5 ms·

A few weeks ago China was attacking a US company (GitHub), and many Americans here called for China to be kicked off the internet. Now the USA is spying on Fren

by rmc 12y ago

A few weeks ago China was attacking a US company (GitHub), and many Americans here called for China to be kicked off the internet. Now the USA is spying on French companies. I presume the same people will call for the USA to be kicked off the internet?

pyvpx 12y ago
see "American Exceptionalism"
wolfgke 12y ago
> I presume the same people will call for the USA to be kicked off the internet? Or at least put the DNS root zone under international control (currently the root zone is under control of the Department of Commerce; cf. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/DNS_root_zone http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/DNS_root_zone).
- atmosx 12y ago
  I am trying to think how on earth can we avoid that in the future... Every country will turn into an closed-Internet Island. You won't be able to buy anything abroad without being taxed (multiple times), you won't be able to purchase remote services (even if they are far superior). Government will turn the internet into something unimaginably ugly. Then we'll have books to explain how the internet was once upon a time.
  - alfiedotwtf 12y ago
    Nothing is stopping you start a new root DNS. In fact, people are doing just that: https://bit.namecoin.info/
    - _lce0 12y ago
      This is great. Thanks for sharing! I really see that this is the right direction, however this requires that each user install something in their machines, which wont converge quickly.
      - jkestner 12y ago
        It would be interesting to see the major consumer electronics companies, already in opposition to the governments' growing control of the internet, start to add new root DNSes.
  - Silhouette 12y ago
    Sadly, I suspect a phase of that sort is inevitable. For all the good it has done, the Internet inherently transcends national borders and therefore national cultures, laws, and tax systems. Western governments are, as a rule, all in favour of globalization when it means they can have cheap imports and new export markets, but much less keen on it when it means giving up control or tax revenues. With physical international travel, and even physical shipping, there are inherent barriers to crossing borders or places where governments can impose checkpoints and reassert their authority at least within their own domain. With the Internet, as long as it remains open as it mostly is today, governments lack that control. Normal people deal with foreign contacts and businesses routinely every day. This is a threat to established powers like big businesses and governments, particularly in economic terms. Given the most powerful efforts at international trade agreements we're seeing today -- the likes of TPP and TTIP -- are not even being negotiated with real scrutiny by elected legislators any more, never mind the general public, I think we can safely assume that the upper echelons are now so corrupt that the present system is beyond hope. I would like to think that the freedom of communication and sharing of knowledge offered by the Internet would lead to a better system taking over, but as a realist I fear an increasing tendency to lock things down instead, at least for the short-to-medium term. Can't have governments losing their sales taxes, major IP holders losing out to more liberal foreign IP regimes, and the like. Obviously that lock-down will actually be catastrophic both culturally and economically, by hurting both the normal citizen and the small/young businesses trying to offer better ways to do things. I just don't think the big business/big government complexes that dominate Western politics today care, as long as they keep their figures up for the next quarter/election. That all said, I remain optimistic that in the long run the advantages of the Internet will win out. Sooner or later a generation who grew up never knowing a world without mobile communications and the Internet will come to power. Before then, corporate and government greed in the West may lead to another financial crisis and questions asked about our current systems of government and business practices last time may turn to direct action in more than just a few places like Greece. I suspect we're going to go through a pretty dark phase over the next few years as governments and business communities led by people who frankly don't understand the technology anyway most of the time struggle to adapt to a changing world they can no longer manipulate as they used to. But I don't think it will last forever, because the dinosaurs will become extinct in a decade or two and those who replace them will remember what they did.
kghose 12y ago
Are there any French companies worth spying on?
- pjc50 12y ago
  Airbus are the usual target.
  - pol0nium 12y ago
    Or Thales, Safran, Dassault, banks,...
    - kghose 12y ago
      They are all at least a generation behind the US technologies.
kushti 12y ago
Nope, the united states of double standards is the exceptional territory

by rmc 12y ago

pyvpx 12y ago

see "American Exceptionalism"

wolfgke 12y ago

> I presume the same people will call for the USA to be kicked off the internet? Or at least put the DNS root zone under international control (currently the root zone is under control of the Department of Commerce; cf. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/DNS_root_zone http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/DNS_root_zone).

atmosx 12y ago
I am trying to think how on earth can we avoid that in the future... Every country will turn into an closed-Internet Island. You won't be able to buy anything abroad without being taxed (multiple times), you won't be able to purchase remote services (even if they are far superior). Government will turn the internet into something unimaginably ugly. Then we'll have books to explain how the internet was once upon a time.
- alfiedotwtf 12y ago
  Nothing is stopping you start a new root DNS. In fact, people are doing just that: https://bit.namecoin.info/
  - _lce0 12y ago
    This is great. Thanks for sharing! I really see that this is the right direction, however this requires that each user install something in their machines, which wont converge quickly.
    - jkestner 12y ago
      It would be interesting to see the major consumer electronics companies, already in opposition to the governments' growing control of the internet, start to add new root DNSes.
- Silhouette 12y ago
  Sadly, I suspect a phase of that sort is inevitable. For all the good it has done, the Internet inherently transcends national borders and therefore national cultures, laws, and tax systems. Western governments are, as a rule, all in favour of globalization when it means they can have cheap imports and new export markets, but much less keen on it when it means giving up control or tax revenues. With physical international travel, and even physical shipping, there are inherent barriers to crossing borders or places where governments can impose checkpoints and reassert their authority at least within their own domain. With the Internet, as long as it remains open as it mostly is today, governments lack that control. Normal people deal with foreign contacts and businesses routinely every day. This is a threat to established powers like big businesses and governments, particularly in economic terms. Given the most powerful efforts at international trade agreements we're seeing today -- the likes of TPP and TTIP -- are not even being negotiated with real scrutiny by elected legislators any more, never mind the general public, I think we can safely assume that the upper echelons are now so corrupt that the present system is beyond hope. I would like to think that the freedom of communication and sharing of knowledge offered by the Internet would lead to a better system taking over, but as a realist I fear an increasing tendency to lock things down instead, at least for the short-to-medium term. Can't have governments losing their sales taxes, major IP holders losing out to more liberal foreign IP regimes, and the like. Obviously that lock-down will actually be catastrophic both culturally and economically, by hurting both the normal citizen and the small/young businesses trying to offer better ways to do things. I just don't think the big business/big government complexes that dominate Western politics today care, as long as they keep their figures up for the next quarter/election. That all said, I remain optimistic that in the long run the advantages of the Internet will win out. Sooner or later a generation who grew up never knowing a world without mobile communications and the Internet will come to power. Before then, corporate and government greed in the West may lead to another financial crisis and questions asked about our current systems of government and business practices last time may turn to direct action in more than just a few places like Greece. I suspect we're going to go through a pretty dark phase over the next few years as governments and business communities led by people who frankly don't understand the technology anyway most of the time struggle to adapt to a changing world they can no longer manipulate as they used to. But I don't think it will last forever, because the dinosaurs will become extinct in a decade or two and those who replace them will remember what they did.

kghose 12y ago

Are there any French companies worth spying on?

pjc50 12y ago
Airbus are the usual target.
- pol0nium 12y ago
  Or Thales, Safran, Dassault, banks,...
  - kghose 12y ago
    They are all at least a generation behind the US technologies.

kushti 12y ago

Nope, the united states of double standards is the exceptional territory