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>> Most important takeaway about salary negotiation, by the way: disclosing a previous salary is almost always against your interests because it pegs your new s

>> Most important takeaway about salary negotiation, by the way: disclosing a previous salary is almost always against your interests because it pegs your new salary to that plus 5% rather than your value to the new firm minus a discount, which is a brutal mistake I had a phone screen with an HR drone once (Cerner Inc. to be exact \waves) part way thru she asked me my current salary. I declined to provide that information. She replied "we can't continue without that information". I replied, I'm sorry, but I won't discuss salary at this point. She said, "good bye" and that was all. I had a job so was not desperate at the time. I was still shocked at how abrupt it was.

ashark 12y ago
I've never really gotten over the shock of discovering that anyone asks this, let alone that it's common (especially for larger companies). Add it to the list of things in business that seem to me to be inappropriate/rude/immoral, I suppose.
- rev_bird 12y ago
  I originally wasn't really very against these kinds of questions, until someone pointed out that they're basically asking how much a different company values different work you're doing for different ends, to help them determine how desperate you are for doing their totally unrelated work. I got much more resistant after that.
- switch007 12y ago
  Imbalance of power fuelled by a recession = more inappropriate/rude/immoral behaviour to take advantage of the situation. They know they can say "tell us your previous salary, or else". What's worse is that they will ask your references to confirm, and they'll likely happily tell them. If you lied, it won't go down well. As if there wasn't enough crap to fight against in your career.. ugh. EDIT: I forgot about employment contracts that prohibit you from disclosing your previous salary. Yes, they exist.
  - lsaferite 12y ago
    Well, there you go. "I'm under an NDA that prevents me from disclosing my salary."
davidw 12y ago
We're fortunate enough to be in an industry where it's rare to be really desperate for a job, so I've come to take this kind of thing as a very strong indication that it's the kind of place that would really suck to work at in any case. From that point of view, the earlier all the BS floats to the surface, the better, so you can get on with looking for a good job.
- sanderjd 12y ago
  Yeah except sometimes good engineering teams sit behind ugly HR practices, and hiring processes unfortunately expose you to HR far more than the actual job does.
  - davidw 12y ago
    The world is full of people doing good and interesting stuff without having all kinds of lame bureaucracy. I'm more than willing to bear the risk of missing out on something interesting by passing on that kind of company.
    - sanderjd 12y ago
      I don't think level of HR bureaucracy is very well correlated with anything relating to job satisfaction, and it is easy to over-index on during the hiring process. I don't think your willingness to bear the risk of false negatives is unreasonable at all, but it's worth being aware that you're judging one department based on interactions with a completely different one.
      - davidw 12y ago
        If a company truly cares about getting good people, they'll rein in that kind of thing.
  - learnstats2 12y ago
    If a company has ugly HR practices, you can be sure you will not be the only good person who is balking at the company. If you HR put you off, you're not the only one. Externally they will find it more difficult to hire, and internally the real talent will start to notice. Therefore, you don't need to worry about it. There are other places you can work with good people.
eqdw 12y ago
That's the point where you quote a wildly inflated salary with a straight face. "My last salary was $300,000. Yes, seriously. Is that too high for you? We can discuss this further in negotiations, I'm flexible"
- civilian 12y ago
  I overhead my manager no-hiring someone who gave that same number. :-(
- nilkn 12y ago
  I've done this before. It worked. To figure out what number you should cite, look in a mirror. Keep saying bigger numbers. Don't stop until you've got a sheepish grin on your face.
  - beachstartup 12y ago
    LOL, of course it works. why wouldn't it? someone asks you a question, you give them an answer. to me all of this buffoonery around hiding your salary requirements sounds ridiculous. i'm a startup co-founder, i hire all the time. if i asked someone what their salary requirements are and they said 200k or 300k i'd immediately interview them to see if they're worth that much. i would take it as a personal challenge to see if i could stump them, and if i couldn't, i'd start negotiating their salary on the spot. some people get paid MILLIONS OF DOLLARS! how the hell d'ya you think they got that much? they asked for it! people who don't want to "reveal" their salary requirements like it's some big huge secret have probably never hired anyone in their life.
    - pmichaud 12y ago
      There's an important distinction here though. This isn't a discussion about disclosing salary requirements, it's a discussion about disclosing previous salary, presumably so the company can make you an offer only marginally better than that. That's a big problem if you're already underpaid.
joshrotenberg 12y ago
The flipside is that you give them a number and get a good idea if they are going to be able to compete, and if not, you don't waste any more of your time.
- Nicholas_C 12y ago
