10 ms·

It seems from the article that the best way to handle this is to uninstall all the trash that comes with a new computer (or hell, reinstall windows from scratch

It seems from the article that the best way to handle this is to uninstall all the trash that comes with a new computer (or hell, reinstall windows from scratch). Do I need Lenovo's power management tools? No. Do I need its Wifi connection manager? No. Windows has all this stuff already and it works really, really well.

ams6110 12y ago
Where do you get the installation media? I haven't seen more than a "system recovery disk" shipped with a consumer machine in at least a decade. And I don't know about Lenovo, but I know that on the Dell laptops I last dealt with could never get a stock Windows 7 install to be stable without downloading Dell's drivers for the video card at minimum.
- aylons 12y ago
  My Lenovo came with a recovery partition from which I could reinstall Windows. However, I suppose it would also automatically reinstall crapware, which is beside the point. The solution was to download an official Windows 8 copy from Microsoft's website - the Windows installer will get the license key from the EFI. Not as good as a recovery disk, as you will need to download and install manually all drivers, but vetting everything is part of the point. EDIT: for those looking, this is the link from where I downloaded the Windows 8 binary from Microsoft website: http://windows.microsoft.com/en-us/windows-8/create-reset-refresh-media http://windows.microsoft.com/en-us/windows-8/create-reset-re...
  - kbenson 12y ago
    I wasn't aware you could get vanilla windows install media for OEM license keys. Does this work with older windows versions as well? I have a Windows 7 Laptop that I would love to do this with,
    - smwht 12y ago
      It's a new feature with windows 8[1]. Unofficially you can install windows 7 using the OEM key (note this is not the key printed on the sticker on your laptop) and then activate it. [1] http://arstechnica.com/gadgets/2015/02/save-yourself-from-your-oems-bad-decisions-with-a-clean-install-of-windows-8-1/ http://arstechnica.com/gadgets/2015/02/save-yourself-from-yo...
  - ams6110 12y ago
    Hm, I thought the OEM license keys were not usable to install a retail version of Windows. Has it changed, or have I been wrong all along?
    - smwht 12y ago
      Windows 8+ feature, see reply to kbenson above.
- chrisper 12y ago
  You can use http://www.microsoft.com/en-us/software-recovery http://www.microsoft.com/en-us/software-recovery to download a Windows ISO.
- slayed0 12y ago
  You can download windows 7/8 iso's directly from microsoft with your product key: http://www.microsoft.com/en-us/software-recovery http://www.microsoft.com/en-us/software-recovery You would of course need to grab drivers from the manufacturer as well, but you can skip all of the bloatware (and borderline spy/malware) that comes with a retail machine.
  - minot 12y ago
    I tried this and when I reinstalled I got all the bloatware back. It was pretty frustrating because I don't know what I did incorrectly. I ended up putting a Microsoft Windows 8.1 iso on a flash drive using rufus. https://rufus.akeo.ie/ https://rufus.akeo.ie/ I don't understand why Microsoft won't just make the latest build of its operating system publicly accessible in ISO format for anyone to download. I mean I still have to enter a serial number and activate. Why not just let me download from a trusted source without jumping through a bunch of hoops?
    - callesgg 12y ago
      They do put it on their website not publicly you need to login with a Microsoft(live or whatever) account.
    - slayed0 12y ago
      They used to allow this (as recently as a few months ago). You could download any windows 7 iso and then would have to activate after install. They even provide a utility for making bootable flash drives from an iso (presumably for installing win7 without needing a disc). I have to imagine they stopped offering the images due to the high level of piracy. With an image from microsoft and an easy to find, spy-ware free, super easy to use executable (I'll avoid mentioning names on here), it was way too easy to pirate windows. Also, not sure why you still got bloatware with this method. Manufacturers typically offer all of the required drivers individually online. The drivers themselves are bloatware-free but maybe you got roped into installing a software pack for the machine or something?
      - 12y ago
- basch 12y ago
  Always use an OEM Windows Disc. For Business Laptops they make it very easy. For Thinkpad, Latitude, and Precision laptops it's only a couple clicks. Then install ThinkVantage System Update http://support.lenovo.com/us/en/documents/ht080136 http://support.lenovo.com/us/en/documents/ht080136 or Dell Command Update http://en.community.dell.com/techcenter/enterprise-client/w/wiki/7534.dell-command-update http://en.community.dell.com/techcenter/enterprise-client/w/... Be careful of The ThinkVantage System Update, you dont need all the suggested installations.
