it's demanding, lonely, and unhealthy That's one point of view. Some people love it.
- mason240 12y ago
  What I am really looking forward too is RVs with this technology. Simply load up the family, drive to freeway, and let the RV take over, and hang out in the back for 8 hours while going to your destination.
mitchell_h 12y ago
This is also what farm equipment automation is currently taking. A human drives the tractor/combine/* into the field hits "Go" on a screen and turns around to watch what the implement is doing.
tootie 12y ago
This has just unlocked a dream for me. Imagine having a remote working kind of job (like, say a programmer). You could pretty much just do your job from the cabin of a long-haul truck pausing only occasionally to top up on fuel or drive through messy conditions the computer can't handle. It's an introvert dream come true.
- pinaceae 12y ago
  this will go in the other direction though - drones are remotely controlled, fleets of trucks will be as well. one operator, 25 trucks, only need to take over for special tasks. depended on network coverage, yes, but most trucks move between well covered, urbanized areas.

So, if I understand this, there is still a human in the truck, they're just not driving most of the time?

by sbarre 12y ago

So, if I understand this, there is still a human in the truck, they're just not driving most of the time?

yes, for example for all parts of the route that are not on a highway. They have the numbers that it's less stressful work, which they'll no doubt manage to compensate for soon enough with more work. They can also collect data that may help automating larger parts of the route. Or evidence that machines are more reliable than humans (making the case for building these things without a driver's seat)