  Most of the time (in my experience) the recruiters know how much the companies are willing to pay and will tell you a range. Or you can tell them what range you're targeting. There really isn't any real upside to giving your salary away.
IkmoIkmo 12y ago
Crazy. I'd definitely send a quick note to someone higher up if you can get a hold of him/her. I know, not worth the time, a hassle etc. But a typical CEO worth his salt will crush something silly like that in no-time, if you really want to hire good people this is the type of person you want to fire. I mean, hell, asking the question is one thing. I can live with that. But turning that into some kind of litmus test where declining to share private information completely 100% immediately disqualifies you, that's insane. Anyway, never experienced it. Question for you all, are there any negatives to bluffing? i.e. say you said your previous salary was $110k while it was really $90k, will HR say 'you're overqualified' or something to that extent if they were hoping to pay you say $90k and had a max of $100k in mind? As in, can you recover from that and say 'oh but $100k is fine, too', or would that also send a signal of weakness where they won't hire you because you seem desperate (taking a $10k cut from their perspective, when you actually get a $10k raise)? Ugh the mindgames! haha. Would love to hear your experiences on this issue.
- marktangotango 12y ago
  Yes, one might think so, but this was the CEO in question[1]. Edit, and so far as bluffing, could an employer legally ask for W2's to verify? [1] http://www.nytimes.com/2001/04/05/business/stinging-office-memo-boomerangs-chief-executive-criticized-after-upbraiding.html http://www.nytimes.com/2001/04/05/business/stinging-office-m...
  - eli 12y ago
    IANAL, but I don't see why that would be illegal. There are very few things that it's actually illegal for an employer to ask about. (Though it would obviously be a bad idea to ask a candidate about their status in a protected class, it's not technically illegal to ask.) That said, this is a bad idea because it would scare off plenty of people who aren't bluffing about their salary (like me). And there are already employers who will terminate you immediately if they discover you lied in your job application.
    - JoblessWonder 12y ago
Nicholas_C 12y ago
I had a similar experience with a recruiter. I asked why and she couldn't come up with a compelling answer, she just said "That's just how it is, we need your salary." She escalated it to her manager and he pulled the same. I eventually complied but not without telling them I didn't ever receive a good reason and it makes zero sense and I couldn't see how it would do anything but hurt me. Funny enough I ended up getting an offer way above my current salary, and a bit more than what I said I wanted. Is anyone here a recruiter and can shed some light as to why the hell these people are so adamant about getting my salary??? I'm wondering if part of the deal for them is if they don't give my current salary to HR they won't get paid. That seems really stupid but they were acting like they would let me walk if I didn't tell them my salary.
- nostrademons 12y ago
  It's a pretty strong signal that they want people who won't negotiate and aren't assertive. In some businesses, it's just counterproductive to hire an assertive employee: the business processes are in place, the command structure is well-established, and they just need bodies to fill places in the org chart. If it's one of those companies and you're one of those people, getting hired there will likely be painful for both of you.
  - Nicholas_C 12y ago
    Hmmm, but this was the recruiter, not the company. The recruiter itself would want me to be assertive and negotiate as their compensation is calculated based on my starting salary. And this company was a very small and fast growing firm that would require a lot of hustle and assertiveness. My entire in person interview process was based on a case study that took 12 hours where I spent a large part of that arguing with my results/reasoning. So I don't think that holds.
    - nostrademons 12y ago
      In-house recruiter or independent recruiter? An in-house recruiter likely has their hands tied by company policy; if the company wants candidates who won't negotiate, the recruiters will not be permitted to negotiate, and will need to report back certain information like past salary. If it was an independent recruiter, that's a little weird, since presumably they have multiple clients. Maybe they need it for whatever matching software they use to search their available positions?
mahyarm 12y ago
As an immigrant they will need you last few pay checks as part of the visa process. So they will get it sooner or later. I've just learned to say that I want to find out what you guys think is a fair offer and left it there. After a certain point salary moves little and stock moves a lot.
kamaal 12y ago
Similar experience in other places but I replied "We are a little early in the interview phase to talk about this, lets come back to it later". This worked until I reached the last phase of the interview, the salary discussion. The HR person simply refused to proceed further without the current salary information, as a matter of fact when I told them they should be paying what I'm worth, he said they can't proceed without it any cost. I wasn't interested in the Job so I didn't care, but they seem to count on the fact that given so many programmers out there they it wouldn't matter to them if they would lose a candidate even that late in the interview phase. In short if there are many devs out there looking for a job, there will always be some one willing to work for a lesser pay.
