7 ms·

> Police officers are trained to be aggressive, assertive, controlling, and correct in all situations. Well maybe this should change. I am a night owl and som

> Police officers are trained to be aggressive, assertive, controlling, and correct in all situations. Well maybe this should change. I am a night owl and sometimes take walks at night. I don't drink, I'm completely sober. Nevertheless I've been stopped and patted down a few times. Once I was illegally searched because the officer "smelled weed" (I favor legalization, but I haven't smoked since college--I don't like how it makes me feel). And I'm a white guy in my late 20s who dresses like a businessy nerd--if I weren't who knows whether I'd be in jail for some made-up charge by now. Cops in the US have a combative relationship with the people they serve and that has to change. They work for us--we need to get them under control. Stopping medical professionals from doing their jobs puts the lives of civilians in danger. Cops should be required to defer to medical professionals unequivocally.

cesarbs 11y ago
My wife and I have been in the US for 2.5 years and we had a surreal experience while taking a walk at night once. I must say, we were walking around late at night because we love being in a safe area were we can finally do that - back in our home country, we simply couldn't do that because of the absurd crime rate. So we're walking around downtown just enjoying a nice summer night, when a police car shows up in a corner. No big deal, it's actually nice to see them around. We walk a block and there's the police car again... and it was like that for basically every block we walked until we got home. Fortunately we were not stopped, but we were definitely being followed and watched. We come from Latin America but we're both white (German ancestry). I can't help but think the experience would likely have been a little worse if we had more typical Latino looks.
- sjtgraham 11y ago
  What was it about your experience that made you assume negative intent? Have you considered that maybe their presence had nothing to do with you, or perhaps couples had been targeted by robbers in the area that night and they were merely ensuring you didn't become another crime statistic? I dislike authority and cops more than most, but I also like evidence and I don't feel like this supports the implied harassment.
  - cesarbs 11y ago
    1) Everything I hear about American police in the news and from people I meet. Ever since I got here I'm amazed how much I hear the "never talk to the police" advice. I don't know how accurate that is but because I hear it so much I'm afraid of even greeting them when I'm walking around. 2) The whole thing made us feel very uncomfortable. Sure, they could have been looking out for us... But if that was the case, why didn't they just pull over and tell us that? Our relaxing evening walk became tense with us wondering why the police was watching us.
- fapjacks 11y ago
  You were a white couple walking downtown at night. I want to live in the utopia of Star Trek, but the reality of our world is that you were probably being shadowed by the police because they were looking out for you. You likely experienced the reason many downtowns are so "safe" these days. I know many police officers personally because of my past in the military (guard), and this is not uncommon, for police to circle around if they see someone that looks like they're up to no good, or if they look like an inviting target. I really wish we could live in a world where racism wasn't so rampant, but...
  - TelmoMenezes 11y ago
    Somehow Europe manages to have very safe cities without this sort of behaviour from the cops. I think the Americans have been slow-cooked into finding the police state apparatus to be normal and justifiable.
    - fapjacks 11y ago
      I travel to Europe often, and yes, it is a mentality. I think also the opposite is true, however: Criminals will not commit crime if they have the mindset that a police presence is particularly heavy in an area. Europeans don't need guns to keep them safe, but in America, we "need" our guns to keep us safe. It's absolutely a mindset, you're right. But that doesn't mean it doesn't work.
      - tertius 11y ago
        I'm not an American so I don't feel a gun will "keep me safe" i.e. I won't be attacked or house broken. Though when that happens I can defend myself much better than without. Is it generally that people feel they won't be victims to crime if they're armed?