tsomctl 12y ago
On a Thinkpad T500, you do need Lenovos special power management tools. Otherwise, the cpu fan will never spin up and your processor will overheat.
- gkop 12y ago
  If that was the case with the T500, that's exceptional. My T520 and T530 have no problem spinning up their CPU fans in all sorts of configurations missing Lenovo's utilities.
  - minot 12y ago
    I have a Yoga Y 510 p. Windows barked at me after a few weeks of installing Windows 8.1 from scratch. It said I should get the latest version of the power utility from Lenovo. The power utility lets me spin up the fan which apparently can help get rid of dust. It also lets me select battery health mode as opposed to battery performance mode. When in battery health mode, the power supply does not charge the battery beyond about 60% and will not start charging before the power gets drained to about below 40%. As far as I know, the power utility is the only thing I installed from Lenovo. The graphics drivers from nVidia came directly through Windows Update. Should I be concerned? Should I uninstall the power management tools?
    - throwawayaway 12y ago
      Windows told you to install a power utility from Lenovo? How would such a message come about? Do Lenovo pay Microsoft to put in error messages? Did it look for the answer to your problem online?
      - nandhp 12y ago
        I haven't used Windows much recently, but wouldn't it just be delivered as a driver through Windows Update?
        cmdrfred 12y ago
vog 12y ago
> reinstall windows from scratch That will usually "restore" the crap as well. You might be better off installing a Free Software operating system from scratch. (e.g. OpenBSD for the security fanatics, or any other *BSD, or Solaris, or some Linux distro.) Even better: Buy a laptop without any operating system. However, in some cases this may make the laptop more expensive. (e.g. what if Lenovo gets paid by crap providers for pre-installing?)
- kbenson 12y ago
  I think "from scratch" is meant to imply a virginal source of windows, not the Lenovo supplied version.
- IanDrake 12y ago
  Killing all disk partitions and starting over gives you a clean MS Windows install with no junk. For those who don't know how, buy only "Signature Edition" PCs. http://www.microsoftstore.com/store/msusa/en_US/cat/categoryID.69916600 http://www.microsoftstore.com/store/msusa/en_US/cat/category...
- TazeTSchnitzel 12y ago
  > That will usually "restore" the crap as well. Depends. Some ship drivers and such on a separate disc, others don't.
yuncun 12y ago
What is the motivation for Lenovo to keep making that software? I can't imagine it would be cheap for them, and I find it hard to believe people buy their products for the preinstalled software; Are there other reasons?
- diminoten 12y ago
  I'd bet the folks who make those kinds of decisions think that people do buy their hardware at least in part due to their software offerings. Patently absurd, I know, but when you drink enough Kool-Aid...
- hackuser 12y ago
  A guess: Lenovo is trying to differentiate the experience of using their computers from that of competitors. When all vendors sell products running the same OS, with essentially the same keyboard, screen, processor, etc., their products become commodities and margins disappear; consumers will buy whatever costs least. If consumers associate a special experience with your product, you might be able to charge a little more or at least have some brand loyalty.
  - yellowapple 12y ago
    For me, though, the "special experience" is hardware reliability and ease of maintenance, which is why I typically buy either Dell or Lenovo and avoid HP like the plague. Reliable hardware is the real differentiator for me, and I'm sure I'm not alone (though probably part of a minority of shoppers). One could also differentiate by focusing on a custom-tailored UI/UX. This is a bit harder to do with Windows than it is with Linux (including Android), though.
    - hackuser 12y ago
      > the "special experience" is hardware reliability and ease of maintenance, which is why I typically buy either Dell or Lenovo and avoid HP like the plague. I have the same priorities, but how do you know which vendor's hardware is more reliable? All we have is anecdotal experiences. FWIW my experience is that HP's business product lines are most reliable, and Dell's business lines have relatively many quality issues. The HP Elite laptops have exceptional serviceability (better than any I've seen -- find a video and just look at how the laptop case opens for service) and tech support. > I'm sure I'm not alone (though probably part of a minority of shoppers). Consumers buy on price, but the priorities of business IT departments are similar to yours: reliability, serviceability, and support; the costs of downtime and skilled labor for repairs far exceed the savings from buying cheap machines. Each vendor sells consumer (e.g., Dell Inspiron), and business (e.g., Dell Latitude) product lines. Maybe try shopping the products they sell to corporate IT; those match your priorites. They cost more, but you get what you pay for.