Nicholas_C 12y ago
I find that quote interesting as well. Would anyone actually leave their job for $5k? Unless you hate your current job or the new job is more intellectually stimulating/better culture, that's a pretty paltry amount to take the risk of leaving your current role. Especially considering if you leave and don't like it you may have to stay in a role you don't like for a couple years to avoid looking like a job hopper. I make well under $100k and wouldn't leave my company for $5k unless the work is significantly more interesting. I work in finance so perhaps engineering is different.
- galfarragem 12y ago
  5K raise is a good deal in some countries/industries. It might mean a 5% increase in a 100K sallary but it can also mean a 25% raise in a 20K sallary.
venomsnake 12y ago
Multiply your current by 4
venomsnake 12y ago
Multiply your current by 4
walshemj 12y ago
I a have had similar experience for a well known uk agency - I effectively fired them and of course If I should ever need to interview any of their candidates the cv's are going in the bin unread
chadgeidel 12y ago
I had a recruiter tell me I was legally obligated to tell him my current salary. I said no thanks, not interested and he proceeded to attempt to keep me on the phone for another 10 minutes (after which I hung up). Needless to say, I don't waste my time any longer when a recruiter asks. I just say "here's what I expect".
- lscore720 12y ago
  Legally obligated, wow, never heard that one before! Good answer. When I'm talking to a reasonable candidate, that's all I need at the end of the day: an expectation $ range.
emodendroket 12y ago
As a software engineer in the current market you have the luxury of not dealing with such people, so don't.
return0 12y ago
I am curious though, what were you protecting by declining to tell them? You could just make up an exorbitant number for one. I understand not talking about money with our friends, it's bad social signaling, but a recruiter is a different thing.
kelukelugames 12y ago
I'm going to link this again, because it is one of the best pieces from a recruiter's point of view. https://www.linkedin.com/pulse/should-i-reveal-my-compensation-recruiter-ambra-benjamin https://www.linkedin.com/pulse/should-i-reveal-my-compensati...
krick 12y ago
I'm not really surprised, because, well, whatever people do just ceases to surprise at some point, but I guess it's quite likely that there's something in my contract (and I guess it's quite typical, so the same could be assumed about yours) that legally disallows me to disclose whatever there is to disclose about my relations with my current employer, including my salary. Of course, it doesn't stop me from actually doing so, because, well, the inequality of market knowledge between your typical employer and your typical employee just really isn't fair when it comes to discussing your remuneration. But sure as hell I'd remember of that NDA thing when asked of something like this by an HR, and would try to sound as shocked by the assumption I can disclose something like this, as possible.
serve_yay 12y ago
You made the right call, I think, unless there was some way to get what you were looking for by either answering the question with a lie, or otherwise evading it. Sometimes, people press you for info because they need to have it on paper that they tried. It's possible you could have just made up a number, and the HR drone just needed something to write on the paper. But anyway, yeah, answering that question honestly is for suckers.
JeremyMorgan 12y ago
I learned my lesson about this once. I accepted an offer at a company who wanted 10 years of my salary history. 10 years. So I provided it to them, and one of the companies (who was out of business) could not verify my salary (Pay stubs were not enough, they had to talk to someone). After this they said they may have "adjust the offer accordingly" and it would most certainly be less because the offer was based on my stated salary at the time. As most of you are probably guessing, I declined their offer and withdrew myself. Ever since then when they ask my current salary, I don't give it to them.
- biafra 12y ago
  Please tell us the name of the company! Are they still in business?
tremendo 12y ago
"What is your current salary?" I would think that at this point they _are_ interested in bringing you on. Then you could go in different directions: "I'll be glad to discuss my salary requirements at the appropriate time, would you please tell me first how badly do you need me? more about ... say work-life balance, employee rotation, non-monetary perks, whatever... "Let me tell you about how much more value I bring to my work, many times over salary, which I am ready to do for you, because your great company really prizes the beneficial effect I'll bring to the bottom line." So you're answering, things they want to hear, not exactly what they asked, but better, for you and for them. I should listen to myself now. (Edited formatting, structure)
- fweespeech 12y ago
  None of that actually works. I'm not sure why you think it does but the HR "drone" that acts as a Gatekeeper requires a dollar figure to put into the box or they punt you, like the comment you are replying to says. It doesn't happen often [at least for me] but it does happen. I have similar issues when I decline to put an "Education" section on my resume. Both are groups I'd prefer to avoid, personally, but you do need to recognize there is a certain percentage of people that won't work with due to their process.
- fweespeech 12y ago