        logfromblammo 11y ago
        Americans have a pithy sound-bite-style quote for that: "When seconds count, the police are only minutes away." This is a large and diverse country. There are significant areas of land where the median time until an emergency first-responder will appear is a multiple of the median duration of a typical criminal (or dangerous wildlife) encounter. With the right planning, I could probably walk coast to coast unarmed, without ever feeling unsafe. But if I took my hotel budget and bought a tent and sidearm instead, I wouldn't need to do nearly as much research ahead of time. Besides that, not all dangerous animals are human enough to know the law. I don't typically go about armed, but several people that I know do. They consider it to not just be protection for themselves, but for their entire community, like vaccinations. The weapon does not prevent the crime, but it does suggest a more favorable outcome.
wwweston 11y ago
> Once I was illegally searched because the officer "smelled weed" It's tacitly understood that "smelled weed" is one of several simply accepted pretenses that give an officer the ability manufacture probable cause out of thin air.
- toomuchtodo 11y ago
  I wonder what they'll switch to next when marijuana has been legalized.
  - madaxe_again 11y ago
    "You know what you did" is a common one I've had from cops (ex USSR States mostly) looking for a bribe that evidently works pretty well.
  - robotresearcher 11y ago
    There's a classic TV sketch on this topic: 'Constable Savage' from 'Not the 9 O'Clock News' circa 1980. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BO8EpfyCG2Y https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BO8EpfyCG2Y
- sjtgraham 11y ago
  It's simply wrong that smelling something is probable cause because of the potential for abuse.
  - maxerickson 11y ago
    If you can't reasonably rely on the testimony of police officers, you have a really big problem. Like, require they take photos and they can just plant the evidence before they take the photo. Compare and contrast a dank whiff with gun fire. I'd like police to be able to respond to the sound of gun fire. I don't see how it is less problematic than responding to the smell of marijuana.
    - mikeash 11y ago
madaxe_again 11y ago
I did a stint working in Virginia, used to walk a few miles out of town to home after a night's boozing, as unlike seemingly most Americans I won't get behind the wheel drunk, taxis were a rip-off at that time of night, and nothing like a five mile stroll to shake off a hangover. Long story short, was there for two months, walked home maybe five times, got stopped and id'd twice. Both occasions they were really confused as to not only why someone would walk "so far" to get home, but how. They were totally fine taking my student id as a drivers license when I got pulled over speeding though. Ho hum.
electic 11y ago
What city was this in?
- copsarebastards 11y ago
  Philadelphia.
knodi123 11y ago
I went for a walk late at night, trying to clear my head after a rough breakup. I was just wearing my pajamas, and was walking the sidewalks just a few blocks from home. I turned down a nearby alley in order to head back home, and was half way down it when a creepy-looking car with no lights on squeaked to a stop and blocked off the end of the alley. I froze and looked at it, and that's when the spotlight came on, and I realized it was a cop. Unfortunately, my thought process went "oh, I must look suspicious. But wait, I don't have any ID. Maybe they didn't see me yet...", so I hopped into a driveway, out of sight of the cop. Oops, bad move. They went full lights-and-siren, and burned rubber down the alley towards me. I took off running towards my house, zigzagging between houses to break line of sight. When I got back home, I hopped my fence and went in the back door, just because it was the closest entrance. Double-unfortunately, apparently the cops decided I was a serious threat, and several minutes later I looked out the window to a police car in my own alley, following a cop with a german shepherd. The dog circled my property, and then barked at the fence, so the cops kicked my gate down and searched my back yard. They jiggled the doors and windows, found them locked, and decided to call it a night. I got up early the next morning to fix my gate, and my parents never found out about it.
- stronglikedan 11y ago