brudgers 12y ago
I just bought a used five year old ThinkPad X201 Touch. One of the things I did with Lenovo's [new] upgradesoftware was upgrade the BIOS. Their software also offers fine grained control over lots of other proprietary hardware...e.g. the Watcom digitizer and security chip. It also offers fine grained control over the trackpad and function keys. And the great thing is that Lenovo is keeping all that stuff current to support an ancient-in-internet years piece of hardware. This isn't HP consumer machine crapware...this is the stuff that costs Lenovo money not something they get paid to pre-install.
drzaiusapelord 12y ago
We buy Lenovo. Its great hardware. We put in a custom image. The default image is a nightmare. I can't stress how terrible their applications are, even by the low standards of OEM default Windows apps. I hope Win10 brings in more control from MS. The status quo really sucks.
ebbv 12y ago
Two things: 1) This particular malware may be removable by reformatting and installing from a clean copy of Windows (which may not even be available without a separate purchase, since it's likely that the recovery disc that comes with the laptop contains the same default software installation.) 2) Reformatting and reinstalling to remove the malware requires knowing that there's a problem, which you wouldn't have if the articles about it hadn't come out.
- yellowapple 12y ago
  From years of experience dealing with Windows preinstallations, I've defaulted to assuming that vendor-preinstalled operating systems contain malware/adware/etc. and installing a fresh copy of Windows (or better yet, GNU/Linux or one of the BSDs). While it's probably unreasonable to assume that all users can/should do this, it's certainly good advice, and it means that I've yet to be burned.
dheera 12y ago
In my case, when I received my Lenovo the first thing I did after opening the box was unscrew the case and change the drive for an SSD. Before even powering it on once. But yeah, if I used the default HDD, I'd at least reformat it first thing. I'm a Linux user though, so I'd have to reformat it anyway, but I'd still reformat it even if I were a Windows user. Microsoft, Google, Apple, Ubuntu, et al. all make decent OSes that are designed to, um, work. I don't get why manufacturers don't get this simple fact and always have to tamper with stuff. For the less-technical people out there, can't we have a "Nexus" sort of PC manufacturer who prides themselves in selling with ONLY vanilla OSes and as-standard-as-possible hardware components?
- joshstrange 12y ago
  It's the same problem with Android currently which is that when every manufacturer is using the same OS they have to find a way to differentiate. In Android this means custom skins, custom apps, and the like. On Windows this means "free" antivirus, custom apps, and the like. It would be nice if they all just completed on hardware but then it's really a race to the bottom.
  - _xander 12y ago
    Their perspective is that they're adding value through software (i.e. without spending more money on hardware). Not that I agree with this line of reasoning...
    - bediger4000 12y ago
      Are you certain of this perspective or is this your best guess? I see people say this type of thing all the time, and I don't see any official statements corroborating them.
      - _xander 12y ago
        I picked it up from here: http://www.strategyand.pwc.com/global/home/what-we-think/reports-white-papers/article-display/hardware-goes-software-manufacturers-think http://www.strategyand.pwc.com/global/home/what-we-think/rep... It's still only one sort of business strategy. Not every hardware company is necessarily pursuing this line.
ZanyProgrammer 12y ago
Several years ago I tried to do a fresh Windows install on a ThinkPad Edge (their cheapo wanna be TPs), and I found out that I needed their power management software. I can't remember off the top of my head what the problem was, but it was quickly solved by downloading Lenovo's management tools. I just wanted things to work, so I didn't investigate further why my nilla install of Windows didnt' work.
- _xander 12y ago
  I encountered a similar problem with my Lenovo U410. Vanilla windows drivers simply don't play ball with certain hardware features.