  None of that actually works. I'm not sure why you think it does but the HR "drone" that acts as a Gatekeeper requires a dollar figure to put into the box or they punt you, like the comment you are replying to says. It doesn't happen often [at least for me] but it does happen. I have similar issues when I decline to put an "Education" section on my resume. Both are groups I'd prefer to avoid, personally, but you do need to recognize there is a certain percentage of people that won't work with due to their process.
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beambot 12y ago
The funniest one I ever had: Going from my wife's startup to Google. > What is your current salary? > I make minimum wage, plus founder equity current valued at $X Million over the next few years. I soon made it clear to the recruiter (who was very nice and understanding, btw) that previous compensation comprised of intentionally-minuscule salary and startup equity with funny-money valuations would not be a good proxy for my value-add. Worked out fine.
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jtroyer 12y ago
Many times asking for your salary isn't a nefarious negotiating tactic - it's just to make sure both parties are in the same ballpark. If you're already at $110K and the opening tops out at $80K, there's no reason to waste either party's time.
- maxerickson 12y ago
  It is still a negotiating tactic as you describe it -- they are trying to avoid disclosing information.
- rhizome 12y ago
  If that was the case, why couldn't they say "This position tops out at $80K, will that be a problem?"
  - lscore720 12y ago
    Recruiter here. Good question. In the majority of cases, I would say your approach would be just as effective. However, I prefer asking because: 1) It's about gaining intelligence - not in a nefarious way. If enough candidates at the right experience level are giving me a range of $90K - $100K and the client still won't budge beyond looking at candidates in the $60K - $80K range, I can eventually come back to them and say "Listen: of the last 10 candidates you liked, their salaries were..." A smart, reasonable client will make adjustments. 2) In rare cases: a "rockstar" candidate may be able to get 10% more than the budgeted amount, for example. So I would hate to send you that $80K tops message if there were potential for a perfect match. Then suddenly you're no longer interested and we missed a grand opportunity. Again, I agree with you for the most part. But ultimately, the recruiter figures: 99% of candidates give their salary number or a tight range, upfront, without issue, so there's no harm in asking for reasons 1 and 2.
    - rhizome 12y ago
      None of this makes perfect sense, and reads like just-so stories. On 1), you could just as easily say "of the 10 candidates you liked, 8 of them were still interested given the salary bracket." For 2), you could say "the job pays $X-Y, with flexibility on the top end if they really want you." It's interesting ("gaining intelligence") to read an account of recruiter allegiances, though.
rgovind 12y ago
1) recently, I had very good success with a professional social networking site in this matter. Recruiter asked what my current salary details are. I told me, "If I give you this information, what information will you give me". Initially he asked me to look in glassdoor but when I said he can also do the same thing, he relented and disclosed that salary for senior software engineer is minimum of $150k going to a maximum of $190k. I was happy with that information. Also, I discovered recently that companies cannot talk to one another about salaries, but they can all participate in a "survey" where the surveyor aggregates all this information, in a very detailed way. So, every company knows exactly what the other company is paying, even in a different industry. I guess that is another way of fixing price.
joshmn 12y ago
Recruiters on LinkedIn message me all the time. I come back with, "unless your client is looking to pay {double my current annual income is} + {25% bonus} I'm really not able to make that kind of transition in my life" (I would act as if that was my base) Didn't work a few times, which I was fine with as I didn't want to jump ship. I really just wanted to get off their list. Then, a few contacted me again a month later saying how they found me the perfect fit. Boy oh boy did they ever.
- clamprecht 12y ago
  I like this approach. A Smart Bear wrote about it on his blog once: http://blog.asmartbear.com/how-to-say-yes.html http://blog.asmartbear.com/how-to-say-yes.html
baby 12y ago
For my internship, I got asked on the phone how much the others were offering me. I first asked "if I tell you, will you lower your offer?". It got my interviewer a pretty good laugh and he told me that he wasn't that malicious. I told him what he wanted to hear and I think I got a fair offer anyway (which was like more than twice the best offer I had).
maaku 12y ago
I thank you for doing the right thing.
vladimirralev 12y ago
Just ask them what's the maximum they can pay.
hackerboos 12y ago
I've had recruiters do this (Explore LTD in London). The 'data collector' asked me my current salary and I refused to state it. She became very hostile saying "How are we meant to negotiate for you if you won't disclose what salary you are on?". I told her to let me negotiate my own salary.
dhimes 12y ago
I've heard of recruiters doing this with the sole purpose of discovering what their competitors are paying. Depending on how far along in the hiring process you were, it may be that she actually had no interest in hiring you but was simply polling for salary information.