  For the future, or maybe you know by now, you are not required to carry an ID while walking anywhere in public. However, you are required to identify yourself in most places, if asked by an officer of the law, usually by giving your full name.
  - comeandgetme 11y ago
    You are only required to identify yourself if they have reasonable suspicion that you've committed, or are about to commit, a crime. Of course, that all gets sorted out post-arrest if you don't cooperate, which sucks for us.
    - Navarr 11y ago
      In the described event, particularly a person fleeing an officer before the officer even talks to them - I would not be surprised if they considered that reasonable suspicion.
ams6110 11y ago
It may surprise you to know that cops often deal with truly violent, aggressive individuals and often place their lives in danger. Being assertive and controlling is a proven way to keep situations under control as much as possible when they don't know who they're dealing with. The cop-hate is really getting out of control. Inner-city blacks kill a lot more black people than cops do, yet we bend over backwards to not be judgemental of them. Yes racism is bad. But automatic hatred of cops is really driven by the same kind of thinking.
- untog 11y ago
  Having lived in a few different (western, first world) countries, US cops have been by far and away the rudest, most aggressive and entitled I have encountered. It is possible to deal with truly violent and aggressive individuals without always being violent and aggressive yourself.
- dragonwriter 11y ago
  > Inner-city blacks kill a lot more black people than cops do, yet we bend over backwards to not be judgemental of them. I haven't encountered many, if any, people who bend over backwards to not be judgmental of inner city blacks who kill other black people, least of all the people who like to point to the number of inner city blacks who kill black people as a means of dismissing specific criticism aggressive behavior by cops.
- copsarebastards 11y ago
  > It may surprise you to know that cops often deal with truly violent, aggressive individuals and often place their lives in danger. Violent, aggressive EMTs trying to treat a patient? And a huge portion of the people jailed in the US are jailed for non-violent crimes. If you can't deal differently with violent, aggressive people than with people who are clearly non-violent and not aggressive, you have no fucking business being a cop. Having lived and worked in some pretty nasty areas, I've dealt with some violent, aggressive individuals, yet every day I manage to restrain myself from wrongly accusing people of crimes and beating up innocent people. I'm not sure why you think this is hard. > The cop-hate is really getting out of control. I think I have a right to hate people who are violent and aggressive. > Inner-city blacks kill a lot more black people than cops do, yet we bend over backwards to not be judgemental of them. No, I hate inner-city blacks who kill people just as much as I hate cops who kill people. I just don't talk about it much, because we don't seem to have much problem giving inner-city blacks who kill people the jail time they deserve. > But automatic hatred of cops is really driven by the same kind of thinking. I don't automatically hate cops. It just so happens that cops frequently go out of their way to give me reason to hate them.
mc32 11y ago
In my experience, in countries with heavy firearm regulation, cops are more mellow. Maybe it's just a coincidence, but that's been my experience. The aggressiveness in the police along with the adversarial attitude needs to change, it's been unhealthy for a while, on the other hand crime is down, but no one can agree why. Is it police aggressiveness, tougher sentencing, removal of pollutants from environment, aging population.... There are several explanations, but none are completely convincing. I think some day we'll have to reconsider the interpretation of the second amendment, short of that, change people's perception of firearms. Households with firearms suffer more injury due to accidents than they prevent via deterrence. So, we need to change the attitude so that owning firearms are frowned upon as much as being a tax dodger is frowned upon. It's hard to avoid feeling that being preemptively aggressive when you know there are people either crazy enough or desperate or foolish enough to use a firearm against a cop and that having your guard down can result in premature departure. But if the likelihood of guns circulating was low, you could give the public the benefit of doubt.