ams6110 12y ago

Where do you get the installation media? I haven't seen more than a "system recovery disk" shipped with a consumer machine in at least a decade. And I don't know about Lenovo, but I know that on the Dell laptops I last dealt with could never get a stock Windows 7 install to be stable without downloading Dell's drivers for the video card at minimum.

aylons 12y ago
My Lenovo came with a recovery partition from which I could reinstall Windows. However, I suppose it would also automatically reinstall crapware, which is beside the point. The solution was to download an official Windows 8 copy from Microsoft's website - the Windows installer will get the license key from the EFI. Not as good as a recovery disk, as you will need to download and install manually all drivers, but vetting everything is part of the point. EDIT: for those looking, this is the link from where I downloaded the Windows 8 binary from Microsoft website: http://windows.microsoft.com/en-us/windows-8/create-reset-refresh-media http://windows.microsoft.com/en-us/windows-8/create-reset-re...
- kbenson 12y ago
  I wasn't aware you could get vanilla windows install media for OEM license keys. Does this work with older windows versions as well? I have a Windows 7 Laptop that I would love to do this with,
  - smwht 12y ago
    It's a new feature with windows 8[1]. Unofficially you can install windows 7 using the OEM key (note this is not the key printed on the sticker on your laptop) and then activate it. [1] http://arstechnica.com/gadgets/2015/02/save-yourself-from-your-oems-bad-decisions-with-a-clean-install-of-windows-8-1/ http://arstechnica.com/gadgets/2015/02/save-yourself-from-yo...
- ams6110 12y ago
  Hm, I thought the OEM license keys were not usable to install a retail version of Windows. Has it changed, or have I been wrong all along?
  - smwht 12y ago
    Windows 8+ feature, see reply to kbenson above.
chrisper 12y ago
You can use http://www.microsoft.com/en-us/software-recovery http://www.microsoft.com/en-us/software-recovery to download a Windows ISO.
slayed0 12y ago
You can download windows 7/8 iso's directly from microsoft with your product key: http://www.microsoft.com/en-us/software-recovery http://www.microsoft.com/en-us/software-recovery You would of course need to grab drivers from the manufacturer as well, but you can skip all of the bloatware (and borderline spy/malware) that comes with a retail machine.
- minot 12y ago
  I tried this and when I reinstalled I got all the bloatware back. It was pretty frustrating because I don't know what I did incorrectly. I ended up putting a Microsoft Windows 8.1 iso on a flash drive using rufus. https://rufus.akeo.ie/ https://rufus.akeo.ie/ I don't understand why Microsoft won't just make the latest build of its operating system publicly accessible in ISO format for anyone to download. I mean I still have to enter a serial number and activate. Why not just let me download from a trusted source without jumping through a bunch of hoops?
  - callesgg 12y ago
    They do put it on their website not publicly you need to login with a Microsoft(live or whatever) account.
  - slayed0 12y ago
    They used to allow this (as recently as a few months ago). You could download any windows 7 iso and then would have to activate after install. They even provide a utility for making bootable flash drives from an iso (presumably for installing win7 without needing a disc). I have to imagine they stopped offering the images due to the high level of piracy. With an image from microsoft and an easy to find, spy-ware free, super easy to use executable (I'll avoid mentioning names on here), it was way too easy to pirate windows. Also, not sure why you still got bloatware with this method. Manufacturers typically offer all of the required drivers individually online. The drivers themselves are bloatware-free but maybe you got roped into installing a software pack for the machine or something?
    - 12y ago
basch 12y ago
Always use an OEM Windows Disc. For Business Laptops they make it very easy. For Thinkpad, Latitude, and Precision laptops it's only a couple clicks. Then install ThinkVantage System Update http://support.lenovo.com/us/en/documents/ht080136 http://support.lenovo.com/us/en/documents/ht080136 or Dell Command Update http://en.community.dell.com/techcenter/enterprise-client/w/wiki/7534.dell-command-update http://en.community.dell.com/techcenter/enterprise-client/w/... Be careful of The ThinkVantage System Update, you dont need all the suggested installations.