sbarre 12y ago
Interesting.. I always assumed the first iteration of this would be on separated lanes that ran alongside highways.. Maybe once they go full drone (never go full drone) that's what they will have to do, depending on public opinion..
- Avshalom 12y ago
  I believe cost per mile for a lane of highway starts in the millions range and can get towards the billion range going through cities. Thats assuming you can even get the land at any price.
jotm 12y ago
Basically, these drivers get first seat tickets to watching their jobs slowly being taken away from them by machines.
- gambiting 12y ago
  Can't the same thing be said about pilots though? They spend something like 1% of the total flight time actually controlling the plane, everything else is automated. Yet we can't actually get rid of them,because you always need to have someone who knows what to do in case of an emergency. I imagine it will be the same with truck drivers.
  - msandford 12y ago
    Yeah, it's just a lot worse in the case of a truck than a plane. In a plane for 99% of the flight you've got MINUTES to deal with errors and avert a crash, since you're several miles up in the air. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Deadstick_landing http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Deadstick_landing When you're in a truck everything seems to be OK until some kind of non-obvious corner case comes up and BOOM! "you" (the truck) just crashed into a car and killed a family. Not a job I'd want since you probably have all the liability for the problems and none of the time to react that you'd want. Watching a truck drive itself -- if you're on call to jump in and try and avert a disaster -- is probably more stressful than just driving it yourself.
  - dEnigma 12y ago
    A truck could just stop at the shoulder when something goes wrong and wait for assistance, while a plane still has to land, which is anything but easy, depending on the circumstances.
    - gambiting 12y ago
      Like the other person pointed out - if you have a problem with a plane and the autopilot disengages, a pilot has minutes(sometimes several) to figure out what is going on and land the plane safely. If an automated truck is driving on a highway and one of the tyres blows out, the time between autopilot disengaging and the truck moving into opposite lane and colliding with someone head-on is measured in seconds. Obviously, there is no guarantee that a human driver would handle it better, but it's a real problem with automated cars.
      - jotm 12y ago
        Wait, but with the right sensors, a computer could respond way faster and better than a human, provided it has the right programming on what to do in specific conditions. That data could be aggregated from crash tests and actual drivers around the world.
        12y ago
- johnreddington 12y ago
  If you think the only role of a truck driver is to steer and press the pedals you are terribly mistaken. That is the easy part to automate.
  - jchendy 12y ago
    What's the hard part?
    - masklinn 12y ago
      Navigating the endpoint/dock/whatever.
      - michaelbuckbee 12y ago
        This makes me think that we'll end up with truck drivers who are more like tugboat captains. They know their distribution center and as automated trucks come in and park on the edge, they then do the fiddly work of getting it lined up at the right time to the right loading bay.
      - tombrossman 12y ago
        I disagree. That could be automated exactly like 'self-parking cars' which has been a feature in some luxury cars for a while now. The most challenging part mentally is accurate trip planning. Drivers try to predict exactly when to move to ensure an on-time delivery and have too many variables to do this with high accuracy. Then they will typically falsify logs and run illegally to make the logs match the date and time stamped documentation (toll reciepts, times stamped on delivery reciepts, etc). I think that you'll find large trucking companies are happy to keep using cheap expendable labor, who will willingly bend the rules, as this gives the companies the plausible deniability they want.
  - Shivetya 12y ago
    for many package companies, think UPS/FedEx the automation of the long haul combined with automated yard facilities will certain come to bear. The loading and unloading occurs once the trailer is parked and that parking and moving to staging can be automated as well; providing the union agrees. however many truck drivers usually are tasked with loading and unloading their trailers, most likely to occur when flat beds are picking up special cargo. Movers also tend to be part of the work crew as well. More than one friend has ventured in trucking only to return when they realized the amount of hard labor, if not dangerous labor they faced.
- sbarre 12y ago
  Bah.. re-train them into knowledge workers while they sit there.. Provide them with a wireless workstation and they can do all kinds of other interesting work for the company while they sit there for hours on end.. Better than staring at the road..
  - pavel_lishin 12y ago
    Speaking as someone who is sometimes on that road in a vehicle that is much smaller than a truck, I would strongly prefer that they keep staring at that road, and everything else on it.
    - Dylan16807 12y ago
      I'm in such a vehicle too, and I think you're crazy to want that. If they spend 6 hours unnecessarily staring at the road while autopilot is on, they're not going to be anywhere near peak driving condition when they do take over.
  - jotm 12y ago
    Heh, yeah they could definitely learn some other profession while monitoring the truck. But it would probably be against the rules or downright illegal...
  - enraged_camel 12y ago
    Brilliant idea! Just give them one of these and a laptop and let them learn some coding on Codecademy while on the road: http://www.amazon.com/AutoExec-Wheelmate-Steering-Attachable-Surface/dp/B00E1D1GY6/ http://www.amazon.com/AutoExec-Wheelmate-Steering-Attachable...
- pjc50 12y ago
  In terms of what order to automate things away, truck driving isn't quite as bad as fruit picking or the more dangerous bits of the construction industry, but it's demanding, lonely, and unhealthy. I don't know how the US regulates awakeness, but in the EU there are strict limits on how long truck drivers can be on shift for. If they can sleep in the middle long-distance sections and drive the narrower local roads at the end, that reduces the need for sleep stops. Or maybe the secret is that it's being remote controlled by players of the inexplicably popular Euro Truck Simulator.
  - jotm 12y ago
    | Or maybe the secret is that it's being remote controlled by players of the inexplicably popular Euro Truck Simulator. That would explain the mystery of titles like Forklift Simulator, Firetruck Simulator, Farming Simulator, Train Simulator and Car Mechanic Simulator :-)
    - lfowles 12y ago
      Surgeon Simulator and Goat Simulator to extend this into the ridiculous :)
  - crymer11 12y ago
    Maximum of 11 hours driving after 10 consecutive hours off-duty, and no driving after 14 hours of coming on duty.
  - ams6110 12y ago
    it's demanding, lonely, and unhealthy That's one point of view. Some people love it.
mason240 12y ago
What I am really looking forward too is RVs with this technology. Simply load up the family, drive to freeway, and let the RV take over, and hang out in the back for 8 hours while going to your destination.

mitchell_h 12y ago

This is also what farm equipment automation is currently taking. A human drives the tractor/combine/* into the field hits "Go" on a screen and turns around to watch what the implement is doing.

tootie 12y ago

This has just unlocked a dream for me. Imagine having a remote working kind of job (like, say a programmer). You could pretty much just do your job from the cabin of a long-haul truck pausing only occasionally to top up on fuel or drive through messy conditions the computer can't handle. It's an introvert dream come true.

pinaceae 12y ago
this will go in the other direction though - drones are remotely controlled, fleets of trucks will be as well. one operator, 25 trucks, only need to take over for special tasks. depended on network coverage, yes, but most trucks move between well covered, urbanized areas.