- hackuser 11y ago
  Per a recent NY Times article: "No police officer in England has died from a weapon attack during the past two years, according to the most recent published data, and none have been involved in fatal shootings during that period." http://www.nytimes.com/2015/05/05/us/police-start-to-reconsider-longstanding-rules-on-using-force.html http://www.nytimes.com/2015/05/05/us/police-start-to-reconsi...
- CWuestefeld 11y ago
  Households with firearms suffer more injury due to accidents than they prevent via deterrence. I think you're mistaking correlation for causation. Consider: a household that's more likely to be in danger is also more likely to have a gun. For example, a drug dealer is frequently in dangerous situations, and so is likely to have a gun. He's also more likely to be injured or killed than your or I. Is that because he owns that gun? It seems unlikely. Many more legitimate professions and activities carry risks like that. So simply showing that correlation isn't anywhere near sufficient to demonstrate that the gun owner would be safer without his gun.
rsync 11y ago
"Stopping medical professionals from doing their jobs puts the lives of civilians in danger." One of the first, and most important things we can do is to change the language we are using. Above, you spoke of civilians as different from - separate from - police officers. Please stop doing this. All police officers are civilians - just like you and I.[1] If you are not in the process of being arrested you are the peer in every way of the police officer. Don't forget it. [1] With the obvious exception of the reader of this comment who is an active duty soldier/sailor.
- TallGuyShort 11y ago
  Civilians just like you and I, but with elevated rights to carry firearms and demonstrable bias in their favour in the legal system.
- griffinmahon 11y ago
  I like your distinction, and for the same reason think that there shouldn't be separate laws for the assault of a police officer -- there should just be laws for assault.
- copsarebastards 11y ago
  The concept of what you're saying is nice, but I don't know if I agree. In an ideal society, yes, cops would just be other citizens. But talking about cops as if we existed in that ideal world doesn't do anything to move us toward that ideal world. The fact is, cops are largely above the law and incarcerate thousands of people annually, disproportionately along racial and economic lines, and frequently for non-violent crimes. An average citizen can't walk up to another person and put them in jail, basically at will. A cop can: all it takes is planting a little evidence. Cops in America aren't ordinary citizens, they're threats to ordinary citizens, and speaking wishfully about them isn't going to fix that.
- abandonliberty 11y ago
  Dejure you are correct, but not defacto. The ability of an officer to arrest someone and openly carry firearms (Canadian) sets them apart even if they're not using them, particularly as they can abuse their powers. Police should be held to a higher standard to compensate for this, and the civilian legal system is poorly equipped to handle them.
wkimeria 11y ago
Yeah, I've had a number of WWB/DWB stops, and in one case a cop pointed a gun at me and forced me to the ground. My crime, jogging in the majority white neighborhood I lived in (there was no active crime in progress, the cop decided that I was 'suspicious' and even after finding nothing on me (I was dressed in sneakers, shorts, t shirt since I was you know, jogging) he proceeded to run my license multiple times and ask me repeatedly what I was doing in the area (apparently 'I live here' and 'jogging' were not satisfactory answers). In the end I got my license thrown back at me with a sarcastic 'have a nice day'. I have had very few police interactions where it was not clear that the cops viewed their role as dominating and using overwhelming force. U.S cops seem to have a very militaristic mindset which is really bizarre, considering compared to other jobs, being a cop is not that dangerous.In fact, the one case that stood out to me was one where a cop acted the way he should have. I got rear-ended on New Years Eve (as luck would have it, right in front of the State Trooper Barracks). The State Trooper who responded was amazing. He checked on everyone, found that the passenger of the idiot who rear ended me had a broken nose (she had no seatbelt on), called an ambulance, squared everything. He had a truly calming presence. That is how cops should be.