tsomctl 12y ago

On a Thinkpad T500, you do need Lenovos special power management tools. Otherwise, the cpu fan will never spin up and your processor will overheat.

gkop 12y ago
If that was the case with the T500, that's exceptional. My T520 and T530 have no problem spinning up their CPU fans in all sorts of configurations missing Lenovo's utilities.
- minot 12y ago
  I have a Yoga Y 510 p. Windows barked at me after a few weeks of installing Windows 8.1 from scratch. It said I should get the latest version of the power utility from Lenovo. The power utility lets me spin up the fan which apparently can help get rid of dust. It also lets me select battery health mode as opposed to battery performance mode. When in battery health mode, the power supply does not charge the battery beyond about 60% and will not start charging before the power gets drained to about below 40%. As far as I know, the power utility is the only thing I installed from Lenovo. The graphics drivers from nVidia came directly through Windows Update. Should I be concerned? Should I uninstall the power management tools?
  - throwawayaway 12y ago
    Windows told you to install a power utility from Lenovo? How would such a message come about? Do Lenovo pay Microsoft to put in error messages? Did it look for the answer to your problem online?
    - nandhp 12y ago
      I haven't used Windows much recently, but wouldn't it just be delivered as a driver through Windows Update?
      - cmdrfred 12y ago

vog 12y ago

> reinstall windows from scratch That will usually "restore" the crap as well. You might be better off installing a Free Software operating system from scratch. (e.g. OpenBSD for the security fanatics, or any other *BSD, or Solaris, or some Linux distro.) Even better: Buy a laptop without any operating system. However, in some cases this may make the laptop more expensive. (e.g. what if Lenovo gets paid by crap providers for pre-installing?)

kbenson 12y ago
I think "from scratch" is meant to imply a virginal source of windows, not the Lenovo supplied version.
IanDrake 12y ago
Killing all disk partitions and starting over gives you a clean MS Windows install with no junk. For those who don't know how, buy only "Signature Edition" PCs. http://www.microsoftstore.com/store/msusa/en_US/cat/categoryID.69916600 http://www.microsoftstore.com/store/msusa/en_US/cat/category...
TazeTSchnitzel 12y ago
> That will usually "restore" the crap as well. Depends. Some ship drivers and such on a separate disc, others don't.

yuncun 12y ago

What is the motivation for Lenovo to keep making that software? I can't imagine it would be cheap for them, and I find it hard to believe people buy their products for the preinstalled software; Are there other reasons?

diminoten 12y ago
I'd bet the folks who make those kinds of decisions think that people do buy their hardware at least in part due to their software offerings. Patently absurd, I know, but when you drink enough Kool-Aid...
hackuser 12y ago
A guess: Lenovo is trying to differentiate the experience of using their computers from that of competitors. When all vendors sell products running the same OS, with essentially the same keyboard, screen, processor, etc., their products become commodities and margins disappear; consumers will buy whatever costs least. If consumers associate a special experience with your product, you might be able to charge a little more or at least have some brand loyalty.
- yellowapple 12y ago
  For me, though, the "special experience" is hardware reliability and ease of maintenance, which is why I typically buy either Dell or Lenovo and avoid HP like the plague. Reliable hardware is the real differentiator for me, and I'm sure I'm not alone (though probably part of a minority of shoppers). One could also differentiate by focusing on a custom-tailored UI/UX. This is a bit harder to do with Windows than it is with Linux (including Android), though.
  - hackuser 12y ago
    > the "special experience" is hardware reliability and ease of maintenance, which is why I typically buy either Dell or Lenovo and avoid HP like the plague. I have the same priorities, but how do you know which vendor's hardware is more reliable? All we have is anecdotal experiences. FWIW my experience is that HP's business product lines are most reliable, and Dell's business lines have relatively many quality issues. The HP Elite laptops have exceptional serviceability (better than any I've seen -- find a video and just look at how the laptop case opens for service) and tech support. > I'm sure I'm not alone (though probably part of a minority of shoppers). Consumers buy on price, but the priorities of business IT departments are similar to yours: reliability, serviceability, and support; the costs of downtime and skilled labor for repairs far exceed the savings from buying cheap machines. Each vendor sells consumer (e.g., Dell Inspiron), and business (e.g., Dell Latitude) product lines. Maybe try shopping the products they sell to corporate IT; those match your priorites. They cost more, but you get what you pay for.