ashark 12y ago

I've never really gotten over the shock of discovering that anyone asks this, let alone that it's common (especially for larger companies). Add it to the list of things in business that seem to me to be inappropriate/rude/immoral, I suppose.

rev_bird 12y ago
I originally wasn't really very against these kinds of questions, until someone pointed out that they're basically asking how much a different company values different work you're doing for different ends, to help them determine how desperate you are for doing their totally unrelated work. I got much more resistant after that.
switch007 12y ago
Imbalance of power fuelled by a recession = more inappropriate/rude/immoral behaviour to take advantage of the situation. They know they can say "tell us your previous salary, or else". What's worse is that they will ask your references to confirm, and they'll likely happily tell them. If you lied, it won't go down well. As if there wasn't enough crap to fight against in your career.. ugh. EDIT: I forgot about employment contracts that prohibit you from disclosing your previous salary. Yes, they exist.
- lsaferite 12y ago
  Well, there you go. "I'm under an NDA that prevents me from disclosing my salary."

davidw 12y ago

We're fortunate enough to be in an industry where it's rare to be really desperate for a job, so I've come to take this kind of thing as a very strong indication that it's the kind of place that would really suck to work at in any case. From that point of view, the earlier all the BS floats to the surface, the better, so you can get on with looking for a good job.

sanderjd 12y ago
Yeah except sometimes good engineering teams sit behind ugly HR practices, and hiring processes unfortunately expose you to HR far more than the actual job does.
- davidw 12y ago
  The world is full of people doing good and interesting stuff without having all kinds of lame bureaucracy. I'm more than willing to bear the risk of missing out on something interesting by passing on that kind of company.
  - sanderjd 12y ago
    I don't think level of HR bureaucracy is very well correlated with anything relating to job satisfaction, and it is easy to over-index on during the hiring process. I don't think your willingness to bear the risk of false negatives is unreasonable at all, but it's worth being aware that you're judging one department based on interactions with a completely different one.
    - davidw 12y ago
      If a company truly cares about getting good people, they'll rein in that kind of thing.
- learnstats2 12y ago
  If a company has ugly HR practices, you can be sure you will not be the only good person who is balking at the company. If you HR put you off, you're not the only one. Externally they will find it more difficult to hire, and internally the real talent will start to notice. Therefore, you don't need to worry about it. There are other places you can work with good people.

eqdw 12y ago

That's the point where you quote a wildly inflated salary with a straight face. "My last salary was $300,000. Yes, seriously. Is that too high for you? We can discuss this further in negotiations, I'm flexible"

civilian 12y ago
I overhead my manager no-hiring someone who gave that same number. :-(
nilkn 12y ago
I've done this before. It worked. To figure out what number you should cite, look in a mirror. Keep saying bigger numbers. Don't stop until you've got a sheepish grin on your face.
- beachstartup 12y ago
  LOL, of course it works. why wouldn't it? someone asks you a question, you give them an answer. to me all of this buffoonery around hiding your salary requirements sounds ridiculous. i'm a startup co-founder, i hire all the time. if i asked someone what their salary requirements are and they said 200k or 300k i'd immediately interview them to see if they're worth that much. i would take it as a personal challenge to see if i could stump them, and if i couldn't, i'd start negotiating their salary on the spot. some people get paid MILLIONS OF DOLLARS! how the hell d'ya you think they got that much? they asked for it! people who don't want to "reveal" their salary requirements like it's some big huge secret have probably never hired anyone in their life.
  - pmichaud 12y ago
    There's an important distinction here though. This isn't a discussion about disclosing salary requirements, it's a discussion about disclosing previous salary, presumably so the company can make you an offer only marginally better than that. That's a big problem if you're already underpaid.

joshrotenberg 12y ago

The flipside is that you give them a number and get a good idea if they are going to be able to compete, and if not, you don't waste any more of your time.

Nicholas_C 12y ago
Most of the time (in my experience) the recruiters know how much the companies are willing to pay and will tell you a range. Or you can tell them what range you're targeting. There really isn't any real upside to giving your salary away.