cesarbs 11y ago

My wife and I have been in the US for 2.5 years and we had a surreal experience while taking a walk at night once. I must say, we were walking around late at night because we love being in a safe area were we can finally do that - back in our home country, we simply couldn't do that because of the absurd crime rate. So we're walking around downtown just enjoying a nice summer night, when a police car shows up in a corner. No big deal, it's actually nice to see them around. We walk a block and there's the police car again... and it was like that for basically every block we walked until we got home. Fortunately we were not stopped, but we were definitely being followed and watched. We come from Latin America but we're both white (German ancestry). I can't help but think the experience would likely have been a little worse if we had more typical Latino looks.

sjtgraham 11y ago
What was it about your experience that made you assume negative intent? Have you considered that maybe their presence had nothing to do with you, or perhaps couples had been targeted by robbers in the area that night and they were merely ensuring you didn't become another crime statistic? I dislike authority and cops more than most, but I also like evidence and I don't feel like this supports the implied harassment.
- cesarbs 11y ago
  1) Everything I hear about American police in the news and from people I meet. Ever since I got here I'm amazed how much I hear the "never talk to the police" advice. I don't know how accurate that is but because I hear it so much I'm afraid of even greeting them when I'm walking around. 2) The whole thing made us feel very uncomfortable. Sure, they could have been looking out for us... But if that was the case, why didn't they just pull over and tell us that? Our relaxing evening walk became tense with us wondering why the police was watching us.
fapjacks 11y ago
You were a white couple walking downtown at night. I want to live in the utopia of Star Trek, but the reality of our world is that you were probably being shadowed by the police because they were looking out for you. You likely experienced the reason many downtowns are so "safe" these days. I know many police officers personally because of my past in the military (guard), and this is not uncommon, for police to circle around if they see someone that looks like they're up to no good, or if they look like an inviting target. I really wish we could live in a world where racism wasn't so rampant, but...
- TelmoMenezes 11y ago
  Somehow Europe manages to have very safe cities without this sort of behaviour from the cops. I think the Americans have been slow-cooked into finding the police state apparatus to be normal and justifiable.
  - fapjacks 11y ago
    I travel to Europe often, and yes, it is a mentality. I think also the opposite is true, however: Criminals will not commit crime if they have the mindset that a police presence is particularly heavy in an area. Europeans don't need guns to keep them safe, but in America, we "need" our guns to keep us safe. It's absolutely a mindset, you're right. But that doesn't mean it doesn't work.
    - tertius 11y ago
      I'm not an American so I don't feel a gun will "keep me safe" i.e. I won't be attacked or house broken. Though when that happens I can defend myself much better than without. Is it generally that people feel they won't be victims to crime if they're armed?
      - logfromblammo 11y ago
        Americans have a pithy sound-bite-style quote for that: "When seconds count, the police are only minutes away." This is a large and diverse country. There are significant areas of land where the median time until an emergency first-responder will appear is a multiple of the median duration of a typical criminal (or dangerous wildlife) encounter. With the right planning, I could probably walk coast to coast unarmed, without ever feeling unsafe. But if I took my hotel budget and bought a tent and sidearm instead, I wouldn't need to do nearly as much research ahead of time. Besides that, not all dangerous animals are human enough to know the law. I don't typically go about armed, but several people that I know do. They consider it to not just be protection for themselves, but for their entire community, like vaccinations. The weapon does not prevent the crime, but it does suggest a more favorable outcome.

wwweston 11y ago

> Once I was illegally searched because the officer "smelled weed" It's tacitly understood that "smelled weed" is one of several simply accepted pretenses that give an officer the ability manufacture probable cause out of thin air.

toomuchtodo 11y ago
I wonder what they'll switch to next when marijuana has been legalized.
- madaxe_again 11y ago
  "You know what you did" is a common one I've had from cops (ex USSR States mostly) looking for a bribe that evidently works pretty well.
- robotresearcher 11y ago
  There's a classic TV sketch on this topic: 'Constable Savage' from 'Not the 9 O'Clock News' circa 1980. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BO8EpfyCG2Y https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BO8EpfyCG2Y
sjtgraham 11y ago
It's simply wrong that smelling something is probable cause because of the potential for abuse.
- maxerickson 11y ago
  If you can't reasonably rely on the testimony of police officers, you have a really big problem. Like, require they take photos and they can just plant the evidence before they take the photo. Compare and contrast a dank whiff with gun fire. I'd like police to be able to respond to the sound of gun fire. I don't see how it is less problematic than responding to the smell of marijuana.
  - mikeash 11y ago

madaxe_again 11y ago

I did a stint working in Virginia, used to walk a few miles out of town to home after a night's boozing, as unlike seemingly most Americans I won't get behind the wheel drunk, taxis were a rip-off at that time of night, and nothing like a five mile stroll to shake off a hangover. Long story short, was there for two months, walked home maybe five times, got stopped and id'd twice. Both occasions they were really confused as to not only why someone would walk "so far" to get home, but how. They were totally fine taking my student id as a drivers license when I got pulled over speeding though. Ho hum.

electic 11y ago

What city was this in?

copsarebastards 11y ago
Philadelphia.