brudgers 12y ago

I just bought a used five year old ThinkPad X201 Touch. One of the things I did with Lenovo's [new] upgradesoftware was upgrade the BIOS. Their software also offers fine grained control over lots of other proprietary hardware...e.g. the Watcom digitizer and security chip. It also offers fine grained control over the trackpad and function keys. And the great thing is that Lenovo is keeping all that stuff current to support an ancient-in-internet years piece of hardware. This isn't HP consumer machine crapware...this is the stuff that costs Lenovo money not something they get paid to pre-install.

drzaiusapelord 12y ago

We buy Lenovo. Its great hardware. We put in a custom image. The default image is a nightmare. I can't stress how terrible their applications are, even by the low standards of OEM default Windows apps. I hope Win10 brings in more control from MS. The status quo really sucks.

ebbv 12y ago

Two things: 1) This particular malware may be removable by reformatting and installing from a clean copy of Windows (which may not even be available without a separate purchase, since it's likely that the recovery disc that comes with the laptop contains the same default software installation.) 2) Reformatting and reinstalling to remove the malware requires knowing that there's a problem, which you wouldn't have if the articles about it hadn't come out.

yellowapple 12y ago
From years of experience dealing with Windows preinstallations, I've defaulted to assuming that vendor-preinstalled operating systems contain malware/adware/etc. and installing a fresh copy of Windows (or better yet, GNU/Linux or one of the BSDs). While it's probably unreasonable to assume that all users can/should do this, it's certainly good advice, and it means that I've yet to be burned.

dheera 12y ago

In my case, when I received my Lenovo the first thing I did after opening the box was unscrew the case and change the drive for an SSD. Before even powering it on once. But yeah, if I used the default HDD, I'd at least reformat it first thing. I'm a Linux user though, so I'd have to reformat it anyway, but I'd still reformat it even if I were a Windows user. Microsoft, Google, Apple, Ubuntu, et al. all make decent OSes that are designed to, um, work. I don't get why manufacturers don't get this simple fact and always have to tamper with stuff. For the less-technical people out there, can't we have a "Nexus" sort of PC manufacturer who prides themselves in selling with ONLY vanilla OSes and as-standard-as-possible hardware components?

joshstrange 12y ago
It's the same problem with Android currently which is that when every manufacturer is using the same OS they have to find a way to differentiate. In Android this means custom skins, custom apps, and the like. On Windows this means "free" antivirus, custom apps, and the like. It would be nice if they all just completed on hardware but then it's really a race to the bottom.
- _xander 12y ago
  Their perspective is that they're adding value through software (i.e. without spending more money on hardware). Not that I agree with this line of reasoning...
  - bediger4000 12y ago
    Are you certain of this perspective or is this your best guess? I see people say this type of thing all the time, and I don't see any official statements corroborating them.
    - _xander 12y ago
      I picked it up from here: http://www.strategyand.pwc.com/global/home/what-we-think/reports-white-papers/article-display/hardware-goes-software-manufacturers-think http://www.strategyand.pwc.com/global/home/what-we-think/rep... It's still only one sort of business strategy. Not every hardware company is necessarily pursuing this line.

ZanyProgrammer 12y ago

Several years ago I tried to do a fresh Windows install on a ThinkPad Edge (their cheapo wanna be TPs), and I found out that I needed their power management software. I can't remember off the top of my head what the problem was, but it was quickly solved by downloading Lenovo's management tools. I just wanted things to work, so I didn't investigate further why my nilla install of Windows didnt' work.

_xander 12y ago
I encountered a similar problem with my Lenovo U410. Vanilla windows drivers simply don't play ball with certain hardware features.