IkmoIkmo 12y ago

Crazy. I'd definitely send a quick note to someone higher up if you can get a hold of him/her. I know, not worth the time, a hassle etc. But a typical CEO worth his salt will crush something silly like that in no-time, if you really want to hire good people this is the type of person you want to fire. I mean, hell, asking the question is one thing. I can live with that. But turning that into some kind of litmus test where declining to share private information completely 100% immediately disqualifies you, that's insane. Anyway, never experienced it. Question for you all, are there any negatives to bluffing? i.e. say you said your previous salary was $110k while it was really $90k, will HR say 'you're overqualified' or something to that extent if they were hoping to pay you say $90k and had a max of $100k in mind? As in, can you recover from that and say 'oh but $100k is fine, too', or would that also send a signal of weakness where they won't hire you because you seem desperate (taking a $10k cut from their perspective, when you actually get a $10k raise)? Ugh the mindgames! haha. Would love to hear your experiences on this issue.

marktangotango 12y ago
Yes, one might think so, but this was the CEO in question[1]. Edit, and so far as bluffing, could an employer legally ask for W2's to verify? [1] http://www.nytimes.com/2001/04/05/business/stinging-office-memo-boomerangs-chief-executive-criticized-after-upbraiding.html http://www.nytimes.com/2001/04/05/business/stinging-office-m...
- eli 12y ago
  IANAL, but I don't see why that would be illegal. There are very few things that it's actually illegal for an employer to ask about. (Though it would obviously be a bad idea to ask a candidate about their status in a protected class, it's not technically illegal to ask.) That said, this is a bad idea because it would scare off plenty of people who aren't bluffing about their salary (like me). And there are already employers who will terminate you immediately if they discover you lied in your job application.
  - JoblessWonder 12y ago

Nicholas_C 12y ago

I had a similar experience with a recruiter. I asked why and she couldn't come up with a compelling answer, she just said "That's just how it is, we need your salary." She escalated it to her manager and he pulled the same. I eventually complied but not without telling them I didn't ever receive a good reason and it makes zero sense and I couldn't see how it would do anything but hurt me. Funny enough I ended up getting an offer way above my current salary, and a bit more than what I said I wanted. Is anyone here a recruiter and can shed some light as to why the hell these people are so adamant about getting my salary??? I'm wondering if part of the deal for them is if they don't give my current salary to HR they won't get paid. That seems really stupid but they were acting like they would let me walk if I didn't tell them my salary.

nostrademons 12y ago
It's a pretty strong signal that they want people who won't negotiate and aren't assertive. In some businesses, it's just counterproductive to hire an assertive employee: the business processes are in place, the command structure is well-established, and they just need bodies to fill places in the org chart. If it's one of those companies and you're one of those people, getting hired there will likely be painful for both of you.
- Nicholas_C 12y ago
  Hmmm, but this was the recruiter, not the company. The recruiter itself would want me to be assertive and negotiate as their compensation is calculated based on my starting salary. And this company was a very small and fast growing firm that would require a lot of hustle and assertiveness. My entire in person interview process was based on a case study that took 12 hours where I spent a large part of that arguing with my results/reasoning. So I don't think that holds.
  - nostrademons 12y ago
    In-house recruiter or independent recruiter? An in-house recruiter likely has their hands tied by company policy; if the company wants candidates who won't negotiate, the recruiters will not be permitted to negotiate, and will need to report back certain information like past salary. If it was an independent recruiter, that's a little weird, since presumably they have multiple clients. Maybe they need it for whatever matching software they use to search their available positions?

mahyarm 12y ago

As an immigrant they will need you last few pay checks as part of the visa process. So they will get it sooner or later. I've just learned to say that I want to find out what you guys think is a fair offer and left it there. After a certain point salary moves little and stock moves a lot.

kamaal 12y ago

Similar experience in other places but I replied "We are a little early in the interview phase to talk about this, lets come back to it later". This worked until I reached the last phase of the interview, the salary discussion. The HR person simply refused to proceed further without the current salary information, as a matter of fact when I told them they should be paying what I'm worth, he said they can't proceed without it any cost. I wasn't interested in the Job so I didn't care, but they seem to count on the fact that given so many programmers out there they it wouldn't matter to them if they would lose a candidate even that late in the interview phase. In short if there are many devs out there looking for a job, there will always be some one willing to work for a lesser pay.

