4 ms·

> Once I was illegally searched because the officer "smelled weed" It's tacitly understood that "smelled weed" is one of several simply accepted pretenses that

> Once I was illegally searched because the officer "smelled weed" It's tacitly understood that "smelled weed" is one of several simply accepted pretenses that give an officer the ability manufacture probable cause out of thin air.

toomuchtodo 12y ago
I wonder what they'll switch to next when marijuana has been legalized.
- madaxe_again 12y ago
  "You know what you did" is a common one I've had from cops (ex USSR States mostly) looking for a bribe that evidently works pretty well.
- robotresearcher 12y ago
  There's a classic TV sketch on this topic: 'Constable Savage' from 'Not the 9 O'Clock News' circa 1980. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BO8EpfyCG2Y https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BO8EpfyCG2Y
sjtgraham 12y ago
It's simply wrong that smelling something is probable cause because of the potential for abuse.
- maxerickson 12y ago
  If you can't reasonably rely on the testimony of police officers, you have a really big problem. Like, require they take photos and they can just plant the evidence before they take the photo. Compare and contrast a dank whiff with gun fire. I'd like police to be able to respond to the sound of gun fire. I don't see how it is less problematic than responding to the smell of marijuana.
  - mikeash 12y ago
    Standards should be (and, I believe, usually are) different for crimes that pose an imminent danger to the public.
    - maxerickson 12y ago
      I read the concern to be with the reliability of their testimony. I'm fine with the idea that simply smelling marijuana should not be probable cause. I'm not fine with the idea that it should not be probable cause because it creates an avenue for abuse of power. The checks on abuse of power should happen at a higher level in the system than making rules about what an officer can reliably testify about.
      - mikeash 12y ago
        Isn't the whole idea of requiring probable cause to prevent abuse of power? If we fully trusted the police then we wouldn't bother with any of this stuff. We'd allow police to search people at any time for any reason. But we don't trust them that far, so we put limits on what they can do. They can't do some searches without probable cause. Others require a warrant. The line shifts a bit in the case of imminent danger, because we prefer to take more of a risk with the cops than the criminals in that case. A smell of marijuana doesn't indicate a life-threatening situation so we're back to the whole abuse-of-power bit for why the police can't just search people entirely at will.
        maxerickson 12y ago
        Probable cause just outlines a set of situations where use of power is authorized. It is the line between authorized and unauthorized use of power more than it is a check on abuse. If an officer pulls someone over just for the heck of it, their lack of probable cause isn't going to stop them from illegally searching the vehicle. I see what you are saying about limits on power and trust being mixed together, if someone is literally 100% trustworthy there is no need to limit their power. I still think it is reasonable to consider whether police can reliably testify that they smelled something (this should at least be a goal for a just system) separately from the question of whether they should be allowed to act upon smelling something.
- copsarebastards 12y ago
  If there were a bunch of attacks in my area where someone is throwing bleach in people's eyes (this has happened), I'd want the police to be able to treat the smell of bleach as probable cause. The problem is that marijuana shouldn't be illegal in the first place. But it is illegal, and it's also common enough that if a cop smells weed, it's believable. Part of the problem here is that we make too many things illegal, and since cops have some choice in which laws they enforce when, it gives cops far too much power.
EStudley 12y ago
In Massachusetts the smell of marijuana isn't enough for police to search your car. This was changed recently (summer 2014). http://www.bostonglobe.com/metro/2014/07/09/sjc-odor-unburnt-marijuana-cannot-justify-police-search-person-car/OpBSEn0BJrZlBwJSMQpbvO/story.html http://www.bostonglobe.com/metro/2014/07/09/sjc-odor-unburnt...

toomuchtodo 12y ago

I wonder what they'll switch to next when marijuana has been legalized.

madaxe_again 12y ago
"You know what you did" is a common one I've had from cops (ex USSR States mostly) looking for a bribe that evidently works pretty well.
robotresearcher 12y ago
There's a classic TV sketch on this topic: 'Constable Savage' from 'Not the 9 O'Clock News' circa 1980. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BO8EpfyCG2Y https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BO8EpfyCG2Y

sjtgraham 12y ago

It's simply wrong that smelling something is probable cause because of the potential for abuse.

maxerickson 12y ago
If you can't reasonably rely on the testimony of police officers, you have a really big problem. Like, require they take photos and they can just plant the evidence before they take the photo. Compare and contrast a dank whiff with gun fire. I'd like police to be able to respond to the sound of gun fire. I don't see how it is less problematic than responding to the smell of marijuana.
- mikeash 12y ago
  Standards should be (and, I believe, usually are) different for crimes that pose an imminent danger to the public.
  - maxerickson 12y ago
    I read the concern to be with the reliability of their testimony. I'm fine with the idea that simply smelling marijuana should not be probable cause. I'm not fine with the idea that it should not be probable cause because it creates an avenue for abuse of power. The checks on abuse of power should happen at a higher level in the system than making rules about what an officer can reliably testify about.
    - mikeash 12y ago
      Isn't the whole idea of requiring probable cause to prevent abuse of power? If we fully trusted the police then we wouldn't bother with any of this stuff. We'd allow police to search people at any time for any reason. But we don't trust them that far, so we put limits on what they can do. They can't do some searches without probable cause. Others require a warrant. The line shifts a bit in the case of imminent danger, because we prefer to take more of a risk with the cops than the criminals in that case. A smell of marijuana doesn't indicate a life-threatening situation so we're back to the whole abuse-of-power bit for why the police can't just search people entirely at will.
      - maxerickson 12y ago
        Probable cause just outlines a set of situations where use of power is authorized. It is the line between authorized and unauthorized use of power more than it is a check on abuse. If an officer pulls someone over just for the heck of it, their lack of probable cause isn't going to stop them from illegally searching the vehicle. I see what you are saying about limits on power and trust being mixed together, if someone is literally 100% trustworthy there is no need to limit their power. I still think it is reasonable to consider whether police can reliably testify that they smelled something (this should at least be a goal for a just system) separately from the question of whether they should be allowed to act upon smelling something.
copsarebastards 12y ago
If there were a bunch of attacks in my area where someone is throwing bleach in people's eyes (this has happened), I'd want the police to be able to treat the smell of bleach as probable cause. The problem is that marijuana shouldn't be illegal in the first place. But it is illegal, and it's also common enough that if a cop smells weed, it's believable. Part of the problem here is that we make too many things illegal, and since cops have some choice in which laws they enforce when, it gives cops far too much power.

EStudley 12y ago

In Massachusetts the smell of marijuana isn't enough for police to search your car. This was changed recently (summer 2014). http://www.bostonglobe.com/metro/2014/07/09/sjc-odor-unburnt-marijuana-cannot-justify-police-search-person-car/OpBSEn0BJrZlBwJSMQpbvO/story.html http://www.bostonglobe.com/metro/2014/07/09/sjc-odor-unburnt...