knodi123 11y ago

I went for a walk late at night, trying to clear my head after a rough breakup. I was just wearing my pajamas, and was walking the sidewalks just a few blocks from home. I turned down a nearby alley in order to head back home, and was half way down it when a creepy-looking car with no lights on squeaked to a stop and blocked off the end of the alley. I froze and looked at it, and that's when the spotlight came on, and I realized it was a cop. Unfortunately, my thought process went "oh, I must look suspicious. But wait, I don't have any ID. Maybe they didn't see me yet...", so I hopped into a driveway, out of sight of the cop. Oops, bad move. They went full lights-and-siren, and burned rubber down the alley towards me. I took off running towards my house, zigzagging between houses to break line of sight. When I got back home, I hopped my fence and went in the back door, just because it was the closest entrance. Double-unfortunately, apparently the cops decided I was a serious threat, and several minutes later I looked out the window to a police car in my own alley, following a cop with a german shepherd. The dog circled my property, and then barked at the fence, so the cops kicked my gate down and searched my back yard. They jiggled the doors and windows, found them locked, and decided to call it a night. I got up early the next morning to fix my gate, and my parents never found out about it.

stronglikedan 11y ago
For the future, or maybe you know by now, you are not required to carry an ID while walking anywhere in public. However, you are required to identify yourself in most places, if asked by an officer of the law, usually by giving your full name.
- comeandgetme 11y ago
  You are only required to identify yourself if they have reasonable suspicion that you've committed, or are about to commit, a crime. Of course, that all gets sorted out post-arrest if you don't cooperate, which sucks for us.
  - Navarr 11y ago
    In the described event, particularly a person fleeing an officer before the officer even talks to them - I would not be surprised if they considered that reasonable suspicion.

ams6110 11y ago

It may surprise you to know that cops often deal with truly violent, aggressive individuals and often place their lives in danger. Being assertive and controlling is a proven way to keep situations under control as much as possible when they don't know who they're dealing with. The cop-hate is really getting out of control. Inner-city blacks kill a lot more black people than cops do, yet we bend over backwards to not be judgemental of them. Yes racism is bad. But automatic hatred of cops is really driven by the same kind of thinking.

untog 11y ago
Having lived in a few different (western, first world) countries, US cops have been by far and away the rudest, most aggressive and entitled I have encountered. It is possible to deal with truly violent and aggressive individuals without always being violent and aggressive yourself.
dragonwriter 11y ago
> Inner-city blacks kill a lot more black people than cops do, yet we bend over backwards to not be judgemental of them. I haven't encountered many, if any, people who bend over backwards to not be judgmental of inner city blacks who kill other black people, least of all the people who like to point to the number of inner city blacks who kill black people as a means of dismissing specific criticism aggressive behavior by cops.
copsarebastards 11y ago
> It may surprise you to know that cops often deal with truly violent, aggressive individuals and often place their lives in danger. Violent, aggressive EMTs trying to treat a patient? And a huge portion of the people jailed in the US are jailed for non-violent crimes. If you can't deal differently with violent, aggressive people than with people who are clearly non-violent and not aggressive, you have no fucking business being a cop. Having lived and worked in some pretty nasty areas, I've dealt with some violent, aggressive individuals, yet every day I manage to restrain myself from wrongly accusing people of crimes and beating up innocent people. I'm not sure why you think this is hard. > The cop-hate is really getting out of control. I think I have a right to hate people who are violent and aggressive. > Inner-city blacks kill a lot more black people than cops do, yet we bend over backwards to not be judgemental of them. No, I hate inner-city blacks who kill people just as much as I hate cops who kill people. I just don't talk about it much, because we don't seem to have much problem giving inner-city blacks who kill people the jail time they deserve. > But automatic hatred of cops is really driven by the same kind of thinking. I don't automatically hate cops. It just so happens that cops frequently go out of their way to give me reason to hate them.

mc32 11y ago

In my experience, in countries with heavy firearm regulation, cops are more mellow. Maybe it's just a coincidence, but that's been my experience. The aggressiveness in the police along with the adversarial attitude needs to change, it's been unhealthy for a while, on the other hand crime is down, but no one can agree why. Is it police aggressiveness, tougher sentencing, removal of pollutants from environment, aging population.... There are several explanations, but none are completely convincing. I think some day we'll have to reconsider the interpretation of the second amendment, short of that, change people's perception of firearms. Households with firearms suffer more injury due to accidents than they prevent via deterrence. So, we need to change the attitude so that owning firearms are frowned upon as much as being a tax dodger is frowned upon. It's hard to avoid feeling that being preemptively aggressive when you know there are people either crazy enough or desperate or foolish enough to use a firearm against a cop and that having your guard down can result in premature departure. But if the likelihood of guns circulating was low, you could give the public the benefit of doubt.