Nicholas_C 12y ago

I find that quote interesting as well. Would anyone actually leave their job for $5k? Unless you hate your current job or the new job is more intellectually stimulating/better culture, that's a pretty paltry amount to take the risk of leaving your current role. Especially considering if you leave and don't like it you may have to stay in a role you don't like for a couple years to avoid looking like a job hopper. I make well under $100k and wouldn't leave my company for $5k unless the work is significantly more interesting. I work in finance so perhaps engineering is different.

galfarragem 12y ago
5K raise is a good deal in some countries/industries. It might mean a 5% increase in a 100K sallary but it can also mean a 25% raise in a 20K sallary.

venomsnake 12y ago

Multiply your current by 4

venomsnake 12y ago

Multiply your current by 4

walshemj 12y ago

I a have had similar experience for a well known uk agency - I effectively fired them and of course If I should ever need to interview any of their candidates the cv's are going in the bin unread

chadgeidel 12y ago

I had a recruiter tell me I was legally obligated to tell him my current salary. I said no thanks, not interested and he proceeded to attempt to keep me on the phone for another 10 minutes (after which I hung up). Needless to say, I don't waste my time any longer when a recruiter asks. I just say "here's what I expect".

lscore720 12y ago
Legally obligated, wow, never heard that one before! Good answer. When I'm talking to a reasonable candidate, that's all I need at the end of the day: an expectation $ range.

emodendroket 12y ago

As a software engineer in the current market you have the luxury of not dealing with such people, so don't.

return0 12y ago

I am curious though, what were you protecting by declining to tell them? You could just make up an exorbitant number for one. I understand not talking about money with our friends, it's bad social signaling, but a recruiter is a different thing.

kelukelugames 12y ago

I'm going to link this again, because it is one of the best pieces from a recruiter's point of view. https://www.linkedin.com/pulse/should-i-reveal-my-compensation-recruiter-ambra-benjamin https://www.linkedin.com/pulse/should-i-reveal-my-compensati...

krick 12y ago

I'm not really surprised, because, well, whatever people do just ceases to surprise at some point, but I guess it's quite likely that there's something in my contract (and I guess it's quite typical, so the same could be assumed about yours) that legally disallows me to disclose whatever there is to disclose about my relations with my current employer, including my salary. Of course, it doesn't stop me from actually doing so, because, well, the inequality of market knowledge between your typical employer and your typical employee just really isn't fair when it comes to discussing your remuneration. But sure as hell I'd remember of that NDA thing when asked of something like this by an HR, and would try to sound as shocked by the assumption I can disclose something like this, as possible.

serve_yay 12y ago

You made the right call, I think, unless there was some way to get what you were looking for by either answering the question with a lie, or otherwise evading it. Sometimes, people press you for info because they need to have it on paper that they tried. It's possible you could have just made up a number, and the HR drone just needed something to write on the paper. But anyway, yeah, answering that question honestly is for suckers.

JeremyMorgan 12y ago

I learned my lesson about this once. I accepted an offer at a company who wanted 10 years of my salary history. 10 years. So I provided it to them, and one of the companies (who was out of business) could not verify my salary (Pay stubs were not enough, they had to talk to someone). After this they said they may have "adjust the offer accordingly" and it would most certainly be less because the offer was based on my stated salary at the time. As most of you are probably guessing, I declined their offer and withdrew myself. Ever since then when they ask my current salary, I don't give it to them.

biafra 12y ago
Please tell us the name of the company! Are they still in business?

tremendo 12y ago

"What is your current salary?" I would think that at this point they _are_ interested in bringing you on. Then you could go in different directions: "I'll be glad to discuss my salary requirements at the appropriate time, would you please tell me first how badly do you need me? more about ... say work-life balance, employee rotation, non-monetary perks, whatever... "Let me tell you about how much more value I bring to my work, many times over salary, which I am ready to do for you, because your great company really prizes the beneficial effect I'll bring to the bottom line." So you're answering, things they want to hear, not exactly what they asked, but better, for you and for them. I should listen to myself now. (Edited formatting, structure)

fweespeech 12y ago
None of that actually works. I'm not sure why you think it does but the HR "drone" that acts as a Gatekeeper requires a dollar figure to put into the box or they punt you, like the comment you are replying to says. It doesn't happen often [at least for me] but it does happen. I have similar issues when I decline to put an "Education" section on my resume. Both are groups I'd prefer to avoid, personally, but you do need to recognize there is a certain percentage of people that won't work with due to their process.
fweespeech 12y ago
None of that actually works. I'm not sure why you think it does but the HR "drone" that acts as a Gatekeeper requires a dollar figure to put into the box or they punt you, like the comment you are replying to says. It doesn't happen often [at least for me] but it does happen. I have similar issues when I decline to put an "Education" section on my resume. Both are groups I'd prefer to avoid, personally, but you do need to recognize there is a certain percentage of people that won't work with due to their process.

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beambot 12y ago

The funniest one I ever had: Going from my wife's startup to Google. > What is your current salary? > I make minimum wage, plus founder equity current valued at $X Million over the next few years. I soon made it clear to the recruiter (who was very nice and understanding, btw) that previous compensation comprised of intentionally-minuscule salary and startup equity with funny-money valuations would not be a good proxy for my value-add. Worked out fine.

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jtroyer 12y ago

Many times asking for your salary isn't a nefarious negotiating tactic - it's just to make sure both parties are in the same ballpark. If you're already at $110K and the opening tops out at $80K, there's no reason to waste either party's time.

maxerickson 12y ago
It is still a negotiating tactic as you describe it -- they are trying to avoid disclosing information.
rhizome 12y ago
If that was the case, why couldn't they say "This position tops out at $80K, will that be a problem?"
- lscore720 12y ago
  Recruiter here. Good question. In the majority of cases, I would say your approach would be just as effective. However, I prefer asking because: 1) It's about gaining intelligence - not in a nefarious way. If enough candidates at the right experience level are giving me a range of $90K - $100K and the client still won't budge beyond looking at candidates in the $60K - $80K range, I can eventually come back to them and say "Listen: of the last 10 candidates you liked, their salaries were..." A smart, reasonable client will make adjustments. 2) In rare cases: a "rockstar" candidate may be able to get 10% more than the budgeted amount, for example. So I would hate to send you that $80K tops message if there were potential for a perfect match. Then suddenly you're no longer interested and we missed a grand opportunity. Again, I agree with you for the most part. But ultimately, the recruiter figures: 99% of candidates give their salary number or a tight range, upfront, without issue, so there's no harm in asking for reasons 1 and 2.
  - rhizome 12y ago
    None of this makes perfect sense, and reads like just-so stories. On 1), you could just as easily say "of the 10 candidates you liked, 8 of them were still interested given the salary bracket." For 2), you could say "the job pays $X-Y, with flexibility on the top end if they really want you." It's interesting ("gaining intelligence") to read an account of recruiter allegiances, though.

rgovind 12y ago

1) recently, I had very good success with a professional social networking site in this matter. Recruiter asked what my current salary details are. I told me, "If I give you this information, what information will you give me". Initially he asked me to look in glassdoor but when I said he can also do the same thing, he relented and disclosed that salary for senior software engineer is minimum of $150k going to a maximum of $190k. I was happy with that information. Also, I discovered recently that companies cannot talk to one another about salaries, but they can all participate in a "survey" where the surveyor aggregates all this information, in a very detailed way. So, every company knows exactly what the other company is paying, even in a different industry. I guess that is another way of fixing price.

joshmn 12y ago

Recruiters on LinkedIn message me all the time. I come back with, "unless your client is looking to pay {double my current annual income is} + {25% bonus} I'm really not able to make that kind of transition in my life" (I would act as if that was my base) Didn't work a few times, which I was fine with as I didn't want to jump ship. I really just wanted to get off their list. Then, a few contacted me again a month later saying how they found me the perfect fit. Boy oh boy did they ever.

clamprecht 12y ago
I like this approach. A Smart Bear wrote about it on his blog once: http://blog.asmartbear.com/how-to-say-yes.html http://blog.asmartbear.com/how-to-say-yes.html

baby 12y ago

For my internship, I got asked on the phone how much the others were offering me. I first asked "if I tell you, will you lower your offer?". It got my interviewer a pretty good laugh and he told me that he wasn't that malicious. I told him what he wanted to hear and I think I got a fair offer anyway (which was like more than twice the best offer I had).

maaku 12y ago

I thank you for doing the right thing.

vladimirralev 12y ago

Just ask them what's the maximum they can pay.

hackerboos 12y ago

I've had recruiters do this (Explore LTD in London). The 'data collector' asked me my current salary and I refused to state it. She became very hostile saying "How are we meant to negotiate for you if you won't disclose what salary you are on?". I told her to let me negotiate my own salary.

dhimes 12y ago

I've heard of recruiters doing this with the sole purpose of discovering what their competitors are paying. Depending on how far along in the hiring process you were, it may be that she actually had no interest in hiring you but was simply polling for salary information.