hackuser 11y ago
Per a recent NY Times article: "No police officer in England has died from a weapon attack during the past two years, according to the most recent published data, and none have been involved in fatal shootings during that period." http://www.nytimes.com/2015/05/05/us/police-start-to-reconsider-longstanding-rules-on-using-force.html http://www.nytimes.com/2015/05/05/us/police-start-to-reconsi...
CWuestefeld 11y ago
Households with firearms suffer more injury due to accidents than they prevent via deterrence. I think you're mistaking correlation for causation. Consider: a household that's more likely to be in danger is also more likely to have a gun. For example, a drug dealer is frequently in dangerous situations, and so is likely to have a gun. He's also more likely to be injured or killed than your or I. Is that because he owns that gun? It seems unlikely. Many more legitimate professions and activities carry risks like that. So simply showing that correlation isn't anywhere near sufficient to demonstrate that the gun owner would be safer without his gun.

rsync 11y ago

"Stopping medical professionals from doing their jobs puts the lives of civilians in danger." One of the first, and most important things we can do is to change the language we are using. Above, you spoke of civilians as different from - separate from - police officers. Please stop doing this. All police officers are civilians - just like you and I.[1] If you are not in the process of being arrested you are the peer in every way of the police officer. Don't forget it. [1] With the obvious exception of the reader of this comment who is an active duty soldier/sailor.

TallGuyShort 11y ago
Civilians just like you and I, but with elevated rights to carry firearms and demonstrable bias in their favour in the legal system.
griffinmahon 11y ago
I like your distinction, and for the same reason think that there shouldn't be separate laws for the assault of a police officer -- there should just be laws for assault.
copsarebastards 11y ago
The concept of what you're saying is nice, but I don't know if I agree. In an ideal society, yes, cops would just be other citizens. But talking about cops as if we existed in that ideal world doesn't do anything to move us toward that ideal world. The fact is, cops are largely above the law and incarcerate thousands of people annually, disproportionately along racial and economic lines, and frequently for non-violent crimes. An average citizen can't walk up to another person and put them in jail, basically at will. A cop can: all it takes is planting a little evidence. Cops in America aren't ordinary citizens, they're threats to ordinary citizens, and speaking wishfully about them isn't going to fix that.
abandonliberty 11y ago
Dejure you are correct, but not defacto. The ability of an officer to arrest someone and openly carry firearms (Canadian) sets them apart even if they're not using them, particularly as they can abuse their powers. Police should be held to a higher standard to compensate for this, and the civilian legal system is poorly equipped to handle them.

wkimeria 11y ago

Yeah, I've had a number of WWB/DWB stops, and in one case a cop pointed a gun at me and forced me to the ground. My crime, jogging in the majority white neighborhood I lived in (there was no active crime in progress, the cop decided that I was 'suspicious' and even after finding nothing on me (I was dressed in sneakers, shorts, t shirt since I was you know, jogging) he proceeded to run my license multiple times and ask me repeatedly what I was doing in the area (apparently 'I live here' and 'jogging' were not satisfactory answers). In the end I got my license thrown back at me with a sarcastic 'have a nice day'. I have had very few police interactions where it was not clear that the cops viewed their role as dominating and using overwhelming force. U.S cops seem to have a very militaristic mindset which is really bizarre, considering compared to other jobs, being a cop is not that dangerous.In fact, the one case that stood out to me was one where a cop acted the way he should have. I got rear-ended on New Years Eve (as luck would have it, right in front of the State Trooper Barracks). The State Trooper who responded was amazing. He checked on everyone, found that the passenger of the idiot who rear ended me had a broken nose (she had no seatbelt on), called an ambulance, squared everything. He had a truly calming presence. That is how cops should be.